# Mafia: Not-so-simple-Simpletown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 6, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592 "2009-03-06T22:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/441 "2009-03-18T02:58:59Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > _(Given that you’re clearly posting while under the influence):_ > > Hey, **peeker** , what role are you in this game? I know the rules about ‘scum would never do that’ but can you be more blatant about your fishing? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/442 "2009-03-18T03:46:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I know the rules about ‘scum would never do that’ but can you be more blatant about your fishing? Hmm…I thought he was hoping for the answer “I am scum”…but that interpretation makes more sense given the way he phrased the question… **Vote Straggler** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/443 "2009-03-18T04:06:36Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > Liar. > You only want discussion that you control you already have admitted that you vigged my ass in a previous game, not because I was scum, but because you didn’t like the way I posted and the ideas I suggested. (Emphasis added.) You are so so wrong! I vig’d you because you insisted on posting in a way that made it impossible for me to determine your alignment. I certainly didn’t vig you for your ideas, because I could not comprehend you. I didn’t know what your ideas were! You should note that I haven’t even complained about you this game because you have been (mostly) comprehensible. I specifically stated your posting style hadn’t risen to the level of anti-Town in this game. You seem to be carrying baggage from the past, and it’s not even the right baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Batman\_Jenkems](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Batman\_Jenkems](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batman_Jenkems)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/444 "2009-03-18T07:15:17Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Townies voting for themselves is anti-Town. Scum voting for themselves is pro-Town. Are you being pro- or anti-Town here? > > And, is there a rule that prevents us voting for ourself, or did you miss this vote Bleached. It was more of a joke than an actual vote. I was just admitting I was being stupid. I definitely had no intention of leaving a vote on myself. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Batman\_Jenkems](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Batman\_Jenkems](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batman_Jenkems)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/445 "2009-03-18T08:14:41Z")
FTR I don’t like the wording in that question either. It implies that I am either anti-town or scum with no other option. I thought it was pretty obvious that the vote was for dramatic effect and that it wasn’t serious. On a separate note I am wondering where **Paulwhoisaghost** went. I know certain people do not like to bring up previous games, but **Paul** is usually one of the most active players on the boards. I have never seen him miss a whole day IRL without posting. I don’t have any solid reasons for voting Paul or Pleonast yet, but I will point the FOS at them. I am going to put my vote on **Kittens** for now. I could see it as a newbie mistake for town to vote without stating your reasons, but seems more like a new scum trying to find a place to squeeze in a vote without drawing attention. That is not why I am voting though. I absolutely hate it when players try to hard to please everyone and be non confrontational. We need confrontation to find scum. The combination of trying to blend in by voting with everyone without reasoning and then backing off and voting even more cowardly so as not to offend anyone is why I am voting. \*\*Vote willthekittensurvive \*\* Sometimes you will offend people. Sometimes people will vote for you. Sometimes you will be lynched, but if you did your best to get the town as much information as possible then you played a good, pro-town game. Don’t try to hide and pretend to be helpless and try to please everyone because the only people who you are pleasing are the scum. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/446 "2009-03-18T10:39:19Z")
