# Mafia Reunion: Day Eleven **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [March 21, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716 "2017-03-21T21:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/41 "2017-03-23T15:47:16Z")
I would like to see some contributions by both Scathatch and hawkeyeop - particularly what they think of the current lynch and why. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/42 "2017-03-23T17:09:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > One more thing, Texcat: > > Why are you concerned about giving information to Mafia at this point? They’re all that’s left. They now know the alignment of **every player in the game**. From their perspective, what’s the difference between a VT, the patsy, and the remaining two power roles? > > The only reason for the patsy to not claim at this point is if you would advocate that the patsy should allow themselves to be lynched so that they can use their power. That would be horrendously anti-town because it would, if they blew up a VT with the vengeance kill, result in us losing the game **the next Day** , as Mafia+Cult would outnumber all remaining town. > > I think you’re continuing to advocate that the patsy not claim because you don’t want the scum pool to shrink. I also think you’re continuing to advocate that the patsy not claim because you’re hoping that the patsy will let themselves get lynched and potentially kill another townie. I think you see “no point” in claiming VT because you see no point in providing information to town. > > So I’ll start here. > > **vote Texcat** Johnny, look, I agree with you! If the patsy would claim at this point, that would be great. Using your power isn’t too great an idea at this point - generally, we will get a small consensus on who is acting / being scummy at this point in the game, so even though your odds of hitting a mafia may be around 50% or so (let me look back at the math), I do believe at this point we can do better than that with a vote. Losing another townie to a patsy kill can only improve things for the mafia at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/43 "2017-03-23T17:12:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > Although now it is definitely, absolutely, time for the Patsy to claim. Scum now know everyone’s alignment, so the only people being kept in the dark is fellow town. Coming forward will greatly help to unravel the game, being one less person to investigate and one more trusted voice. Yeah, you are probably right. When I first got my role my first thought was to claim. The more I thought about it though, there didn’t seem to be any need. I was never going to be lynched. In a game with an open role set (at least for town) and at least 3 factions, false claiming would be a terrible idea. Particularly for the Patsy role, who’s power was never going to be used, but made a good deterrent. The only downside I could see of not claiming was it might trip up an investigator, but it turns out they weren’t long for this world. So I could wait to claim until I was under threat or really wanted people to listen to me, and neither of those ever happened. I mostly stayed out of the Patsy claim discussion (Pleo made a nice observation that the Patsy probably would), which was difficult at times given how silly some arguments were. I never had a secret plan to get lynched in a blaze of glory or avoid a night kill any other wild idea. Even now, I don’t think this reveal is going to help town very much. Maybe you listen to me a little more or focus on my potential scuminess a little less, but mostly I imagine town will go about their business as they have been. However, with the wolves gone, mafia will know the identity of all remaining town, so failing to claim is no longer depriving them of any information. So I agree there is no reason not to claim at this point. I am Patsy. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/44 "2017-03-23T17:30:39Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Yeah, you are probably right. > > When I first got my role my first thought was to claim. The more I thought about it though, there didn’t seem to be any need. I was never going to be lynched. In a game with an open role set (at least for town) and at least 3 factions, false claiming would be a terrible idea. Particularly for the Patsy role, who’s power was never going to be used, but made a good deterrent. The only downside I could see of not claiming was it might trip up an investigator, but it turns out they weren’t long for this world. So I could wait to claim until I was under threat or really wanted people to listen to me, and neither of those ever happened. > > I mostly stayed out of the Patsy claim discussion (Pleo made a nice observation that the Patsy probably would), which was difficult at times given how silly some arguments were. I never had a secret plan to get lynched in a blaze of glory or avoid a night kill any other wild idea. Even now, I don’t think this reveal is going to help town very much. Maybe you listen to me a little more or focus on my potential scuminess a little less, but mostly I imagine town will go about their business as they have been. > > However, with the wolves gone, mafia will know the identity of all remaining town, so failing to claim is no longer depriving them of any information. So I agree there is no reason not to claim at this point. > > I am Patsy. \*\*unvote vote: Hawkeye \*\* Well I do have a plan to get lynched in a blaze of glory, but I was hoping it would be a little later in the game. I am Patsy. Guiri guessed it right on N0 or D1 whenever it was. I won’t kill you Hawkeye, as your lie is now exposed. And you are sure to die tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/45 "2017-03-23T17:47:22Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Well I do have a plan to get lynched in a blaze of glory, but I was hoping it would be a little later in the game. I am Patsy. Guiri guessed it right on N0 or D1 whenever it was. I won’t kill you Hawkeye, as your lie is now exposed. And you are sure to die tomorrow. Wait a moment - you’re saying that it **has** been your intention to get lynched as the patsy? Even though you know that a misuse of the patsy kill could cost town the game at this point? Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/46 "2017-03-23T17:52:12Z")
