# Mafia: Not-so-simple-Simpletown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 6, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592 "2009-03-06T22:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/481 "2009-03-19T02:06:51Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > Very early in the thread, I urged people to avoid pile-on voting. I watched what happened in the Split game, where an early pile-on very quickly resulted in a snowball lynching of an innocent townie. It was from this premise that I posited my wildly popular “hold off voting until the last 24 hours, and vote only for who you think is scum, and don’t change your vote” strategy. We all know how well that went down. > > While the strategy didn’t get any traction, I was still going to be wary of pile-ons, as it seems as though it’s the best way for scum to get the ball moving quickly against a townie. And indeed, if you read over the last 3 or so pages of this thread, I can identify 2 pile-ons. A clear one against **kitten** , and another one against me. For whatever reason, people love jumping on the bandwagon, probably for reasons of self-preservation. If they can keep the momentum going against someone else, then it won’t be coming for them. > > Given the effectiveness of pile-on voting, it seems an obvious way for scum to manipulate the game in their favour. So when **kitten** received 3 quick votes in a very short space of time, my scum detector went off and I “fine-tooth-combed” the whole incident. I refused to believe such an obvious pile-on could have happened without scummy influence. But who was it? I tried to put myself in the scum’s shoes. Would they want to be seen as starting the pile on? No, way too obvious. Would they want to be seen as finishing the pile-on (the 3rd vote)? It’s possible, because “scum would never do that”. But there was **Adrian** , right in the middle, ensuring a quick 2nd vote, and of course, delivered this line: > “That discussion on **MentalGuy** is over”, he casually informs us, just in case we still planned on voting for someone he didn’t want us to. He then quickly follows **special ed** with a follow-up vote for **kitten**. The trap being laid for the pile-on, in walked **Oredigger** for a quick 3rd vote, with a story (that I believed) about seeing something similar to what kitten did by a scum in another game. Before people had time to click “refresh” on their browsers, **kitten** had vaulted to the lynch lead. > > People would have known that I’d be sounding horns to any pile-ons, so any scum manipulation of one had to be very careful. And to me, it reeked of **Adrian’s** influence. I don’t see the votes for \*\*kitten \*\*as a pile-on (I think we more commonly use the term bandwagon) because \*\*kitten \*\*did something really scummy. And, as soon as (s)he did, there were votes. That seems more reasoned than scummy to me. The same holds true for the vote for you, **straggler**. See, the problem is, by calling it a pile-on, you’re effectively trying to stop people from voting for people who already have votes. That’s really unreasonable. Some people will and should get more votes than others. It’s natural when people do pro-scum things. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/482 "2009-03-19T02:08:21Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > I’m voting for the person I consider scummiest, which is the best use of my vote. I think **SoTB** is scum and I want him lynched. I too think his behavior was scummy, but **Seeker** hasn’t posted anything for over 48 hours. You’ve made other posts in that time but didn’t vote for him. The fact that you did so only after it was made clear he couldn’t respond doesn’t sit well with me. Letting players defend themselves is vital to the longevity of town for many reasons. You should know this. Why can’t lynching the replacement wait until tomorrow? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/483 "2009-03-19T02:11:07Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > I am simply trying to flush out the scum, by spraying my bullets as far and wide as I can. The term we often use for that is “flinging poo” and it’s a tried and true scum tactic. It’s anti-town because it’s really just trying to smudge as many people as you can without really backing it up. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/484 "2009-03-19T02:24:38Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > I am using the term “pile on” to mean a very quick succession of votes against the same person. Your logic is that pile ons are bad and that a pile on is a quick succession of votes against the same person. So if a scum slips up and says something stupid like “Hey guys I think we should target so-and-so with our Night Kill.” And subsequently half the town votes for that person, it would be a bad thing? Yeah that would be an exaggeration, but that is basically what happens. Someone sees something they think is scummy, they point it out and vote for the person, other people go “Oh hey your right, that is pretty scummy” and maybe add a point or two of their own, and then vote also. I’m not saying scum don’t hide votes in “pile-ons” or “dog piles” or “bandwagons”. I’m just saying that it doesn’t always have anything to do with the scum. I’ve seen them where there were no scum in a pile on until there were already 6 votes against the person. So basically being suspicious of people strictly for voting the same as other players is crap. Especially before the person they voted for gets lynched. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/485 "2009-03-19T02:26:40Z")
I’m concerned about our 2 newbies, \*\*straggler \*\*and **kitten**. My concern is that they are both engaged in anti-town and pro-scum behavior. I’m afraid that instead of being scum, they just might be playing poorly. If that’s true, we’ll waste 2 Days lynching them only to determine that they aren’t scum and have very little data since everyone will have voted for them for pro-town reasons. The real Scum can just sit back and watch as we do so, and participate as they see fit. I’m not sure we can avoid it as long as they keep playing so poorly. That said, I think it’s also entirely possible that one or both of them are newbie scum playing poorly because they didn’t realize the ramifications of their actions and were only trying to help their side win while trying to avoid suspicion. These are just comments and not accusations or defenses of anyone. I don’t know their alignment, I’m only pointing out one possibility. