# Mafia Reunion - Day One **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 7, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577 "2017-01-07T22:01:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/321 "2017-01-10T02:45:31Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @Pleonast – you keep talking about how we she discuss the scum roles instead of the town ones, but I haven’t seen you set a model for doing this yet. It also strikes a difficult dilemma. One the one hand, discussing scum strategy can be useful, even if only helping power roles plan their actions. However, the people who have probably thought most about scum strategy in the early going are probably going to be scum. So I tend to read posts like Pleonast’s as suspicious even when I agree with most of it, which I do. Of course you don’t want to discourage the conversation, so it is challenging. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/322 "2017-01-10T02:51:21Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I don’t like this post and unvote. septimus is clearly running away from the Colby bandwagon, but gives very weak reasons. The chatter about the scum board strikes me as particularly disingenuous. Agreed, and I hate to say it because septimus sent me a very nice sort of welcome back PM before the game started and I really don’t want to suspect him. But the scum board bit is so backwards. You’re voting the guy, Septimus my dear. Why are you asking whether copying from a scum board is “the case” against him? You know it isn’t you voted him. It makes no sense. **unvote** **vote: Septimus** ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/323 "2017-01-10T03:12:08Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @Pleonast – you keep talking about how we she discuss the scum roles instead of the town ones, but I haven’t seen you set a model for doing this yet. How would you envision this to take place? I mean, I read your last post and it looks perfectly reasonable right up until the point where I try to think how I would go about doing this, and I just draw a blank. I have every interest in helping townies to play the game in the way I think would be most beneficial to us to win. I don’t have the slightest interest in helping \*\*wolves \*\*to do the same, nor would any other townie, obviously. > > So given it’s not a matter of discussing how best to use the scum roles, what is left? Warnings? Like if scum had a watcher or a redirector then certain night actions or certain claims might be problematic, but they don’t have roles like that. And even if they did, we’d still be saying what we want town roles to do. > > I’m drawing a complete blank. What exactly did you have in mind, such that I can believe that all your seemingly well-intentioned words on this topic aren’t just hot air? Bolding mine. You use scum for the baddies most of the time. The only time you’ve used wolf is when you questioned if \*\*ToeJam \*\*was a wolf not scum in night 0: > [@Mafia Reunion - NIGHT ZERO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/417): > > It looked like busy-work. Still does. Way too many words to describe a somewhat tortured scenario. Are you a wolf for it? Heck if I know. But it’s a thing. > > Furthermore, I like sinjin’s process in questioning you on it. I’m not ready to call her townie for it with multiple scum teams running around, but it’s a positive sign. And then of course you snuggled me. Are you perhaps in the Mafia **Normal**? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/324 "2017-01-10T03:15:51Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > You have \*\*septimus \*\*listed with one vote, twice…instead of two votes, once. Dag nabbit. I’ll fix it. Grumble ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/325 "2017-01-10T03:41:11Z")
Theory is the best you are gonna get from me. Look to the other mods for precision. DAY ONE VOTE COUNT (as of post 312) As a quick reminder - there are no powers, hidden or open, that can affect the vote count. If you see an apparent discrepancy, it’s the result of moderator error. **colby11** (7 votes) - Texcat (91), Guiri (101), Meeko (130), ToeJam (132), Hockey Monkey (152), Lakai (154), Suburban Plankton (162) **ToeJam** (4 votes) - Captain Klutz (57), Sunny Daze (113), Hooker Chemical (184), sinjin (200) **septimus** (3 votes) Enderw24 (243) , total lost (273), normal phase (322) \*\*Normal Phase \*\*(2 votes) - Johnny Bravo (36), Pleonast (241) **Lakai** (2 votes) - Inner Stickler (257) , snfaulkner (295), ## PLAYERS WITH 1 VOTE: **Meeko** (Drain Bead - 94), **Drain Bead** (Angel - 97), **jsgoddess** (Chronos - 183), **hawkeyeop** (Boozahol Squid PI - 188), **Captain Klutz** (Hoopy Frood - 195), **Johnny Bravo** (bufftabby 259), **snfaulkner** (diggitcamera 264) ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/326 "2017-01-10T03:44:05Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Of the Colby votes, this struck me as the most suspicious. It was bandwagony without any acknowledgement of such. Actually, when I voted it was reaction to the post in my real time (as I am doing right now). I tend to get my thoughts out as I read the thread because I hate trying to multi-quote and if I don’t do things when I think of them I forget. I also will start a post, get distracted by my pesky job that keeps butting in, and get back to it some minutes or hours later, post it, then keep reading. If I get a train of thought running, I can usually hop back on. I had no idea when I posted that anyone else had caught it. If you find it suspicious, I can’t really argue against your feeling, but I can see how it comes off as bandwagony when there were several other votes that were posted ahead of my own. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/327 "2017-01-10T03:47:35Z")
