# Mafia Reunion Day 12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [March 26, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100 "2017-03-26T21:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/21 "2017-03-27T04:19:30Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > **Some players may not be aware that Day 12 has started and that it has been shortened, so consider notifying the absent players** I am here and paying attention. I am surprised Mafia didn’t kill me or Koldanar for not unvoting Texy Yesterday 😛 ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/22 "2017-03-27T04:29:12Z")
I am aware of the change in day. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/23 "2017-03-27T04:36:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > But… there are four cultists+mafia remaining. This rule negates the town number advantage, doesn’t it? If cult wants to take mafia up on their offer, all they have to do is place four hammer votes before town is able to place four hammer votes. That just turns it into a game of “who logs on first.” And how would LUTHA know which is the fake Patsy? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/24 "2017-03-27T04:39:15Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > And how would LUTHA know which is the fake Patsy? I was wondering the same thing, actually. They are supposed to have their votes on a town, right? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/25 "2017-03-27T04:48:26Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I was wondering the same thing, actually. They are supposed to have their votes on a town, right? Right. It makes no sense. How is LUTHA supposed to coordinate with Mafia against Town if they don’t know who is Mafia? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/26 "2017-03-27T05:35:55Z")
I think it was a bs ploy to get me and Koldanar to unvote Texy and vote??? I gotta tell ya I have been pretty upset with folks who wanted to kill us off from day one. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/27 "2017-03-27T06:45:27Z")
I don’t think so. I do think mafia has been planning this for a while, and she said whatever patsy candidate is lynched koldanar needs to redirect the killing power. But if he doesn’t, that leaves…one mafia left, right? If either the real patsy is lynched and not redirected, they will take out the false claimant. If the false patsy is lynched today, then even if Koldenar does use the redirect it won’t matter. Still down to one left. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/28 "2017-03-27T08:25:06Z")
Hey guys. Still here. I’m reading the last couple of Days, trying to get my head around Hawkeyeop and Scathach. I agree with Johnny Bravo, in that I believe Biotop is the final scum. Of Hawkeyeop and Scathach, I’m still undecided, but I’m actually leaning to Scathach being town. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/29 "2017-03-27T11:06:59Z")
[QUOTE=Biotop] And how would LUTHA know which is the fake Patsy? [/QUOTE] If mafia+cult were able to force a vote on a non-patsy townie today, the game is over. So in a scenario with a hammer, one of two things could happen. 1. One of the mafia shows up and says “hi LUTHA, I’m the mafia. It’s time to win.” The mafia puts a hammer vote on Klutz. Both LUTHA follow. The last mafia finishes it. Unless town manages to put down four hammer votes before this happens, the game ends. 2. Both LUTHA say “hi mafia, let’s win the game now.” They put hammer votes on Klutz. Again, town has to place four quick hammer votes before mafia logs in to do it. If town fails, the game ends. This is a bad way for the game to end, and this is why I argued against it. I would imagine/hope that everyone would feel similarly. It’s certainly not the plan that mafia had in mind when Texcat posted yesterday, since they didn’t know about the hammer rule then. But it’s a very logical extension of a hammer rule that only requires four out of nine votes. Your failure to see stuff like this continues to suspiciousfy me towards you. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/30 "2017-03-27T11:09:41Z")
Reposting from yesterday: I currently think Biotop is the mafia hidden among the vanilla townies. He’s been pinging me for a little while now. He was talking earlier about how town had the game locked up, which at the time struck me as… overly optimistic. But this really bugged me: > [@Biotop](#): > > Johnny Bravo, I do not understand why Lutha would side with Mafia. They do not have to side with anyone. They just need to live. For about the first time, I’m going to throw down some meta analysis. Biotop was a wolf in the first (and only) game of Mafia I’ve run here, and I was very entertained watching him in the wolf thread. I was entertained because Biotop is a thinker. He thinks through everything - hypotheticals, convoluted plans, you name it. Even high-risk stuff like one scum trying to get the only other remaining scum lynched. He thinks. He considers. We’ve hashed to death why the cult might be dangerous to town in certain situations. Biotop’s ‘confusion’ strikes me as very much not genuine Biotop. Not even a little bit. And if the wolves had already been planning this cultist gambit, this is the kind of thing that would have been on his mind. I think this comment is a slip. A big one. “They don’t have to side with anyone. **They just need to live.** ” Well, now they have to do both. Coincidental, huh? > [@Biotop](#): > > However, unless I am dead, if TexCat flips Town I will be voting for you toMorrow. I called him out for the wording on this earlier, but I don’t like anything about it. Biotop knew that Texcat wouldn’t flip town. He voted her very early in the day, but Texcat was the presumptive lynch regardless. I’ve taken some preliminary looks back at the voting record at Biotop appears to have placed his votes in a manner that you’d expect for a wolf. He was rarely clumped up with them and never mirrored a wolf’s vote. There’s more to go over, but we’re just about at EoD. I’ll keep looking later. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/31 "2017-03-27T11:32:46Z")
I have a bunch of thoughts, but first I do want to hear **Scathach’s** thoughts on the game. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/32 "2017-03-27T11:49:43Z")