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/486 "2009-03-19T02:29:56Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > The term we often use for that is “flinging poo” and it’s a tried and true scum tactic. It’s anti-town because it’s really just trying to smudge as many people as you can without really backing it up. Yeah, no offense to anyone in particular, but I have seen a lot of newer players using this tactic. Whether they are scum or not doesn’t matter because it doesn’t really sway the town one way or the other. All it does is make people question your suspicions all the more. So in the end, if you are town, your only hurting the town because they have one lest person they feel they can rely on. It’s simple. If you accuse everyone, then of course you are gonna be right when some of those people are scum. Doesn’t mean you helped at all. ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/487 "2009-03-19T02:46:19Z")
Just updated this list to see where I’m at: 1 - Oredigger77 (Seeker of Truth and Beauty) 1 - Pleonast (peekercpa) 4 - Sitnam (Nanook of the North Shore, Almost Human, straggler, Natlaw) 4 - willthekittensurvive? (special ed, [Undecided] Adrian, MentalGuy, Batman Jenkems) 1 - peekercpa (Sitnam) 5 - straggler (paulwhoisaghost, pedescribe, Oredigger77, Pleonast, BillMC) 1 - No Lynch (willthekittensurvive?) 1 - ok11 (Hero From Sector 7G) ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/488 "2009-03-19T03:00:15Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > **Straggler** , please provide a clearer reason why you’re voting for **Sitnam**. The only explanation I’ve seen is that you tried to find arguments against him but couldn’t, so he looked too clean. But what made you focus specifically on **Sitnam**? Sorry, I missed this one. **Sitnam** stuck out because he’s playing the game exactly as I would if I were scum. Not too forward, not too backward, acting more as the conveyor of bad news rather than the source. It’s just too clean for me, and his subsequent reactions to the votes he’s getting are still right in line with how I’d be reacting if I were a scum in his shoes. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/489 "2009-03-19T03:01:03Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > _(Given that you’re clearly posting while under the influence):_ > > Hey, **peeker** , what role are you in this game? Uhm, nervously looks left and then right. No, I swear I was in Chicago. It twernt me, I swear. Oh, eff it, your withering logic has worn me down. You betcha I wanted to kill Horton. Who the who knew about the who? Cripes. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/490 "2009-03-19T03:36:24Z")
Ok, I’ve just gone and reread the entire thread. I really hope I get the coding right 'cause I’m not writing this again. **peekercpa** - Your posts still annoy the life out of me, but as has been pointed out by another, it would be unfair and unwise to lynch a person I didn’t highly suspect of being scum. **Nanook of the North Shore** - I believe we butted heads in the last Simpleton, there I was intentionally abrasive to get as much of a reaction out of as many as I could. While I think it was a successful strategy I went back and read it later and didn’t like how I sounded. This is supposed to be fun and pissing people off intentionally isn’t it. I suspect our ‘past’ convinced you that was the player you were responding to these past two pages. I don’t have a scum read on you yet. **Special ed** - [You declaring that a player isn’t looking for scum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10944669&postcount=369) is pretty ridiculous. Everyone does it in their own way, you don’t have to post to read. You’ve been on the soapbox early and often about every facet of scum strategy, perhaps to help town newbies, perhaps to paint in their minds your own innocence. I don’t have a good scum read on you yet either though. **Willthekittensurvive?** - You’re new and you messed up, whether or not that means you’re scum is hard to tell. I’m not convinced right now enough to vote for you, however, tomorrow is another day. **straggler** - Your ‘everyone vote in the last 24 hours and lynch anyone who changes it’ idea was anti-town, but posing a bad idea isn’t necessarily scummy. What began to bother me was that your posts are full of absurd flailing illustrated beautifully [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10940117&postcount=301), [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10943602&postcount=358) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10950517&postcount=474) which become all the clearer when called on it by [**Natlaw**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509422&page=9) and seem all the more ridiculous. Your [_List of Suspicion_](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10943602&postcount=358) also rubs me the wrong way and unlike you I’ll provide a explanation why. You didn’t show your work in how your suspects were selected. Though you suspected us you didn’t vote for anyone until last night and you voted for me only after two other people did. Making your list public in your mind absolves you of bandwagon guilt. If one of the people on your list gets close to a lynch you can say ‘he was on my list so it seems rational to help push the lynch’ which is exactly what you DID say, however, what you’re actually doing is surrendering your final judgment to a mob you can hide in. I have no idea why you think, if lynched, your vote is ‘100% authentic’ or even what that means. If you get lynched and turn up town, everyone here is responsible for their own vote and it apparently never occurred to you that a lynched townie can be wrong. Once again your logic is tragic but that doesn’t appear to stop your [random accusation generator](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10950849&postcount=488). I’m fully aware I’ll be accused of OMGUS voting, but I don’t care. **unvote peekercpa** **vote straggler** ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/491 "2009-03-19T03:41:47Z")