Stuff I think: I think the cases against both \*\*Colby \*\*and **ToeJam** are of good quality for early Day One. I don’t like those who are accusing the\*\* Colby\*\* voters of being lazy or bandwagoning. I’m not putting a vote on it myself right now, but I certainly can see how a reasonable person might find the “slip” damning enough to trigger a vote. And if you do decide to vote based on that, what is there really to say about it _other_ than “me, too!”? By the same token, I don’t like that people are criticizing **Colby** for not being more vocal in his own defense; he has said that he didn’t mean it the way people are interpreting it, and what else could he possibly say about it? I think everyone involved in the **Normal Phase** editing scandal is being silly. I don’t really get the wagon on **septimus.** The timing and rationale for his leap off the **Colby** wagon are certainly weird…possibly even TSTBS? (Too Scummy To Be Scummy) Seems like a scum needing to get off his buddy’s wagon would be more likely to find another wagon and focus on the new candidate rather than simply unvoting. But more to the point, **septimus’** unvote is only scummy if he is **Colby’s** scum teammate…so why are people voting for him now, while \*\*Colby’s \*\* status is still unresolved? In general: it is good for Town to share their opinions with the group. I am against any principles that tend to discourage this. If you think a case against someone is bogus, you should be able to say that without being accused of “defending” that person. If you find someone suspicious but not enough to vote for them, you should be able to say that without being accused of trying to subtly manipulate opinion without leaving a vote record. If you think someone made a good point or is showing pro-Town attitudes, you should be able to say that without being accused of “snuggling”. Of course, scum\* do\* do all these things, but we have to examine each case on its own merits. Simply asserting as a general principle that sharing certain opinions is intrinsically suspicious is lazy and hurts Town by discouraging discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/328 "2017-01-10T03:52:17Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Bolding mine. You use scum for the baddies most of the time. The only time you’ve used wolf is when you questioned if \*\*ToeJam \*\*was a wolf not scum in night 0: > > And then of course you snuggled me. Are you perhaps in the Mafia **Normal**? No, I’m a townie. I use wolf a lot because I’m also playing a board where that is the norm more than mafia is, but you’ll probably see mafia creep in from time to time as well if you look. Please don’t go all scum slippy on me here. And I’d appreciate if the snuggling stuff – at least that based on me or others outright calling each other townie – could die as well. This is a valid way to play and it happens to be one that I like. Ask anyone who played with me in the last game on Giraffe. I gave a whole dissertation on it. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/329 "2017-01-10T03:57:03Z")
Oh, and I still feel good about my vote and reason. Until I see something that pings my rusty scumdar harder, I’ll leave it be. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/330 "2017-01-10T03:57:34Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I don’t really get the wagon on **septimus.** The timing and rationale for his leap off the **Colby** wagon are certainly weird…possibly even TSTBS? (Too Scummy To Be Scummy) Seems like a scum needing to get off his buddy’s wagon would be more likely to find another wagon and focus on the new candidate rather than simply unvoting. But more to the point, **septimus’** unvote is only scummy if he is **Colby’s** scum teammate…so why are people voting for him now, while \*\*Colby’s \*\* status is still unresolved? My vote on Septimus is based on the idea that he is not on the same team as Colby. I have no idea why you would assume it must be the exact opposite, or it’s not scummy. I think a scum Septimus here got in over his head on a bandwagon he began to fear was looking weak, and awkwardly backed out. > [@](#): > > In general: it is good for Town to share their opinions with the group. I am against any principles that tend to discourage this. If you think a case against someone is bogus, you should be able to say that without being accused of “defending” that person. If you find someone suspicious but not enough to vote for them, you should be able to say that without being accused of trying to subtly manipulate opinion without leaving a vote record. If you think someone made a good point or is showing pro-Town attitudes, you should be able to say that without being accused of “snuggling”. > > Of course, scum\* do\* do all these things, but we have to examine each case on its own merits. Simply asserting as a general principle that sharing certain opinions is intrinsically suspicious is lazy and hurts Town by discouraging discussion. Thanks for this, I agree. It’s all in the context. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/331 "2017-01-10T04:01:21Z")
