# Mafia: Not-so-simple-Simpletown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 6, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592 "2009-03-06T22:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Batman\_Jenkems](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Batman\_Jenkems](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batman_Jenkems)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/581 "2009-03-22T20:18:54Z")
I apologize everyone. **Request Sub** I have to leave for a week and I won’t have internet access. Sorry about the inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/582 "2009-03-22T20:41:13Z")
Can someone provide a synopsis of conspiracy? Were all the scum factions capable of killing? because malignant survivor sounds almost 3rd party-ish and what of the undead? Why did they need zombies? and how did they get them? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/583 "2009-03-22T21:55:28Z")
In both and original and sequel, the Werewolves could kill. In the original, the Cabal could not kill. In the sequel, they had a one shot kill that could not be blocked. In both the original and sequel, there were two parts to the Undead. There was one or more Vampires, which were basically SKs. Then there was a Necromancer, which could not kill but could raise any dead people into zombies. The zombies did nothing on their own, but counted towards the undead win condition. The Undead won as a team when the number of Vampires+Necromancers+raised zombies equaled a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/584 "2009-03-23T09:43:05Z")
Morning. Forgot it was Mother’s Day weekend in the UK so I’ve had to spend the last two days being maternal - ugh! Conspiracy was before my time so I can’t really add anything to that conversation. It certainly seems we have at least two other factions at least one of which can kill. I have no problem with people speculating what’s possible but I don’t think we’ll have much of a clear idea till another Day or two has passed. In the meantime I’ll make a proper post and hopefully a vote after work. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/585 "2009-03-23T15:51:06Z")
All right the first two kills are of non-town aligned factions. Knowing that Pleo was scum I think that his number of 7 mislynches might have been reflective of the wolf faction. With 20 players 7 mislynches would give us 2 wolves, I think that with two factions this might be a reasonable number or Pleo was trying to mislead us as I originally suspected and there are 3… As for a reason for the number of kills I think that it is likely, based on the conspiracy games mentioned, that the cabal can’t kill. So that means that wolf kill was redirected because I doubt they would target their own. I don’t have much else to add except I think that kitten’s action yesterday still ring false to me so I’ll start off the Day with a vote that direction. **Vote Kitten** ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/586 "2009-03-23T16:30:39Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > If both have a kill then one could have been blocked. Alternatively, both could have targeted **Pleo**. Wait… What? Pleo was revealed as Werewolf when he died. So why would both factions have targeted him? That makes no sense. Hmmm… Actually, if Pleo was a death miller it would make sense. But I’m not sure I buy off on Pleo being a death miller. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/587 "2009-03-23T18:41:24Z")
**Sitnam** : > [@](#): > > \*This is what I thought at first, sachertorte said repeatedly ‘ties are bad’, but I also thought the rule was the second victim that made the tie was the one killed, not the voter (this all assumes it was the werewolves voting here). The problem is either the werewolves were the ones voting and the person they picked had an incredible power or this was just some rookie snafu. \* Can you try to reparse this paragraph? I don’t understand it. > [@](#): > > _Not being able to be night killed and then killing one of the people who voted for you seems way too powerful, and I seriously doubt that they couldn’t reach some kind of agreement._ What about a Paranoid Gun Owner? **Paulwhoisaghost** : If Pleo had been a “death miller,” that would have been revealed on his death, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/588 "2009-03-23T19:52:31Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Wait… What? Pleo was revealed as Werewolf when he died. So why would both factions have targeted him? That makes no sense. Hmmm… Actually, if Pleo was a death miller it would make sense. But I’m not sure I buy off on Pleo being a death miller. Only the most evil mods use Death Millers, it’s an inherently dangerous role since it requires the mod to lie to everyone. I highly doubt that’s what happened. I’m guessing the Wolves targeted the Magician\* equivalent, and he or she got lucky and reflected it right back. \*The magician (in Conspiracy, natch) could redirect any kill attempt on them onto the player of their choice. It only worked once. