# Mafia: Not-so-simple-Simpletown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 6, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592 "2009-03-06T22:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/541 "2009-03-21T20:14:28Z")
Luck is an interesting concept. I’ve had terrible luck with a certain moderator’s game; and I’ve had wonderful luck with a different moderator’s game. I wish I could reciprocate that good luck, but I can’t. **Pleonast** , a werewolf, is dead. Day Two begins now. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/542 "2009-03-21T20:20:29Z")
Nanook of the North Shore Hero From Sector 7G [del]Pleonast[/del] **Werewolf** Seeker of Truth and Beauty Ichini Sanshigo pedescribe Sitnam rexnervous Mr. Svinlesha peekercpa special ed Natlaw [Undecided] Adrian willthekittensurvive? [del]straggler[/del] **Cabalist** Oredigger77 BillMC MentalGuy Almost Human paulwhoisaghost ok11 Batman Jenkems ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/543 "2009-03-21T20:58:48Z")
Wow, like **pedescribe** said: good, but weird. And Pleonast got again killed in the first Night :eek:. I looked up what a _Cabalist_ is and in a book written by our dear moderator it mentioned ‘_A Cabalist is a member of the Cabal faction_’. Browsing the book now to find out what exactly a werewolf is… Some notes can be found in the link in my signature as well. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/544 "2009-03-21T22:22:57Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Nice work catching scum(third party?) Do we know that cabalists are scum? aren’t cabalists some kind of magicians? that work in a group? and don’t werewolves get to kill at night? maybe they had a tie? ties are bad ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/545 "2009-03-21T22:25:19Z")
and natlaw thanks for the links! ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/546 "2009-03-21T23:44:17Z")
More experienced players might know exactly what is implied by “Cabalist” but I think the name definitely indicates a group of some sort. Cabal usually has a negative connotation, so I am guessing the faction is “anti-town” if not necessarily working with the scum, but I am less sure about that. With a werewolf being NK’ed, can we assume something went wrong for the scum? Might they have tried to night-kill a player with a special power that backfired on them? ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/547 "2009-03-22T00:25:01Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > and don’t werewolves get to kill at night? maybe they had a tie? > ties are bad _snort_ > [@MentalGuy](#): > > More experienced players might know exactly what is implied by “Cabalist” but I think the name definitely indicates a group of some sort. Cabal usually has a negative connotation, so I am guessing the faction is “anti-town” if not necessarily working with the scum, but I am less sure about that. > > With a werewolf being NK’ed, can we assume something went wrong for the scum? Might they have tried to night-kill a player with a special power that backfired on them? That’s a possibility. Is it likely that there’s a third night-acting faction or individual? We now know there’s at least three groups (Townspeople, Cabal, and Werewolves), so yet another group may be a bit unwieldy. Maybe it’s another individual, like a Vigilante or a Psychopath or something. In other news, I’ still reading through Day One, but I just about don’t know what to make of that mess. The scummiest person I could see was **straggler** , but he’s dead, so that’s fairly useless. I’m also suspicious of **Hero** for his vote against **Pleonast** for bad math skills, but that turned out to be pretty legit. I also have some other vague, weak suspicions (that keep switching as I read the thread), but I want to try to build a case that’s more concrete than plaster before I vote. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/548 "2009-03-22T00:36:36Z")
Who was it that had the conversation which assumed wolves? \*\*straggler \*\*and **mental guy**? could our Scum faction be a conglomeration of different bad guys? ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/549 "2009-03-22T01:32:17Z")
> [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](#): > > I’m also suspicious of **Hero** for his vote against **Pleonast** for bad math skills, but that turned out to be pretty legit. Wait what? Bad math skills? Over and over I said I thought he made a slip somewhere. The 7 lynch number came out of no-where, and than he used the wrong formula to cover. It wasn’t that he didn’t know how to add 1 and 1, it was that by his own logic he should have come to different conclusions. I still don’t think 7 was a true mistake; Pleo was using different numbers to get there and backpedaled when it would indicate he had extra information. Why are you smudging me over this? I thought it was a good catch. Vote Ichini I was suspicious of Seeker yesterday and moved my vote off because I think voting for players who aren’t present is a lousy thing to do (both for the game and courtesy). ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/550 "2009-03-22T01:46:50Z")
