# Mafia Reunion - Day 9 **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [March 7, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651 "2017-03-07T21:58:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/41 "2017-03-08T16:24:15Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > We are not going to lynch outside that pool of 9, whether they claim now or not. They can always claim later if it looks like they might be lynched. There is absolutely no reason for them to put a target on their back for the scum to hit. Disagree. We’ve only had a few days all game where cases were made against multiple players. The way this game is going, and the way we’re playing, I’d rather rule the power roles out from the start. I don’t want somebody claiming at the 11th hour and then having town make a bad secondary pick. But there’s another reason why the claim is good for town. Shrinking the Scum Pool makes it much easier for scum to kill one another. Say we lynch a Mafia today. That puts them down a player against the wolves. They could kill one of our power roles, sure, or they could try and take down a wolf. Shrinking the Scum Pool makes it easier for them to find a wolf, and affects their opportunity cost calculation for how they use their night kill. The scum win conditions are that they have to outnumber the other scum team. We should make it easier for them to kill one another. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/42 "2017-03-08T16:36:51Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > What Texcat said. I’m a bit dubious of how hard you are pushing this mass claim. Angling for a reason to place a vote on me without doing the analysis you promised, huh? Surely you can do better than “me too.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/43 "2017-03-08T16:48:39Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > There is \*\*absolutely no reason \*\*for them to put a target on their back for the scum to hit. Bolding mine. Let me ask you to address my tl;dr about why I think claiming is a good idea. You can tell me why my reasoning is wrong. Note that you say there is **absolutely no reason** for them to claim. I invite everyone else to comment too, obviously. Assertion 1: Claiming now gives us more time to build a case against the players left in the pool. Assertion 2: Claiming now shrinks the pool and makes it easier for scum to kill one another. Assertion 3: The mason and the zoning inspector are not doing us much good hidden at the moment. They’re more valuable as confirmed town. What’s left for the roleblocker to block? Another roleblocker? Assertion 4: A mass claim gives LUTHA the chance, once and for all, to decide who they’re throwing in with. Assertion 5: I’m good with the Patsy not claiming, but if the she (using your pronoun) **does** allow herself to be lynched, wouldn’t it be better for her to have a smaller pool to choose her retributive kill from? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/44 "2017-03-08T16:50:44Z")
Afternoon all. I am aware that I haven’t yet posted my results for Day 8. Something odd happened, and I am holding back on claiming until I’ve thought about the implications of the effect on my powers. i’ll be back in a few hours with my decision. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/45 "2017-03-08T16:53:15Z")
Raventhief Sinjin Zeriel (did you post anything at all in Day 8?) Plumpudding You are all on notice. I have not decided to kill any of you yet, but I need to see something genuinely analytical or participatory from each of you by the end of the day or you 4 will join the lynch. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/46 "2017-03-08T17:27:57Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > **LightFoot** , when did you decide to take a detailed look at **Cygnus**? N7- I re-read D1, I made a note about PCM’s one post and decided to investigate what happened to his sub. on review I noted that there were many promised anaylsis that were never followed up. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Nope, not yet. There’s a lot of week left` > I’m getting a real “just asking questions” from you vibe right now. The whole way this game works is that we’re able to go back and re-read as we gain more data. No, I don’t remember seeing anything to lead me in that direction. That doesn’t mean it’s automatically a bad idea to reread Guiri’s interactions. My time here is limited most days - I am not “just asking questions” but yes I am asking.- ( as you were) I am trying to share thoughts as I can and leave ‘bookmarks’ for my self on the posts I want to follow up on. \* probably not making sense \* The question you asked is worth investigating- I want to look into it myself, and wondered if you already had. and Yes re-reading \*\*Guiri \*\* is a good idea.