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/589 "2009-03-23T19:53:17Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > Can you try to reparse this paragraph? I don’t understand it. I was trying to determine why a wolf was killed at night. **MentalGuy** raised the two possibilities of being either **sachertorte** ’s rules killing wolf voters who messed up, or the person they chose had a reactionary power. I guess a Paranoid Gun Owner could be possible, I just never heard of it before. I don’t know if I can restate the beginning part of what you quoted any clearer that this: The scenario **MentalGuy** proposed was: Victim A gets votes from Wolf 1, Wolf 2 Victim B then gets votes from Wolf 3, Wolf 4 Wolf 4 created the tie and therefore is killed. I understood the rules being: Vitim A gets votes from Wolf 1, Wolf 2 Victim B then gets votes from Wolf 3, Wolf 4 Therefore, Victim B gets killed. If I’m wrong I’d like to know. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/590 "2009-03-23T19:57:29Z")
I guess I am wrong > [@sachertorte](#): > > Ties are bad. Don’t do them. > **Ties will be resolved by random lynch.** The lynched player will belong to the set of voters who created the tie. > Ties are bad. Don’t do them. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/591 "2009-03-23T20:00:11Z")
I’m still have a hard time believing the wolves couldn’t sort out who they wanted killed. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/592 "2009-03-23T20:17:15Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > I’m guessing the Wolves targeted the Magician\* equivalent, and he or she got lucky and reflected it right back. > > \*The magician (in Conspiracy, natch) could redirect any kill attempt on them onto the player of their choice. It only worked once. It really could have been any type of redirecting role that got the kill redirected to **Pleo** or the cabalists could have the killing power and not the wolves. Or they both could and the wolves was unsuccessful because of a protection or a block. or some combination, thereof. Or even a SK or a Vig kill. or probably something else I’m not thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/593 "2009-03-23T20:31:36Z")
Looking at the votes from Yesterday: **Pleonast** : (Hero), (Orediggerx2), peekercpa. It did remind me of the situation in _Evil Dead_ were a mason Pleonast voted a fellow mason pedescribe for making a slip (he ‘slipped’ he had a cool role PM). I don’t think that is the case here, especially not the re-vote by **Oredigger**. **peekercpa** placed his vote after all others unvoted, so if werewolf no danger of lynching a team mate. Pleonast himself voted **BillMC** and **straggler**. In brackets the vote totals between straggler, kitten and Sitnam: **straggler** : paul (1-0-0) Followed with three votes for kitten: **kitten** : special ed, Adrian, Oredigger (1-3-0) Followed by three votes for Sitnam: **Sitnam** : Nanook, Almost Human, straggler (1-3-3) A bit later it had switched to 4-4-3: **straggler** : paul, pedescribe, Oredigger, Pleonast **kitten** : special ed, Adrian, MentalGuy, Jenkems **Sitnam** : Nanook, Almost Human, straggler I ( **Natlaw** ) voted Sitnam and made it 4-4-4, then BillMC re-voted and Sitnam voted straggler to 6-4-4. How much the Cabal could have done to try and save straggler? Were there more wolves voting for him? It depends on how many of them there are and another complicating factor is that **Seeker/Ichini** and **rexnervous/Svinlesha** couldn’t/didn’t vote. Also if the Cabal were already split over kitten and Sitnam, they might not thought it wise to vote earlier together. Tentative conclusion is that **paul, pedescribe, Oredigger and BillMC** are probably not Cabal. **Sitnam** s vote was the last of the Day, so if Cabal he couldn’t stop the lynch (but it was pretty [well reasoned](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10950960&postcount=490)). **straggler** also pushed Sitnam to three votes from 1 straggler - 3 kitten - 2 Sitnam. So that puts Sitnam also on the probably-not-Cabal list for now. They could all still be wolves though :(. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/594 "2009-03-23T20:31:45Z")