Okay so I phrased that wrong. I was thinking “bad math skills” because upon first reading it, I thought his “slip” may have been legitimate. “Bad math skills” was a bad phrase, okay? And I hardly think that counts as a smudge. I was giving my impressions of the first day, and I admitted they were pretty weak and that I’d be back with a more considered response and and vote. Or did you just not read the rest of my post? You’re awfully quick to vote for me for expressing my (so-far) weak-assed observations. Or are you just trying to intimidate me into SingTFU? ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/551 "2009-03-22T02:49:45Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > could our Scum faction be a conglomeration of different bad guys? That’s what I thought as well when I saw that we’ve got a Cabalist and a Werewolf, but the following makes me think otherwise: > [@Natlaw](#): > > I looked up what a _Cabalist_ is and in a book written by our dear moderator it mentioned _'A Cabalist is a member of the Cabal faction_’. Where did you read this? A faction would imply more than one, right? If the Cabal is a faction, then we’re either dealing with two scummy factions, or **straggler** was a PFK. **Hero** , now that we know that **Pleo** was anti-town, could you elaborate on the game setup you mentioned in [post 258](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10939073&postcount=258)? It looks like you were right. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/552 "2009-03-22T02:59:57Z")
Feelin’ you out, bro. I thought Seeker was sketchy, so you’re gonna take his heat for a minute. > [@Ichini Sanshaigo](#): > > Or did you just not read the rest of my post? Dude, your post says you think **Straggler** was scummiest, than you drop a suspicioun bomb on me. Clearly something was going on in your head and it was important enough to mention _only me_. > [@](#): > > And I hardly think that counts as a smudge. Words can be twisted, votes can’t. A smudge is a statement of scummy implication that you don’t have to be held accountable for. > [@](#): > > You’re awfully quick to vote for me for expressing my (so-far) weak-assed observations. Or are you just trying to intimidate me into SingTFU? No, I’m putting my vote where my mouth is. There is no ambiguity about it. If I hadn’t voted I could come back in the next post and go “Oh Ichy, why are you reacting like that? What I really meant was blah blah blah.” Personally I feel that using your vote to echo your words is less confusing in the long run and more fair to the people you are talking about. You know exactly where we stand. But still, I am curious about why you chose “intimidating.” Do I intimidate you? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/553 "2009-03-22T03:10:29Z")
Bwahahaha! I obviously need to try harder in the future to get lynched, because I certainly don’t survive Nights. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/554 "2009-03-22T03:18:02Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > **Hero** , now that we know that **Pleo** was anti-town, could you elaborate on the game setup you mentioned in [post 258](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10939073&postcount=258)? It looks like you were right. Just so we are clear, I said the following > [@Hero](#): > > I can imagine a game setup that has three scum, a third party, and 7 mislynches. 7 mislynches would mean 6 surviving players. There are a ton of ways the game could go on: a town aligned serial killer, i town aligned power that reflects, a non-scum faction with a specific victory condition. I wish I could see the look on **Pleo’s** face when he read the death report. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/555 "2009-03-22T03:24:03Z")
Thanks. Not-so-simple, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/556 "2009-03-22T08:15:59Z")
So: 1. Do we know what a Cabalist is yet? Is there only one, or are there more? A cabal usually suggests a conspiracy of more than one person, but ok11 mentions in her post that **straggler** might have been PFK. A PFK usually works alone, is that right? What book are you referring to, **Natlaw**? 1. Any explanation of how in hell a werewolf ended up dead this morning? ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/557 "2009-03-22T09:09:21Z")
[quote=“Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G, post:552, topic:488592”] Feelin’ you out, bro. I thought Seeker was sketchy, so you’re gonna take his heat for a minute.Dude, your post says you think **Straggler** was scummiest, than you drop a suspicioun bomb on me. Clearly something was going on in your head and it was important enough to mention _only me_. [.quote] May I direct your attention to my post: > [@me](#): > > In other news, **I’ still reading through Day One** , but I just about don’t know what to make of that mess. The scummiest person I could see was straggler, but he’s dead, so that’s fairly useless. I’m also suspicious of Hero for his vote against Pleonast for bad math skills, **but that turned out to be pretty legit**. Bolding by me. I was jotting down my impressions of the first day as I was reading through the thread. At page 7, **Straggler** looked scummy, and so did you. If it was still Day One and I was playing, I would have voted you or **straggler.