# Mafia Reunion Day 5 **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271 "2017-02-07T20:22:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/261 "2017-02-10T08:19:50Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > As a general policy, if you’re referring to a case, can you at least include a post number so we don’t have to hunt it down? Links are even better. (This is a general request and not specific to plum.) > > As to TexCat, I had my early reservations based on her posting habits (totally meta, nothing content related), but those have eased back significantly toDay and yesterDay. Day 2 [#68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19929121&postcount=68), Day 3 [#757](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19957937&postcount=757). Sorry, I was in my lazymood. As a general policy I’d also like WoW’s to include links to the posts being commented on to provide context, but I guess I’m the only one… I mean, when you’re taking the time to do a WoW in the first place, it’s not like it’s that much more of a hassle to include links. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/262 "2017-02-10T08:25:10Z")
On Prof. I can see the argument to do away with him just to get a reveal. He’s been taking up an awful lot of our time and real-estate, for having provided so little of interest. But again, that’s a distraction-vote… I was hoping he would step up his game after Idle… @Prof: One thing you never answered: Why did you misrep your reasons for going away from LtL? By that I mean pretending meta had anything to do with it. You stated unequivocally in the posts I linked to that it was because it wasn’t particularly effective - no mention of meta. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/263 "2017-02-10T12:13:52Z")
OK, I’ve finished skimming, I’ve finished shoveling, and I’ll try to catch up today. Some notes from the last night - I had actually forgotten about sach’s breadcrumbs. I thought they were a bit obtuse, but valid, so I will amend my statement : It’s more possible sach is faking, but with the breadcrumbs available, I don’t believe so. I’m not happy that Diggit wound up town (where my vote went). That’s two townies I’ve voted for so far - I may have to revisit my day 2 vote, and see what (if anything) has built up since then. LightFoot - why does it look like you’re fishing for more 3p info? This is something that pinged me greatly with Diggit. I won’t say it makes me think scum anymore, since I was obviously wrong, but we can see now that there was a good scum rush to vote for Crys on day 2. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/264 "2017-02-10T12:19:54Z")
> [@Koldanar](#): > > LightFoot - why does it look like you’re fishing for more 3p info? This is something that pinged me greatly with Diggit. I won’t say it makes me think scum anymore, since I was obviously wrong, but we can see now that there was a good scum rush to vote for Crys on day 2. I’m not **lightfoot** obviously, but i have to ask: what do you mean, “fishing for more 3p info”? Why _shouldn’t_ we do that? Fishing is anti-Town when trying to elicit more info about power roles, because we don’t want scum to have that knowledge, but any other kind of info “fishing” is a good thing IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/265 "2017-02-10T12:40:21Z")
Sach, and Crys, before I get much deeper in the day - have either of you been investigating? ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/266 "2017-02-10T12:44:03Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > I’m not **lightfoot** obviously, but i have to ask: what do you mean, “fishing for more 3p info”? Why _shouldn’t_ we do that? Fishing is anti-Town when trying to elicit more info about power roles, because we don’t want scum to have that knowledge, but any other kind of info “fishing” is a good thing IMO. Sorry, I think I didn’t explain this as fully as I wanted. A true non-hostile 3p lynch benefits scum only - we obviously won’t know whether or not if any 3p is truly non-hostile until post game, but the scum win conditions are furthered by any lynch that isn’t scum. A non-hostile even more so, as there would be no benefit to town. The only info we have is the info claimed by Crys and sach, who at this point I choose to believe. We are getting closer to a point where removing a claimed 3p won’t hurt nearly as much as it would on the day of Crys’s claim. Reaching out for more LUTHA info seems scummy, on the surface. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/267 "2017-02-10T13:17:55Z")