**Sitnam:** > [@](#): > > Lynches will be by plurality. The leading vote-getter at 4:00PM ET on Thursday will die. > Ties are bad. Don’t do them. > **Ties will be resolved by random lynch**. The lynched player will belong to the \*\*set of voters \*\*who created the tie. > Ties are bad. Don’t do them You wrote: > [@](#): > > _The problem is either the werewolves were the ones voting and the person they picked had an incredible power or this was just some rookie snafu._ What do you mean by “rookie snafu”? How could this outcome, i.e., a dead werewolf at dawn, be explained as a rookie snafu? > [@](#): > > _I strongly doubt **Pleonast** was a lone wolf, this game started with 20 people and to me two anti-town factions seems the most likely. However, having a Cabal kill and a lone wolf kill would offset the large amount of townies…_ What makes you think there are a “large amount of townies”? What do you know about the ratio of townies to scum? > [@](#): > > \ ***MentalGuy** raised the two possibilities of being either **sachertorte’s** rules killing wolf voters who messed up, or the person they chose had a reactionary power. \* I don’t understand. As far as I can see, **MG** only suggested the possibility that the wolves had tried to NK a player and it had backfired on them. Here’s the post again in full: > [@](#): > > \*More experienced players might know exactly what is implied by “Cabalist” but I think the name definitely indicates a group of some sort. Cabal usually has a negative connotation, so I am guessing the faction is “anti-town” if not necessarily working with the scum, but I am less sure about that. > > With a werewolf being NK’ed, can we assume something went wrong for the scum? Might they have tried to night-kill a player with a special power that backfired on them?\* I find no suggestion of the possibility of a vote tie in that post. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/595 "2009-03-23T20:33:38Z")
You know what? Unless someone wants to claim(And you probably shouldn’t unless you have an amazing reason for doing so that I can’t think of), it doesn’t really matter what caused Pleo to die. We’re getting distracted, and I’m a little suspicious of the amount of time we’re spending on this. It’s an easy topic for scum to hide in and keep the town from doing what they should be. I’m not going to vote for Sitnam again. This is because it seems to me that he has backed off the stance that led me to vote for him. Instead, I’m going to vote for someone that does not appear to be doing ANYTHING to help us find scum. **vote willthekittensurvive?** I understand you’re new, but as of right now your actions are more consistent with a new scum player trying to avoid drawing heat than a new town player not wanting to die. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/596 "2009-03-23T20:47:25Z")
A slow NETA: I got **BillMC** ’s vote/unvote not entirely clear. **straggler** : BillMC, paul (2-0-0) and unvoted at 2 straggler - 3 kitten - 3 Sitnam. Still probably-not-Cabal for pushing a Cabalist above the tie. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/597 "2009-03-23T21:03:15Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > \*\*Sitnam:\*\*What do you mean by “rookie snafu”? How could this outcome, i.e., a dead werewolf at dawn, be explained as a rookie snafu? Getting one of your own killed because you couldn’t agree on who to night kill is really stupid play, or more politely ‘rookie snafu’. > [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > What makes you think there are a “large amount of townies”? What do you know about the ratio of townies to scum? I was exploring the possibility that [**sachertorte** ’s lament](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10959729&postcount=541) was an indication this game has gone awry, since two anti-town people died the first night the smart money is on it going awry for pro-town’s advantage. You don’t have to agree, that’s just what I was kicking up. > [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > I don’t understand. As far as I can see, **MG** only suggested the possibility that the wolves had tried to NK a player and it had backfired on them. Here’s the post again in full:…I find no suggestion of the possibility of a vote tie in that post. You’re right it was [**willthekittensurvive?**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10959946&postcount=544) who said it. That’s what I get for coding 4 people in one post. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/598 "2009-03-23T21:17:18Z")
So much talk… so little help in finding scum… I need a vote count please Sach. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/599 "2009-03-23T21:33:49Z")
1 - Ichini Sanshigo (Hero From Sector 7G) 2 - willthekittensurvive? (Oredigger77, Nanook of the North Shore) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592/600 "2009-03-23T21:34:09Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > So much talk… so little help in finding scum. By all means, show us how it’s done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-not-so-simple-simpletown/488592.md?page=31)