Oh boy, looks like I’m going down, If I’m making mistakes its mostly because this is my first game and I besides being a non-confrontational wimp, I underestimated the work going into analysing the mass of information generated by the other posters, and still haven’t found anything to base my vote on, If I saw another poster displaying my “cowardice” I would probably vote for him too. Still a day to go and who knows maybe I can actually find something worth voting against, and maybe I can actually convince you all that I’m not scum, Even If I’m not dont make though the day, I’ll keep reading the game to see if I can learn the tells…. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/447 "2009-03-18T10:40:23Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > Oh boy, looks like I’m going down, If I’m making mistakes its mostly because this is my first game and I besides being a non-confrontational wimp, I underestimated the work going into analysing the mass of information generated by the other posters, and still haven’t found anything to base my vote on, If I saw another poster displaying my “cowardice” I would probably vote for him too. > > Still a day to go and who knows maybe I can actually find something worth voting against, and maybe I can actually convince you all that I’m not scum, > > Even If I’m not dont make though the day, I’ll keep reading the game to see if I can learn the tells…. P.S I’m not scum ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/448 "2009-03-18T11:53:23Z")
Ya know, if you get lynched, **willthekittensurvive** , and you turn up scum, then good riddance 😉 But if you turn up townie, I’m going to be mighty p\*\*\*\*d that it was a pile-on that did you over. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/449 "2009-03-18T12:01:27Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > Ya know, if you get lynched, **willthekittensurvive** , and you turn up scum, then good riddance 😉 > > But if you turn up townie, I’m going to be mighty p\*\*\*\*d that it was a pile-on that did you over. What is your definition of a pile-on? Is it when a person gets more votes than someone else? because that’s how we lynch someone. So far, you’ve sat there, very accusatory, taunting people, placing smudges, like this one, and provided no real input for the Town to go on. I’m going to do a thorough re-read today after work. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/450 "2009-03-18T14:49:25Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > In other news. Regarding the willthekittensurvive votes. I agree her actions are completely anti town but it just feels like we’re kicking a, well a kitten. She may be scum I suppose but it feels more like a newbie wanting everyone to play nice. Remember it takes time to reach the level of downright nastiness most of us have got to. I agree, which is why I said I had to think on it, not as you suggest ‘walk away with my hands clean’. [QUOTE=straggler] Sitnam is the only one on my List of Suspicion who looks to be any chance of getting lynched. As for the other 3 on my list -\> tread carefully, this vote for Sitnam is yours to gain. vote Sitnam [/quote] You voted for me because I had a good chance of getting lynched. Please explain how this isn’t scummy. [QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] In a non-competitive, sit down and have some fun with my grandma game of monopoly? Yes I would. And if you don’t, I feel very sorry for you. I note you still haven’t really answered me. [/QUOTE] If I understand correctly what you’re asking is, ‘should I assume Mafia players aren’t cheating’. My answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/451 "2009-03-18T14:49:30Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Please show me a post where I said I was on a team with anyone. > > I argued along with a few players against **straggler** ’s strategy. Those players included **paul, bill, almost, pleo,** and **peeker**. > > because I responded to straggler’s comment to **paul** , people think I’ve aligned myself with **paul**. The only thing I’ll grant \*\*paul \*\*is that he’s correct in thinking **straggler** ’s strategy was very poor. > > Again, as the accusations continue, please show me where I aligned myself with paul. > > I think you got over zealous in pursuing this after **mental guy** and \*\*Adrian \*\*both actually said they were teamed up. There’s a difference between agreeing with someone and aligning yourself with someone. > > So, please present the evidence when you’re making this accusation. Well, like I said in my post when I list your name amongst the people who have teamed up I think you have previously explained that it wasn’t a true team and that you did just happen to agree on a single point – to the extent of answering for each other. I accept it and was mainly listing you other 4 for completeness. Its straggler that I was really looking for his reasons to not suspect. > [@straggler](#): > > Ya know, if you get lynched, **willthekittensurvive** , and you turn up scum, then good riddance 😉 > > But if you turn up townie, I’m going to be mighty p\*\*\*\*d that it was a pile-on that did you over. It’s possible that you’re just bugging me but this strikes me as one of those posts were a scum is taunting the town about getting ready to lynch a townie. Kitten keeps looking more and more like overwhelmed town but you on the other hand are seriously coming across, at the very least, anti-town. I know were building a head of steam towards Kitten but I think I’m going to switch over to you. **Unvote willthekittensurvive? Vote straggler** ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/452 "2009-03-18T14:54:33Z")