> [@Koldanar](#): > > A true non-hostile 3p lynch benefits scum only - we obviously won’t know whether or not if any 3p is truly non-hostile until post game, but the scum win conditions are furthered by any lynch that isn’t scum. A non-hostile even more so, as there would be no benefit to town. I’ve already addressed this (D5#161), but I’ll do it again. **Leaving the cultists alone is dangerous to town. A cultist lynch does not ONLY benefit scum.** If there comes any point where cultists+[mafia|wolves] \> everyone else, they can reveal as a block and control the rest of the votes. Other factors make this more or less dangerous, but there are any number of not unlikely scenarios that work for this. The worst-case scenario is one where the remainder of the wolves AND our vig die. That would push us to the end-game pretty quickly. The cultists do not care who wins. They have no loyalty to town. The notion that they can be at once non-hostile AND that they can win with scum is fallacious. As soon as it makes sense for them to jump ship, they will. Our only defense is to either force the cult into the open,\* or kill the ones we know about to decrease their potential power as an anti-town voting block. \*Let’s also not forget that the other three cultists claiming would reduce the pool of players that we’re scum-hunting in. I think we’re at the point in the game where that would be useful. I would, at present, be content with only two of the remaining three hidden cultists claiming to preserve a bit of their anonymity. I also think that, should no Masons or Cultists die between now and toMorrow, we should discuss them all claiming together. If we have five more deaths before then and there are in fact five cultists, that would mean that nearly 1/3 of the remaining players (nine out of 28) could be confirmed as not-scum. That would be huge. Regardless, if we don’t get **some** kind of change in the cultist paradigm soon, I’m going to start pulling very hard to lynch sachertorte. There’s no such thing as a tame tiger and there’s no such thing as a non-hostile 3P. There are only moments where you aren’t _currently_ getting mauled. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/268 "2017-02-10T13:24:43Z")
> [@Koldanar](#): > > Reaching out for more LUTHA info seems scummy, on the surface. I still don’t see how that would be true. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/269 "2017-02-10T14:21:27Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I have also been thinking about the whole Prof P situation, and whether or not Pleonast was emphatically signalling his results. While i know color isn’t some secret puzzle of clues, the whole “unlucky seer” thing makes me wonder if he was blocked at all. We know that the Seer was subject to being blocked. I may have missed this - what day is it assumed Pleo found Prof P? We know he was defintely on to Thing Fish, right? ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/270 "2017-02-10T14:28:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I’ve already addressed this (D5#161), but I’ll do it again. > > **Leaving the cultists alone is dangerous to town. A cultist lynch does not ONLY benefit scum.** > > If there comes any point where cultists+[mafia|wolves] \> everyone else, they can reveal as a block and control the rest of the votes. Other factors make this more or less dangerous, but there are any number of not unlikely scenarios that work for this. > > The worst-case scenario is one where the remainder of the wolves AND our vig die. That would push us to the end-game pretty quickly. > > The cultists do not care who wins. They have no loyalty to town. The notion that they can be at once non-hostile AND that they can win with scum is fallacious. As soon as it makes sense for them to jump ship, they will. Our only defense is to either force the cult into the open,\* or kill the ones we know about to decrease their potential power as an anti-town voting block. > > \*Let’s also not forget that the other three cultists claiming would reduce the pool of players that we’re scum-hunting in. I think we’re at the point in the game where that would be useful. > > I would, at present, be content with only two of the remaining three hidden cultists claiming to preserve a bit of their anonymity. > > I also think that, should no Masons or Cultists die between now and toMorrow, we should discuss them all claiming together. If we have five more deaths before then and there are in fact five cultists, that would mean that nearly 1/3 of the remaining players (nine out of 28) could be confirmed as not-scum. That would be huge. > > Regardless, if we don’t get **some** kind of change in the cultist paradigm soon, I’m going to start pulling very hard to lynch sachertorte. There’s no such thing as a tame tiger and there’s no such thing as a non-hostile 3P. There are only moments where you aren’t _currently_ getting mauled. Shoot, fair enough. I wasn’t considering the end-game point of them + scum outnumbering the town. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/271 "2017-02-10T14:58:10Z")
> [@Koldanar](#): > > OK, I’ve finished skimming, I’ve finished shoveling, and I’ll try to catch up today. > > Some notes from the last night - I had actually forgotten about sach’s breadcrumbs. I thought they were a bit obtuse, but valid, so I will amend my statement : It’s more possible sach is faking, but with the breadcrumbs available, I don’t believe so. > > I’m not happy that Diggit wound up town (where my vote went). That’s two townies I’ve voted for so far - I may have to revisit my day 2 vote, and see what (if anything) has built up since then. > > LightFoot - why does it look like you’re fishing for more 3p info? This is something that pinged me greatly with Diggit. I won’t say it makes me think scum anymore, since I was obviously wrong, but we can see now that there was a good scum rush to vote for Crys on day 2. You miss read my intent. you may not recall my previous Days stance on LUTHA but I have rallied against their policy lynch. that said It is D5 and we only have 2/5 of LUTHA claimed. \* curious isn’t it that not a one of the others has claimed- now that we took the pressure off.