> [@Mafia Reunion: Day Eleven](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/103): > > **Attention LUTHA!** > > **Koldanar and Sinjin** , > Town is willing to leave you the hell alone, but the mafia is not. They have shown that in the past. You are a false cult. You have been playing for Town all game. You need to either play for mafia now or they will kill you all in a final act of revenge. Follow my instructions or prepare to die and lose. This is not an idle threat. The mafia will take you out. You cannot win with town. > > I expect both of you to have your votes on a townie for the rest of the game. > > **Koldanar** , You are a redirector. Whichever Patsy is about to be lynched toMorrow, you need to redirect their killing power onto a confirmed townie. > > There are 6 townies now alive. We will kill one tonight. If we lynch the Patsy and her kill is re-directed onto a town, we’re down to only 3 townies. We will kill another townie night 12. That puts us at Day 13 at 2-2-2. We can lynch a townie and then night kill the last one for a win for both of us. > > On the other hand, if a mafia member is lynched tomorrow, I can guarantee that the next night kills will be LUTHA. Mafia will get their revenge on you. This is an offer that you cannot refuse. Meh. Johnny, I’ve told you since the start that I don’t see that happening. I’m sticking by my guns - if I lose as LUTHA because the mafia is vindictive, then so be it - they still lose too. It’s the final cry of a dying breed, here. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/33 "2017-03-27T11:56:43Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > **For now, cancel the Hammer. We are re-thinking it as a team of moderators.** Does this cancel the HAMMER vote, or does it also cancel the 60% hammer threshold? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/34 "2017-03-27T12:00:05Z")
> [@Koldanar](#): > > Does this cancel the HAMMER vote, or does it also cancel the 60% hammer threshold? Just the hammer vote. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/35 "2017-03-27T12:03:24Z")
The offer that " can’t be refused": If we lynch the Patsy and her kill is re-directed onto a town, we’re down to only 3 townies. The patsy is a her? Hawkeyeop, i don’t know about, but i am pretty sure Scathach is a her. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/36 "2017-03-27T12:05:11Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > The offer that " can’t be refused": > > If we lynch the Patsy and her kill is re-directed onto a town, we’re down to only 3 townies. > > The patsy is a her? Hawkeyeop, i don’t know about, but i am pretty sure Scathach is a her. TexCat has been saying “her” all game, hasn’t she? Someone posted a quote yesterday from her back on day 1, or something early - an interaction with Guiri about this. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/37 "2017-03-27T12:53:57Z")
Ahh ok. I just noticed she said they earlier In the post and then her. But if she has been doing it all game nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/38 "2017-03-27T13:00:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > If mafia+cult were able to force a vote on a non-patsy townie today, the game is over. > > So in a scenario with a hammer, one of two things could happen. > > 1. One of the mafia shows up and says “hi LUTHA, I’m the mafia. It’s time to win.” The mafia puts a hammer vote on Klutz. Both LUTHA follow. The last mafia finishes it. Unless town manages to put down four hammer votes before this happens, the game ends. > > 2. Both LUTHA say “hi mafia, let’s win the game now.” They put hammer votes on Klutz. Again, town has to place four quick hammer votes before mafia logs in to do it. If town fails, the game ends. > > This is a bad way for the game to end, and this is why I argued against it. I would imagine/hope that everyone would feel similarly. It’s certainly not the plan that mafia had in mind when Texcat posted yesterday, since they didn’t know about the hammer rule then. But it’s a very logical extension of a hammer rule that only requires four out of nine votes. > > Your failure to see stuff like this continues to suspiciousfy me towards you. “Suspiciousfy?” Both you, \*\*JB \*\* and earlier **plumpudding** , seem to want to put blame on me for meta reasons. I have been scheming Scum in another game so I must be scheming Scum in this one. I have a record of nearly 3 months here in this game. I cannot defend myself in other games, but I can in this one. Other than not for seeing Mafia’s plot to compel Lutha to vote their way, which I acknowledge I did not, what else is the case against me? Please note I work long days both today and Tuesday so I probably will not be home until late. This makes it hard for me to respond right away, much less join Lutha in any sneaky plots. But how’s this for a scheme: **Koldanar** , please direct the Patsy kill onto me. If I am Scum then you kill me before Mafia can determine you did not help them. Town kills the false Patsy the next Day. Town and LUTHA win. I am Town however, so if you are going to help LUTHA, my death should satisfy you and Mafia in your quest for numbers. \*\*Captain Klutz \*\*has played a better game than I have anyway. The weird thing is that \*\*Johnny Bravo \*\*and \*\*plumpudding \*\* cannot both be Scum, but I am fairly sure one of them must be. Which one? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/39 "2017-03-27T15:17:20Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I have been scheming Scum in another game so I must be scheming Scum in this one. Nope. That’s not at all what I said. What I said is that I know you to be a clever and thoughtful player who thinks through many different scenarios and outcomes for any given situation. That’s why I don’t buy your confusion. Raventhief? I buy his confusion. He’s been screaming “clueless newbie” all game long (raventhief, if you’re the hidden mafioso then well done). See below for another example of that: > [@Biotop](#): > > **Koldanar** , please direct the Patsy kill onto me. If I am Scum then you kill me before Mafia can determine you did not help them. Town kills the false Patsy the next Day. Town and LUTHA win. I am Town however, so if you are going to help LUTHA, my death should satisfy you and Mafia in your quest for numbers. \*\*Captain Klutz \*\*has played a better game than I have anyway. :dubious: If you are actually town, you’re proposing an incredibly anti-town scheme. You’re suggesting that we should lose three townies toDay. With your scheme, the patsy dies, townie Biotop dies, and mafia kill a confirmed non-scum (Klutz or a cultist) with their kill. That’s an utterly terrible day. > [@Koldanar](#): > > I’m sticking by my guns - if I lose as LUTHA because the mafia is vindictive, then so be it - they still lose too. It’s the final cry of a dying breed, here. If it turns out that I’ve been wrong this whole time about you guys, and if you do in fact stick by said guns, I will gladly eat all the virtual crow you like regardless of whether town wins or not. Maybe even real crow if I can source something local. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100/40 "2017-03-27T15:32:18Z")
Um, thanks? I am a she by the way, but generally clueless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-12/783100.md?page=3)