1 - [Undecided] Adrian (Natlaw) 1 - BillMC (Pleonast) 1 - Oredigger77 (Seeker of Truth and Beauty) 1 - Pleonast (peekercpa) 1 - Seeker of Truth and Beauty (Hero From Sector 7G) 3 - Sitnam (Nanook of the North Shore, Almost Human, straggler) 4 - willthekittensurvive? (special ed, [Undecided] Adrian, MentalGuy, Batman Jenkems) 1 - peekercpa (Sitnam) 3 - straggler (paulwhoisaghost, pedescribe, Oredigger77) 1 - No Lynch (willthekittensurvive?) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/453 "2009-03-18T14:59:23Z")
> [@rexnervous](#): > > THis is just a little condescending, but I get where you’re coming from. > > But don’t confuse people not voting with people not participating. Seems like a few of the people you listed are very active, and I don’t see how (unless they’re posting fluff) that doesn’t count. > > Simple fact is this week IRL is way busy for me. I was participating over the weekend on the whole MentalGuy alleged PIS, but just haven’t had time since then. And every time I look at this thread it’s like “whoa” - better not post w/o having seriously reviewed everything. Whatever it takes to get players to play. And I agree that players not voting and not participating are separate issues. But voting for whoever they think is Scum is still one of the duties of players, even if they are otherwise participating. And any player who has enough to time to comment on others, has enough time to place a vote. If a player has IRL issues preventing participation and voting, then they should be responsible enough to tell us. > [@Batman\_Jenkems](#): > > It was more of a joke than an actual vote. I was just admitting I was being stupid. I definitely had no intention of leaving a vote on myself. :smack: > [@Batman\_Jenkems](#): > > FTR I don’t like the wording in that question either. > It implies that I am either anti-town or scum with no other option. > I thought it was pretty obvious that the vote was for dramatic effect and that it wasn’t serious. I thought that it was obvious my either-or question was for dramatic effect, too. 😃 There’s no reason why you’d have to answer a leading question following its assumptions. The way you did answer it is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/454 "2009-03-18T15:35:37Z")
You know **straggler** , the more I think about it the more having a posted \*List of Suspicion \*and voting for whoever is closest to getting lynched bothers me. Essentially its a _List of People I Want to Smudge_ but your decision (and it’s consequences) are out of your hands because you joined the bandwagon while simultaneously being able to claim you didn’t jump on a bandwagon because you’ve posted your List before it started. Tonight I’m going to read the thread over again and make a final voting decision, but I’ll pay particular attention to you sir. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/455 "2009-03-18T17:28:27Z")
Sachertorte, in the rules you said “All votes must have a time stamp of Thursday, 3:59 PM ET or earlier.” I think this board is in Chicago, so that would make the cut off for our votes 2:59 PM, right? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/456 "2009-03-18T17:35:16Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Sachertorte, in the rules you said “All votes must have a time stamp of Thursday, 3:59 PM ET or earlier.” I think this board is in Chicago, so that would make the cut off for our votes 2:59 PM, right? What displays on your computer screen is user selected. If your profile is set to Central Time then you would need a time stamp of 2:59PM. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/457 "2009-03-18T17:35:58Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > Ya know, if you get lynched, **willthekittensurvive** , and you turn up scum, then good riddance 😉 > > But if you turn up townie, I’m going to be mighty p\*\*\*\*d that it was a pile-on that did you over. Straggler, I feel this may be partially directed at me since I may have appeared to be arguing against pile-ons earlier in the thread. First, I don’t know if the situation with kitten is an actual pile-on or simply people coming to their own conclusions based on their own reasoning and past experience . But I was not trying to argue that pile-ons are never justified, I just thought one was trying to get started against me for unjustified reasons. If my comment had been a more explicit PIS then a pile-on against me would have been entirely justified. I do not have much experience, but in the one game I have observed, someone that was acting somewhat like kitten turned out to be newbie scum and it was that more than anything that I based my vote on. I forgot to list you, Straggler, in my list of people I find suspicious. A lot of your posts and ideas seem to be anti-town, but they often also seem like an overconfident newbie. I do wonder if you might be trying to display confidence and a bit of bluster to keep people from thinking you are scum. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/458 "2009-03-18T20:05:51Z")
