# Mafia Reunion Day 13 **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [March 30, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324 "2017-03-30T01:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/101 "2017-04-03T02:15:28Z")
If **Biotop** flips town, there is no way **Johnny Bravo** is avoiding the lynch toMorrow. I started toDay thinking that I would be voting **Johnny Bravo**. During Patsygate he pushed very hard for the wrong candidate. He even suggested lynching **Biotop** instead, which would be a crazy risky move. For most of the game he was actually my “most likely to be town”, but Patsygate certainly changed that. However, **Plumpudding** also regarded **Biotop** as the likely last scum. I don’t know these players very well, but having 2 of them thinking that **Biotop** was scum was something I could not ignore. I was also a bit unhappy with **Biotop’s** “one of them must be scum” comment [(Day 12.38)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20095644&postcount=38). So I decided on **Biotop** for toDay. But if that’s wrong it is definitely **Johnny Bravo** toMorrow. I’ll probably just do a one line vote post, plus HAMMER. And then ignore the thread until the Day ends. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/102 "2017-04-03T03:14:55Z")
\*\*Day 13 Vote Count Biotop(3) - Johnnybravo(57), Plumudding(67), CaptainKlutz(68) Johnnybravo(1) - Biotop(56) \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/103 "2017-04-03T04:38:45Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > If **Biotop** flips town, there is no way **Johnny Bravo** is avoiding the lynch toMorrow. > > I started toDay thinking that I would be voting **Johnny Bravo**. During Patsygate he pushed very hard for the wrong candidate. He even suggested lynching **Biotop** instead, which would be a crazy risky move. For most of the game he was actually my “most likely to be town”, but Patsygate certainly changed that. > > However, **Plumpudding** also regarded **Biotop** as the likely last scum. I don’t know these players very well, but having 2 of them thinking that **Biotop** was scum was something I could not ignore. I was also a bit unhappy with **Biotop’s** “one of them must be scum” comment [(Day 12.38)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20095644&postcount=38). So I decided on **Biotop** for toDay. But if that’s wrong it is definitely **Johnny Bravo** toMorrow. I’ll probably just do a one line vote post, plus HAMMER. And then ignore the thread until the Day ends. You need to convince **Hawkeyeop** and the others. I am worried that you will not be alive toMorrow to continue carrying Town. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/104 "2017-04-03T05:18:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I suppose I don’t understand, no. > > You said that if town voted for me and it turned out to be a mislynch, that you would accept a counter-lynch tomorrow, including voting for yourself to speed it along. > > You have also said that there is “absolutely no reason” why town shouldn’t vote for me first and you second. > > You have also pointed out that if town mislynches twice, cult will almost certainly flip to Mafia’s side on a Day 15 that begins 1-1-1. > > Therefore, in this scenario (we are both town and I get lynched first) which **YOU** have proposed, you are handing the game to Mafia by not fighting against your own mislynch on Day 14. > > How else am I supposed to interpret it? Especially since I refuse to accept that you ‘know’ I am scum. You don’t know that and you can’t know that. > > Or to put it differently: > > Assume a hypothetical situation where town only has two mislynches remaining. > > There are two townies who fervently believe that the other is scum. > > One of the two will be lynched today. The other will almost certainly be lynched the following day. > > One promises to allow himself to be lynched if he is wrong. The other promises to fight to the end. > > In a vacuum, as a third-party observer who knows that **both** hypothetical players are town, which is the better lynch? The one who is going to vote himself the next day, or the one who is going to fight and continue looking for scum? But this game isn’t played with hypothetical observers. It’s six players trying to figure out what is going on, and one who knows exactly. I keep feeling that the only reason you post this stuff is to try and get into my head, to try and get into our heads, to plant that seed of doubt. Out of that seed you hope to grow enough doubt to survive. Town needs to have that exact sureness Scum has. We can’t show weakness, or Scum will pounce. You are too dangerous **Johnny Bravo**. If you are Town I am sorry. I just don’t think either **Plumpudding** or \*\*raventhief \*\* could have pushed us to this point. I gave up nothing by volunteering my death toMorrow. If I cannot convince Town that I am not Scum today while you are alive, how could I convince them toMorrow if you are somehow a mislynch toDay? This is not quitting. This is understanding the situation, and doing everything I can for Town to win with the cards I have, not the ones I wish I had. Town has two mislynches available, but only two. The correct play is to do everything I can think of to make sure the true guilty player is lynched toDay or toMorrow. That’s what I have done. I think my best will be good enough. If not, I know I tried. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/105 "2017-04-03T05:30:04Z")
Biotop is sounding a lot like I did in a couple of games where I was the last mafia standing. So I will vote him toDay not that it makes much difference. **vote Biotop** ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/106 "2017-04-03T05:38:53Z")
I am tired. What I was trying to post is that Town has two lynches available, but only one mislynch. If I am to be that one mislynch I must do everything in my power to make the other lynch count. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/107 "2017-04-03T05:40:45Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Biotop is sounding a lot like I did in a couple of games where I was the last mafia standing. So I will vote him toDay not that it makes much difference. > > **vote Biotop** And will you vote for \*\*Johnny Bravo \*\*toMorrow if the game continues? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/108 "2017-04-03T11:22:24Z")