-I never said it wasn’t > [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Sometimes you are suspicious of someone without really being able to articulate an argument, so I wouldn’t read too much into that. even if I had asked \* you \* that question, I woud not be happy with this answer. > [@](#): > > I would be stunned with a counter claim. An unprovoked 1/1 trade is awful when you have 2 or 3 enemies sides. I did talk myself around on this > [@](#): > > At any rate, I think ends our discussion of a mass claim. The Lutha are obviously going to decide for themselves if/when to reveal. The remaining Mason and Patsy have no particular value to town other than they can mostly self-confirm. There might be a time in the very late game when they can’t self-confirm, so they should claim before then, but when exactly they wish to claim is up to them. How can the patsy ‘self confirm?’ ( unless you are referring to the lack of a counterclaim.) > [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > I’m a bit concerned that LUTHA have not yet claimed. I believe that there are 5 of you, and you do not have an exclusive win, so I will not vote to lynch you. But that is only if you come forward unforced - I won’t accept a claim that comes under lynch pressure. > > If you want to work with town you need to demonstrate this by coming forward. **Koldanar** , what do you think your fellow cultists should do? I have been saying mostly this. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/47 "2017-03-08T17:52:48Z")
\*\* Johnny B \*\* You have claimed vanila and you said this " The mass claim is town’s decision. Specifically, it’s the decision of the remaining power roles " BUT YOU are pushing for power roles to claim. ( for data you say) AND you are fine if LUTHA don’t claim.- even though you say you believe they are non hostile ( so semi Town for the numbers) > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Disagree. We’ve only had a few days all game where cases were made against multiple players. The way this game is going, and the way we’re playing, I’d rather rule the power roles out from the start. I don’t want somebody claiming at the 11th hour and then having town make a bad secondary pick. > > But there’s another reason why the claim is good for town. > > Shrinking the Scum Pool makes it much easier for scum to kill one another. Say we lynch a Mafia today. That puts them down a player against the wolves. They could kill one of our power roles, sure, or they could try and take down a wolf. Shrinking the Scum Pool makes it easier for them to find a wolf, and affects their opportunity cost calculation for how they use their night kill. > > The scum win conditions are that they have to outnumber the other scum team. We should make it easier for them to kill one another. So - You want Town to claim \*\* to help Scum? \*\* > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Bolding mine. Let me ask you to address my tl;dr about why I think claiming is a good idea. You can tell me why my reasoning is wrong. Note that you say there is **absolutely no reason** for them to claim. > > I invite everyone else to comment too, obviously. > > Assertion 1: Claiming now gives us more time to build a case against the players left in the pool. Like you yourself said the Day is young- build a case first and see what happens > [@](#): > > Assertion 2: Claiming now shrinks the pool and makes it easier for scum to kill one another. AGAIN " let’s help Scum" > [@](#): > > Assertion 3: The mason and the zoning inspector are not doing us much good hidden at the moment. They’re more valuable as confirmed town. What’s left for the roleblocker to block? Another roleblocker? 4 living Scum have power roles that could be effected - and yes blocking a Scum blocker is a fine thing > [@](#): > > Assertion 4: A mass claim gives LUTHA the chance, once and for all, to decide who they’re throwing in with. I am sure they have they are just not telling us. Town should claim to help LUTHA but you don’t care if LUTHA claims to help Town? > [@](#): > > Assertion 5: I’m good with the Patsy not claiming, but if the she (using your pronoun) **does** allow herself to be lynched, wouldn’t it be better for her to have a smaller pool to choose her retributive kill from? so far the patsy has kept own counsel- leave be. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/48 "2017-03-08T17:54:26Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Afternoon all. > > I am aware that I haven’t yet posted my results for Day 8. Something odd happened, and I am holding back on claiming until I’ve thought about the implications of the effect on my powers. > > i’ll be back in a few hours with my decision. perfectly acceptable any comments on the current discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/49 "2017-03-08T18:13:43Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > So - You want Town to claim \*\* to help Scum? \*\* I want to help them kill one another, yes. Do you have a problem with that? Would you prefer they use their kills on town? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/50 "2017-03-08T18:35:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Angling for a reason to place a vote on me without doing the analysis you promised, huh? Surely you can do better than “me too.” Hard to have a me too vote, when no one has actually voted for you. I would like to do a full analysis of you and everyone else for that matter, but time for Mafia is not unlimited. I’m not going to hold off expressing opinions or even voting until I have time to dig deep. We don’t need more people staying silent. > [@LightFoot](#): > > even if I had asked \* you \* that question, I woud not be happy with this answer. Do you ever have players that just feel scummy to you? For example, I’m not surprised Guiri is scum as that is what my gut felt. But there wasn’t any tangible reason I could point to as to why I thought Guiri was scum or why anyone else should too. If I made an unsubstantiated vote, then I would have been attacked and perhaps lynched for it. So I didn’t. However, if I was in a situation where I could kill someone without having to worry about defending it, it might have been different. Then I could go with who felt most scummy to be rather than the best case I could make. So it doesn’t bother me for other confirmed townies to go with their gut. > [@LightFoot](#): > > I did talk myself around on this How can the patsy ‘self confirm?’ ( unless you are referring to the lack of a counterclaim.) In the sense that a counterclaim is bad play, so it is unlikely to be done. It is particularly a bad play in the case of the patsy, as they can just kill the false claimer if they happen to get lynched. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/51 "2017-03-08T19:22:21Z")
Aloha all. Sorry for my lack of play. This game has escaped me from the very beginning as I’ve stated before. My role in the game has also made me kind of apathetic too. I was going to claim yesterday, but kept going back and forth. So today is the day. > [@](#): > > Welcome to the game; you are The Cardinal of the Cult of Lutha > > ALIGNMENT: Third Party (Non-Hostile) > YOU WIN along with all members of the Cult, living or dead, if any of the five Cultists of Lutha are alive when the game ends in any other way. > > BACKGROUND: > Some people venerate wealth or power, or chase sirens of fame or possessions. Not you. You care nothing for the bloodlust of the Werewolves, or the base greed and pinstripes of the Mafia, or even for the pleasant camaraderie of the Town. You are the Cult of Lutha, and your numbers are legion. Actually, your numbers are five. You don’t know one another’s names or faces, but so long as even one of you remains alive, the principles of Lutha will triumph in the end. > > (Postscript: “Lutha” stands for “Leave Us the Hell Alone.” You are no threat to any side. Good luck convincing them of this). > > POWERS: > You have the single-use power, which must be initiated at Night, to protect any player in the game except for yourself from all kills other than the Primary Lynch for the full subsequent Day-Night Cycle. I have already used my power so I am essentially vanilla. I also got a switch; [QUOTE=Mahaloth] Oh, one more thing. You also have a switch. It’s labeled “Informant Switch”. Each Night, it begins in the “on” position and you may flip it to “off” or leave it alone. There is another switch like this out there, by the way. [/QUOTE] I still think that \*\*Koldanar \*\*is a false Lutha for the same reasons I mentioned Yesterday. In addition don’t think his power is within the tenants of Luthaism. If we want to be left the hell alone than we should leave others the hell alone. A redirector is an invasive meddler in the actions of others, no true Lutha would condone that. \ I am traveling in the desert southwest and have poor to no internet. We are going to Death Valley tomorrow and will be there til Tuesday. I’m pretty sure internet service will be no better if not worse than it is where we are right now. BTW Lake Mead is awesome, I can’t believe it took us so long to check this place out. Happy Trails.\ ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/52 "2017-03-08T21:02:01Z")
I’m sorry my participation has been low. So question for sinjin- was crys the object of protection? I know at one point i wondered, and i think others did too, how she had survived, especially if GLadOS may have been a significant threat for cult. If the player was someone else and is still alive, I’m not necessarily looking for a name. It is interesting that you also have the identical background as had been previously claimed for LUTHA. I’ll be back on a computer shortly and a bit more involved. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/53 "2017-03-08T21:29:19Z")
\*\*Vote: Koldanar \*\* I still think that the PM was edited. And now we have a fellow LUTHA, sinjin, saying that it looks fake. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/54 "2017-03-08T22:11:45Z")