**Seeker of Truth and Beauty** will be replaced as soon as I can find a replacement. ---
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/459 "2009-03-18T20:40:53Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Since voting people for their ideas is a pet peeve of mine, I’m going to > **vote BillMC** > for now. Just re-reading this, fair enough that you voted for me for voting an idea, but I’m a little curious **Pleo** - why was **paulwhoisaghost** not on your list? He clearly states that it is the idea, and Straggler’s defense of the idea that he finds scummy. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I wasn’t going to vote for Straggler based on his ridiculous strategy idea, but I think I am gonna change my mind. > > His strategy us more beneficial to scum than town. It limits the ways that town can play. Anything that limits town’s ability to be creative in catching scum is bad. We are much better off attempting to catch scum through discussion over accusations and defenses than through who votes for who. Following his strategy does not eliminate that, but it does limit it. > > Aside from his strategy being bad, he has attempted to smudge Ed twice now simply for disagreeing with him. And his hyper defensive response to peoples reaction to his strategy seems odd when he could have just ditched the idea and shrugged it off as different play styles. Personally I find this behavior more suspicious than that of MentalGuy whom I would have otherwise considered voting. > > **VOTE STRAGGLER** That said, I still find **Straggler’s** behaviour anti-town - tho it may be just his style to be very defensive. His list of suspicion is questionable, and why does he find **Pleo** least suspicious? because Pleo effectively got a vote removed from Straggler? > [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > and seeing that mentalguy already has 3 votes, I’m adding the 4th > other then that I got nothing else to base my vote on… Out of all the WillTheKittenSurvive posts, this one narks me most, sticking a 4th vote on for the sake of it. Again, this could be the defensive, non-confrontational psyche that kitten is claiming. Meanwhile, on ESPN9 we have the ongoing match between **Sitnam** and **Straggler** > [@straggler](#): > > I don’t have a whole lot to add to the existing dicussions, although I am enjoying watching **Nanook** finally take a blowtorch to **Sitnam** , who is still scrubbing up far too clean for my liking. \*\*@Straggler:\*\*So essentially you are saying you are happy that **Nanook** cast the first stone, why didn’t you? but you join in third. > [@Sitnam](#): > > You know **straggler** , the more I think about it the more having a posted \*List of Suspicion \*and voting for whoever is closest to getting lynched bothers me. Essentially its a _List of People I Want to Smudge_ but your decision (and it’s consequences) are out of your hands because you joined the bandwagon while simultaneously being able to claim you didn’t jump on a bandwagon because you’ve posted your List before it started. > > Tonight I’m going to read the thread over again and make a final voting decision, but I’ll pay particular attention to you sir. With both **Staggler** and **Sitnam** sitting joint second, one vote behind **kitten** , this could be read as **Sitnam** paving the way to move his vote to **Straggler** making it a tie with **Kitten** Further contemplation after the next beer.. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/460 "2009-03-18T20:56:21Z")
We can’t expect **SoTB** ’s sub to explain/justify why **SoTB** was acting the way he did. That doesn’t mean we should give that behavior a free pass. I think there’s a good chance that **SoTB** was scum based on him lurking in plain sight, while misleadingly accusing **peekercpa** of doing the same thing. Additionally, his vote for **Oredigger77** was based on weak reasoning, the majority of which wasn’t even his own. I feel kind of guilty voting for someone who’s not here to defend himself, but nevertheless **Vote Seeker of Truth and Beauty** **Straggler** , please provide a clearer reason why you’re voting for **Sitnam**. The only explanation I’ve seen is that you tried to find arguments against him but couldn’t, so he looked too clean. But what made you focus specifically on **Sitnam**? Or did you look at everyone, and he was the only one who appeared too innocent? I hope I’m not misunderstanding again, but it seems like you’re hinting that you have a good reason for your vote, but you’re not willing to share it. That’s not helpful. I’ve mentioned town norms before, and if nothing else, I hope we can all come to an agreement that voting without a clear justification is unacceptable. Otherwise, we won’t be able to hold people accountable, thereby giving scum free reign. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=24)