\* We are down to 3 Wolves/5 Mafia \*\* When the numbers dwindle to 2 each there will be no way for the cult to prove they are not Scum playing a gambit without a death.\*\* Our two claimed cultists avoiding this subject speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/272 "2017-02-10T15:27:47Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > On Prof. I can see the argument to do away with him just to get a reveal. He’s been taking up an awful lot of our time and real-estate, for having provided so little of interest. But again, that’s a distraction-vote… I was hoping he would step up his game after Idle… > > @Prof: One thing you never answered: Why did you misrep your reasons for going away from LtL? By that I mean pretending meta had anything to do with it. You stated unequivocally in the posts I linked to that it was because it wasn’t particularly effective - no mention of meta. I don’t recall seeing \*\* Prof. \*\* address my post proving that their use of \*\* Angel \*\* (incorrectly) to forward the lynch the 3P campaign except for a quick " you are right" that sticks to me as well. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/273 "2017-02-10T15:30:11Z")
> [@Koldanar](#): > > Sach, and Crys, before I get much deeper in the day - have either of you been investigating? And you called my post - addressed to LUTHA- as fishing? curious. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/274 "2017-02-10T15:40:57Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > And you called my post - addressed to LUTHA- as fishing? > curious. Fishing is only bad if it outs town power roles. Nothing wrong with questioning confirmed third parties on their activities. I would like an answer to that question too. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/275 "2017-02-10T15:43:14Z")
I reread the last posts, and I think I understand your objection with Koldanar now. Still, I don’t think knowing what our confirmed third parties have been doing would be terribly helpful to anyone besides town. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/276 "2017-02-10T15:57:50Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > You miss read my intent. > > you may not recall my previous Days stance on LUTHA but I have rallied against their policy lynch. > > that said > It is D5 and we only have 2/5 of LUTHA claimed. \* curious isn’t it that not a one of the others has claimed- now that we took the pressure off.\* > We are down to 3 Wolves/5 Mafia > > \*\* > When the numbers dwindle to 2 each there will be no way for the cult to prove they are not Scum playing a gambit without a death.\*\* > > Our two claimed cultists avoiding this subject speaks volumes. It’s been less than 24 hours since you first posted this, I haven’t seen anything from Crys or Sach, and I still don’t understand your math/logic. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/277 "2017-02-10T15:59:12Z")
**Day 5 Vote Count** **Professor P. (12)** Hawkeyeop(6), paulwhoisaghost(19), Lakai(50), bufftabby(57), sinjin(104), biotop(129), captainklutz(138), johnnybravo(142), cometothedarkside(192), khameleon(201), mhaye(224), lightfoot(230), \*\*Texcat(2) \*\* Plumpudding(38), Hoopy(229) \*\*Paulwhoisaghost(1) \*\* Texcat(22), \*\*Nanook(1) \*\* sachertorte(225) **Khameleon(1)** snfaulkner(231) **Nanook (1)** Hooker Chemical (253) * * * _this space for rent_ Day ends on Sunday, February 12 , at 3:00 Right now Prof P will die, but you never know…I guess. No secondary lynches toDay. Our countdown clock seems to be broken right now, but at this point you all have to have a pretty good idea of how this whole thing works anyway right? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/278 "2017-02-10T16:02:02Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Here’s the post that put him on my radar: > > Since then, he’s been much more…sane…and I feel like Nanook is molehill mountaineering. Especially so since it doesn’t come back to Ender’s nonsense post. > > **vote Nanook** So you were suspicious of him also. But because I didn’t directly reference one specific post, though I did indirectly, that means I’m somehow making something out of nothing. What? No, really, what? Is everyone else taking crazy pills? Am I losing my mind? What is this nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/279 "2017-02-10T16:04:29Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > It’s been less than 24 hours since you first posted this, I haven’t seen anything from Crys or Sach, and I still don’t understand your math/logic. If at any point there are less of a specific scum faction than there are claimed LUTHA members, then we know 100% that the LUTHA are not members of that faction running some sort of long con. The next Wolf that dies would mean that the claimed LUTHA are exactly equal in number to the known number of living Wolves, which if nothing else changes increases the possibility that the LUTHA are Wolves running a scam. Or at least that’s how I read it, and the logic makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271/280 "2017-02-10T16:07:56Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > And you called my post - addressed to LUTHA- as fishing? > curious. Hey, I don’t care about their results. Just if they are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-5/779271.md?page=15)