So… We’re missing two votes right? Are you (Raventhief and Hawkeyeop) unsure about this lynch? If so, I’d like to hear why. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/109 "2017-04-03T12:47:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > I’ll probably just do a one line vote post, plus HAMMER. And then ignore the thread until the Day ends. \*\*If \*\*Biotop is town, I understand that I’ll get lynched. I even understand if you don’t come back to the game until the lynch result. The only thing would ask that you not hammer me. \*\*If \*\*Biotop isn’t scum, this game will be going until Day 15 and I want to make sure I get my thoughts on record before Day 14 ends. I’ll put them in spoilers if you don’t even want to risk reading them. If there was a way to put a time delay on posts, I’d do that just so that nobody has to worry about my insidious silver tongue(?). Hell, I have one or two more outlandish theories about Biotop that I kind of want to do that for. Maybe a pastebin? It wouldn’t be any good except for as a post-game “told ya so” if it turns out I’m right. You may not want to hear my opinion toMorrow, but whomever is left will want to hear it the next day. Biotop will characterize this as a nefarious plan to twist your brains, but it’s just a normal case of a town player wanting to get his final thoughts into the thread before the lynch. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I really, really hope it’s all moot. We’ll find out in about eight hours. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/110 "2017-04-03T13:42:41Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > So… We’re missing two votes right? Are you (Raventhief and Hawkeyeop) unsure about this lynch? If so, I’d like to hear why. I have been very sick the last several days- you don’t want to hear about my weekend. I’ve been reading sporadically on my phone but not been up to interrupting the JB/B fight. I’m feeling a bit better, so in 30 minutes or so I’ll pull up the computer and respond more fully. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/111 "2017-04-03T14:11:56Z")
Aw… Here, have some homemade chicken soup. Caught the bug yesterday, feel like shit. @Biotop and Johnny Bravo: Geez, get a room! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/112 "2017-04-03T14:21:01Z")
I will be at work, of course, after this post. I hold no grudge for my first ever mislynch. Town players do not know, and it is Scum’s job to get someone else killed. It feels weird, but I hope my demise will be in the service of a final good result. I have made my opinions for toMorrow pretty clear. But please give \*\*Johnny Bravo \*\* a fair hearing. He deserves that. And then lynch him. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/113 "2017-04-03T14:37:35Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > But please give \*\*Johnny Bravo \*\* a fair hearing. He deserves that. And then lynch him. I’ll take it. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/114 "2017-04-03T14:48:37Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Aw… Here, have some homemade chicken soup. > > Caught the bug yesterday, feel like shit. > > @Biotop and Johnny Bravo: Geez, get a room! Thanks, Plum! So, as long as one of our intrepid debaters is the last scum, we should be good. I know I am not scum, but I can’t say that with certainty about the very charming guy who just offered me soup. I HOPE he is not, otherwise we are going to lose. As I was reading this weekend, but really not up to wading into the fight, I kept thinking, “A smart scum player would stay out of this fray, wouldn’t they?” Literally everyone in this game (now) is more experienced at Mafia than I am, as has been pointed out multiple times. People know the “right” way to play, and more, they know each others’ playstyles (to a degree). I dont think my vote matters at all at this point, But I am going to take a few moments (for a given value of moment) and try to re-read a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/115 "2017-04-03T15:19:03Z")
I’ve been worrying about that. Like I said, I can’t claim that I’m positive about Biotop’s lynch. The problem is that “frustrated townie” is also something that cornered scum will do. So is “reasonable townie who has accepted their death.” Both will occasionally cause town to reconsider votes, and somebody earlier in the game mentioned that it’s not at all uncommon for town to talk themselves out of a good lynch. So if he’s **not** scum (and since I know I’m not, and since I’m almost certainly tomorrow’s lynch) then either you or Plumpudding are having _quite_ the chuckle right now and that’s a bit frustrating. > [@](#): > > I dont think my vote matters at all at this point, But I am going to take a few moments (for a given value of moment) and try to re-read a bit. It very much matters - you should place one before the end of the day, along with your reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/116 "2017-04-03T15:19:15Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > very charming guy 😊 > [@raventhief](#): > > I kept thinking, “A smart scum player would stay out of this fray, wouldn’t they?” And here is one reason why I’m not going to promise to speedlynch Johnny Bravo toMorrow, if Biotop flips town. Flattery aside, I’m feeling pretty good about Raventhief, but I’m not, and can’t be, 100% sure. > [@raventhief](#): > > Literally everyone in this game (now) is more experienced at Mafia than I am, as has been pointed out multiple times. People know the “right” way to play, and more, they know each others’ playstyles (to a degree). You know, your first game was my third. It’s not that big of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/117 "2017-04-03T15:42:06Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > 😊 > And here is one reason why I’m not going to promise to speedlynch Johnny Bravo toMorrow, if Biotop flips town. Flattery aside, I’m feeling pretty good about Raventhief, but I’m not, and can’t be, 100% sure. > > \*\* You know, your first game was my third. It’s not that big of a difference. \*\* Really? I had no idea! ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/118 "2017-04-03T16:22:43Z")
Yup. I had a break, in several ways. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/119 "2017-04-03T17:18:33Z")
It occurred to me while driving to work that my detractors have never explained why I claimed the Doctor Seward Switch on Day 4. [Here is the post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19969202&postcount=180). If I am Mafia why would I do this? I am pretty sure no Scum have claimed any switches in this game. Say I am Scum. Why take this risk? What if the other Doctor Seward Switch had been held by Town? It sure would have made both of us look guilty. A Town power role with both switches held by Town? Not bloody likely. If there is no Doctor Seward Switch how would I know that? My false claim could have been countered by two people. The other Doctor Seward switch holder never claimed. No Scum claimed switches. Yet I am supposed to have done so \*back on Day 4 \* for no reason. Did I do it so I could 9 Days later make a desperate last minute EOD plea post from the breakroom ? That’s absurd. Or maybe, just maybe, I did it because I am Town and it seemed like the right thing to do for Town at the time. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324/120 "2017-04-03T17:19:56Z")
Johnny Bravo urged HARD against Hawkeye, which as we NOW know, would have been a mislynch. Yes, Town often makes good cases against bad candidates, but I am still pondering this thorny issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-13/783324.md?page=7)