Well, some of that meshes in interesting ways with what I’ve been thinking about. Before I go any further, can someone point me to the Day Koldanar’s claim was made in? I need to reread it. in context. Thanks. As for the mass claim, the only two remaining really claimable roles are the hidden Mason and the Zoning Inspector. I think it would be advantageous for them both to clam now, the Mason while they still have a living buddy and the Inspector because he or she needs to answer some questions. Please give them time to claim, while I dig around for Koldanar’s claim. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/55 "2017-03-08T22:37:01Z")
It was day7. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/56 "2017-03-08T22:38:23Z")
Thanks. On with reading the claim. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/57 "2017-03-08T22:39:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I want to help them kill one another, yes. Do you have a problem with that? Would you prefer they use their kills on town? I’m thinking I have to agree with this. Town’s ability to lynch scum has been total yarbles. Let them kill each other and we try and pick off the remaining without making ourselves look any more inept. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/58 "2017-03-08T22:41:56Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Aloha all. Sorry for my lack of play. This game has escaped me from the very beginning as I’ve stated before. My role in the game has also made me kind of apathetic too. I was going to claim yesterday, but kept going back and forth. So today is the day. > > I have already used my power so I am essentially vanilla. > > I also got a switch; > > I still think that \*\*Koldanar \*\*is a false Lutha for the same reasons I mentioned Yesterday. In addition don’t think his power is within the tenants of Luthaism. If we want to be left the hell alone than we should leave others the hell alone. A redirector is an invasive meddler in the actions of others, no true Lutha would condone that. > > \ I am traveling in the desert southwest and have poor to no internet. We are going to Death Valley tomorrow and will be there til Tuesday. I’m pretty sure internet service will be no better if not worse than it is where we are right now. BTW Lake Mead is awesome, I can’t believe it took us so long to check this place out. Happy Trails.\ If used properly, wouldn’t the redirector be able to bounce intrusion away from your luthastylz ? That seems like a reasonable thing for a lutha to be able to do, even if it wasn’t used that way. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/59 "2017-03-09T00:14:32Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Hard to have a me too vote, when no one has actually voted for you. I would like to do a full analysis of you and everyone else for that matter, but time for Mafia is not unlimited. I’m not going to hold off expressing opinions or even voting until I have time to dig deep. We don’t need more people staying silent. > > Do you ever have players that just feel scummy to you? For example, I’m not surprised Guiri is scum as that is what my gut felt. But there wasn’t any tangible reason I could point to as to why I thought Guiri was scum or why anyone else should too. If I made an unsubstantiated vote, then I would have been attacked and perhaps lynched for it. So I didn’t. However, if I was in a situation where I could kill someone without having to worry about defending it, it might have been different. Then I could go with who felt most scummy to be rather than the best case I could make. So it doesn’t bother me for other confirmed townies to go with their gut. fair enough. it pinged me though. taking into consideration what the power was. and a one shot to boot > [@](#): > > In the sense that a counterclaim is bad play, so it is unlikely to be done. It is particularly a bad play in the case of the patsy, as they can just kill the false claimer if they happen to get lynched. right, so how can the patsy self confirm? ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/60 "2017-03-09T00:18:45Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Aloha all. Sorry for my lack of play. This game has escaped me from the very beginning as I’ve stated before. My role in the game has also made me kind of apathetic too. I was going to claim yesterday, but kept going back and forth. So today is the day. > > I have already used my power so I am essentially vanilla. > > I also got a switch; > > I still think that \*\*Koldanar \*\*is a false Lutha for the same reasons I mentioned Yesterday. In addition don’t think his power is within the tenants of Luthaism. If we want to be left the hell alone than we should leave others the hell alone. A redirector is an invasive meddler in the actions of others, no true Lutha would condone that. > > ~\ curious who you used your power on. Your switch PM is _very_ different- and you have no clue what it does? did you ask questions? Your observations @ Koldanar do make sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651.md?page=4)