** But it’s not Day One, and my impressions of your interaction with **Pleonast** changed, so a vote for you on Day Two, for an expired opinion, would be fairly stupid. That’s why I didn’t vote for you in my post. I thought that could be pretty much implied from the bolded parts, but apparently I need to spell things out in detail. > [@](#): > > But still, I am curious about why you chose “intimidating.” Do I intimidate you? _snort_ No. Annoy, maybe. You have (re)raised my interest. I make one post and you start leaning on me like I’m a lightpost at the bus stop (was that clever? No? Okay, sorry). Maybe you’re just trying to get convo started on Day 2, and that’s cool. But your basis for voting for me (leftover suspicion from **Seeker** and a misreading of my post), was pretty weak. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/558 "2009-03-22T09:51:26Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > What book are you referring to, **Natlaw**? > > 1. Any explanation of how in hell a werewolf ended up dead this morning? The book is called ‘_The laws and history of Simpletown_’, subtitled ‘_With questions answered by sachertorte_’. Relevant excerpt about how to contact the author: > [@sachertorte](#): > > The moderator encourages questions to the moderator to be sent via PM. Anyway, I turned the page and read ‘_A werewolf is a member of the Wolf faction_’ and my further inquiries where redirected back to an earlier chapter, specifically: > [@](#): > > Win Condition: > Individual win conditions will not change during the course of the game. Your team wins when all threats to your team are neutralized. So that means we got (at least) three factions: Town, Cabal and Wolf. Downside (with balanced teams): simple odds to win is only one third, compared to fifty-fifty with two. Upside: my guess is that the Cabal killed **Pleonast** and either the Wolves can’t, didn’t or failed to kill. Maybe our moderator was being cryptic and Pleonast was a lone wolf? That would mean he mostly likely was a Serial Killer but we didn’t have a second death. **straggler** as PFK makes even less sense, since he was dead Night One and then who _did_ kill the werewolf? ---
**Author:** ![\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/eada6e/32.png) [@\_Undecided\_Adrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Undecided_Adrian)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/559 "2009-03-22T11:07:19Z")
Several thoughts about the werewolf/cabalist roles follow, but first a question: With several scum factions, how is a nightkill normally decided? Do they not get one each? One of the options randomly chosen? Each scum player votes and the majority wins? Anyway, this is only my second online game and I’m not familiar with the various roles, but based on the [flash role overview](http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf) these are my speculations: The name cabalist suggests _cult_ to me. But in that case **straggler** would have been alone the first day and the cabalists would be extinct. This would only fit with the werewolf nightkill if there was a combination of doctor protection and vigilante kill Tonight, however, or with a townie power role where his attacker dies instead. I didn’t find a role with that description, though, Elite Bodyguard is close but not it. One far-out thought: Perhaps the cabalists are normal scum and the werewolves were a cult? **sachertorte** might be having fun with the naming. Not sure if in this case **Pleonast** would have recruited somebody before his death. But the most likely explanation are two regular scum factions, I think. Especially if the win condition **Natlaw** quoted precludes recruiting (I’m not sure if it does, don’t want to make definite statements about moderator wording 🙂 ) How would that play out numbers-wise? With 20 Players, 3 scum each, probably? NETA: If the scum majority nightkill idea and my number estimate are correct, that would mean that the three wolves had spread their votes out and the two remaining cabalists voted for the same person. Very unlikely for the wolves to do that. Or there was a tie, as **willthekittensurvive** suggested, ties are bad. But why didn’t the wolves vote unanimously then? ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/560 "2009-03-22T13:24:40Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > A cabal usually suggests a conspiracy of more than one person, but ok11 mentions in her post that **straggler** might have been PFK. Oops, I meant to say that the werewolf might have been a PFK, not the Cabalist. But now **Natlaw** says that a werewolf is a member of a faction, too. So it’s much likelier that we’re dealing with two factions. Also, just to be on the safe side, **What is a Cabalist? What is a Werewolf?** Sorry **sachertorte** for not sending this via PM, but I want everyone to see the answer in the off chance that there’s any discrepancy with what **Natlaw** posted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=29)