NETA: my immediate impulse here is to move the vote to hawkeyeop with the assumption that he’s the better kill of the two. That a patsy hawkeye would be likely to take out scum Texcat, but a patsy Texcat just said she wouldn’t take out a scum hawkeye. But now I’m thinking - from scum’s point of view, why wouldn’t a scummy Texcat counterclaim? If Texcat is definitely going to be lynched, there’s absolutely no harm in her counterclaiming patsy. A hawkeye lynch/Texcat kill is a \*much \*better outcome for them than just a Texcat lynch. This needs consideration. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/47 "2017-03-23T17:54:16Z")
My thinking was that the Patsy would be of most use in a lynch or lose situation. Even a mislynch of me at that point would not be a loss. And even if the scum somehow got the numbers on us, my being able to kill one of them might be able to save the game for us. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/48 "2017-03-23T17:59:09Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > My thinking was that the Patsy would be of most use in a lynch or lose situation. Even a mislynch of me at that point would not be a loss. And even if the scum somehow got the numbers on us, my being able to kill one of them might be able to save the game for us. But right now you’re saying you won’t be kill hawkeye, even though you (as patsy) **know for a fact** that he is mafia. So you’re going to possibly take another townie out with you. Go back and look at my “dear Patsy” post in #11 - those numbers don’t lie. The patsy taking out a townie puts us in LyLo for the remainder of the game. Why would you do that to town? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/49 "2017-03-23T18:06:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > But right now you’re saying you won’t be kill hawkeye, even though you (as patsy) **know for a fact** that he is mafia. So you’re going to possibly take another townie out with you. > > Go back and look at my “dear Patsy” post in #11 - those numbers don’t lie. The patsy taking out a townie puts us in LyLo for the remainder of the game. Why would you do that to town? I’ve identified the scum. You’ll be sure of a scum kill tomorrow. I want to take my shot toDay. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/50 "2017-03-23T18:07:11Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I’ve identified the scum. You’ll be sure of a scum kill tomorrow. I want to take my shot toDay. How on _earth_ have you identified the scum? How can we be sure of a scum kill? Why wouldn’t you just share your information with us? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/51 "2017-03-23T18:11:44Z")
Well that makes things easier. **Vote TexCat** As I said, having only one scum team left changes the equation, so that a false scum claim is more palatable. It still isn’t a good idea, but since Texcat is going to get lynched anyway, might as well see if I can be taken down in the process. For everyone else you just got to ask yourself what is more likely. I as scum and not a target would suddenly claim in a way that would be instantly refuted or Texcat on the verge of being lynched would claim, and only after someone did so first. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/52 "2017-03-23T18:14:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > How on _earth_ have you identified the scum? How can we be sure of a scum kill? Why wouldn’t you just share your information with us? Look, exactly this. Good on you if you’ve actually been the patsy, as you have certainly seemed scummy to me, and most days I would have been more than happy to vote on you, then. **Vote TexCat** , because I don’t believe you are the patsy. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/53 "2017-03-23T18:14:17Z")
\*\*Hawkeyeop \*\* makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/54 "2017-03-23T18:23:12Z")
Day 1: > [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/187): > > @Hooker. Only 1 Patsy. And she should claim. Day 9: > [@Mafia Reunion - Day 9](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-9/781651/39): > > I was all for the Patsy claiming on Day One, but there are no investigators left. So there’s that. If you’re actually a patsy under these circumstances: [ul] [li]You feel like you know 100% who a non-hawkeyeop scum is, BUT[/li][li]You won’t share the information with town even though knowing your thought process would likely help us figure stuff out if you’re wrong, AND[/li][li]You refuse to consider that mis-killing will throw town prematurely into LyLo.[/li][/ul] Then I don’t know what else to say. I’ll just have to hope that you aren’t nearly as anti-town as all that. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/55 "2017-03-23T18:27:54Z")
If you go through with my lynch, my flip will show that I am the Patsy. Won’t you be able to point the finger at Hawkeye as scum then? I’m going to take my shot at someone else. I haven’t quite made up my mind who yet. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/56 "2017-03-23T18:28:59Z")
NETA: But I am willing to listen to suggestions from the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/57 "2017-03-23T18:29:51Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I’m going to take my shot at someone else. I haven’t quite made up my mind who yet. Okay, again. You keep ignoring this. **Why would you risk putting town into LyLo?** ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/58 "2017-03-23T18:39:43Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > NETA: But I am willing to listen to suggestions from the audience. I thought you _knew_ who the scum was? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/59 "2017-03-23T18:41:29Z")
She’s saying that she identified the scum via her counterclaim. Which also doesn’t make sense. Why, if your plan was always to go out in a blaze of glory, counterclaim at all? You could have let the lynch happen and he would still be revealed as a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716/60 "2017-03-23T19:01:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > She’s saying that she identified the scum via her counterclaim. > > Which also doesn’t make sense. Why, if your plan was always to go out in a blaze of glory, counterclaim at all? You could have let the lynch happen and he would still be revealed as a liar. That wasn’t very evident from that sentence. All of this just reeks of saving herself, at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-eleven/782716.md?page=4)