The **Natlaw** link was supposed to be to [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10946162&postcount=400) ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/492 "2009-03-19T13:09:43Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > I too think his behavior was scummy, but **Seeker** hasn’t posted anything for over 48 hours. You’ve made other posts in that time but didn’t vote for him. Here’s what I said in those other posts: > [@ok11; 10942342](#): > > I’m not switching my vote yet, because I’d like to see **SoTB** ’s response > [@ok11; 10947144](#): > > I was hoping **SoTB** would be back by now. I’ll wait a while longer for him to address my [post 330](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10942342&postcount=330), but it’s very likely that I’ll be voting for him toDay. Of course, I could have voted right away, waited for his response, and unvoted if it satisfied me. Instead, I chose to wait for a response and vote if I didn’t like it. I don’t think it matters that I chose the latter approach, because they accomplish the same thing. And yet you accuse me of not letting players defend themselves: > [@](#): > > Letting players defend themselves is vital to the longevity of town for many reasons. You should know this. Why can’t lynching the replacement wait until tomorrow? Guess what: **SoTB** can’t defend himself no matter how many Days I wait, because he’s not a part of the game anymore. The sub won’t be able to defend **SoTB** ’s behavior, because he doesn’t know what went through **SoTB** ’s head any more than the rest of us do. Hypothetically, what do you think the sub can say Tomorrow to make me less suspicious of the way **SoTB** acted toDay? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/493 "2009-03-19T13:17:18Z")
1 - Oredigger77 (Seeker of Truth and Beauty) 1 - Pleonast (peekercpa) 1 - Seeker of Truth and Beauty (ok11) 4 - Sitnam (Nanook of the North Shore, Almost Human, straggler, Natlaw) 4 - willthekittensurvive? (special ed, [Undecided] Adrian, MentalGuy, Batman Jenkems) 1 - ok11 (Hero From Sector 7G) 6 - **straggler** (paulwhoisaghost, pedescribe, Oredigger77, Pleonast, BillMC, Sitnam) 1 - No Lynch (willthekittensurvive?) ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/494 "2009-03-19T15:11:26Z")
_ **Final words?** _ Unfortunately those of us in different timezones won’t be awake for the lynching. I’m about to head to bed for the night, and I can see there’s a fair chance I’m not going to live through my sleep. In the event that this happens, some final words: I enjoyed playing my first Mafia online game. I’ll certainly be re-thinking my playing style for the next one. Whatever I did, I “looked scummy”, which is obviously not the way to play this game, regardless of role. Some final game-related stuff: I urge people to switch their vote over to **Sitnam**. I’m not scum. I’m not going to turn up as scum. There’s still time to make the switch, and I urge everyone who will listen to do it. He played the game exactly as I would have if I were scum, but ignore that -\> his case for scumminess is strong enough for 3 others, including experienced players, to vote for him as well. From my List of Suspicion, I actually place **special ed** at the top. Get the blowtorch on him. Why? Because _he spends a lot of his time swimming deep below the surface of the water, preferring to forage around on the river-bed with his wide bill_. He does occasionally need to surface for air though, and that’s when you can strike. I look forward to waking up tomorrow to the news that this tenacious scumbuster will live to fight another day. Go town! ---
**Author:** ![rexnervous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@rexnervous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rexnervous)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/495 "2009-03-19T16:21:03Z")
Guys and gals - I apologize but RL stuff has just consumed me this week (still), and since next week looks the same I feel it’s unfair to the game to keep a spot. I can barely keep up with the Werewolf game, and that’s a lot simpler than this one (and I’m more invested in it as it’s in Day 5. Of course, knowing my luck I’ll get killed toNight in that game). **Anyway, I am hereby requesting a sub** If a sub can’t be found, then I’ll do my best to keep up. Also feel due to this it would be unfair to place a vote. If people think otherwise, I can, but it won’t have much thought behind it. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/496 "2009-03-19T17:01:48Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > _ **Final words?** _ > From my List of Suspicion, I actually place **special ed** at the top. Get the blowtorch on him. Why? Because _he spends a lot of his time swimming deep below the surface of the water, preferring to forage around on the river-bed with his wide bill_. He does occasionally need to surface for air though, and that’s when you can strike. I really don’t know how to defend myself from such logic. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/497 "2009-03-19T17:25:47Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I really don’t know how to defend myself from such logic. Hey, the man thinks I’m scum because try as me might he couldn’t find anything scummy about me. On what planet does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/498 "2009-03-19T17:32:21Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Hey, the man thinks I’m scum because try as me might he couldn’t find anything scummy about me. On what planet does that make sense? That’s not entirely true. He claimed you were Scum because you didn’t do anything pro-scum, and if _HE_ we Scum, that’s exactly what he would do. Too bad he missed the memo that the opposite isn’t true. He seems to be claiming to be Town despite having done many scummy things. So, I think his accusation against you is that only Scum would avoid doing anti-town or pro-scum behaviors. As for me, I’m at the top of the list because I have a bill which I use to forage on the river bank whilst spending most of my time submerged. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/499 "2009-03-19T17:38:39Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > As for me, I’m at the top of the list because I have a bill which I use to forage on the river bank whilst spending most of my time submerged. So, you’re admitting it now! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/500 "2009-03-19T17:52:29Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > So, you’re admitting it now! 😃 Spring break starts today. How can I resist? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=26)