Thinking on it some more, and to be excruciatingly fair, there’s nothing wrong as such with sinjin thinking I was snuggling her in that particular instance. It’s more the principle of the thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/332 "2017-01-10T04:04:53Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > In general: it is good for Town to share their opinions with the group. I am against any principles that tend to discourage this. If you think a case against someone is bogus, you should be able to say that without being accused of “defending” that person. If you find someone suspicious but not enough to vote for them, you should be able to say that without being accused of trying to subtly manipulate opinion without leaving a vote record. If you think someone made a good point or is showing pro-Town attitudes, you should be able to say that without being accused of “snuggling”. But, but…where’s the fun in that? > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Of course, scum\* do\* do all these things, but we have to examine each case on its own merits. Simply asserting as a general principle that sharing certain opinions is intrinsically suspicious is lazy and hurts Town by discouraging discussion. Ha ha, you said doodoo! (Ok, that was seriously not fun to copy and paste coding on my iPad.) ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/333 "2017-01-10T04:18:58Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > But, but…where’s the fun in that? > > Ha ha, you said doodoo! > > (Ok, that was seriously not fun to copy and paste coding on my iPad.) Thanks for the laugh, **Hockey Monkey**. This Day has been a dense read, and we still have nearly six real days to go before EOD. This game is going to be won by attrition. ---
**Author:** ![Colby11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@Colby11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colby11)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/334 "2017-01-10T04:25:52Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Is Colby trying to lurk this away? You of all people should know that I do not lurk unless I have a valid strategic reason to do so. And if my survival was critical to Town’s success, I would be up in arms. But Town can win, with or without me. That is the beauty of Town, is that there is more than 1 player on your team. ---
**Author:** ![Colby11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@Colby11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colby11)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/335 "2017-01-10T04:39:37Z")
Septimus trying to run away from the bandwagon on me is very suspicious. Not because he was voting for me, but he doesn’t have an alternative theory, and I’m the person that pings him the most… So why unvote me? Either they suspects that I’m harmless or that he has information that possibly I am not on his team (meaning they are not town). \*\*Vote Septimus \*\* Meanwhile, this game is already thick with trying to read through everyone’s posts. I think we need a drink or something… Or a cheese platter! Gouda or Swiss? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/336 "2017-01-10T04:46:46Z")
You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. If a bandwagon of votes has flimsy justifications, the people on it should consider switching. I don’t see that as ‘running away’ and if the justification was flimsy going in, why would it be expected to have more substance going out? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/337 "2017-01-10T04:53:26Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @Pleonast – you keep talking about how we she discuss the scum roles instead of the town ones, but I haven’t seen you set a model for doing this yet. How would you envision this to take place? I mean, I read your last post and it looks perfectly reasonable right up until the point where I try to think how I would go about doing this, and I just draw a blank. I have every interest in helping townies to play the game in the way I think would be most beneficial to us to win. I don’t have the slightest interest in helping wolves to do the same, nor would any other townie, obviously. > > So given it’s not a matter of discussing how best to use the scum roles, what is left? Warnings? Like if scum had a watcher or a redirector then certain night actions or certain claims might be problematic, but they don’t have roles like that. And even if they did, we’d still be saying what we want town roles to do. > > I’m drawing a complete blank. What exactly did you have in mind, such that I can believe that all your seemingly well-intentioned words on this topic aren’t just hot air? > [@sinjin](#): > > Bolding mine. You use scum for the baddies most of the time. The only time you’ve used wolf is when you questioned if \*\*ToeJam \*\*was a wolf not scum in night 0: > > And then of course you snuggled me. Are you perhaps in the Mafia **Normal**? **Sinjin** I think you are on to something. Let me expand on this… Literally. \*\* I have every interest in helping townies to play the game in the way I think would be most beneficial to us to win. I don’t have the slightest interest in helping wolves to do the same, nor would any other townie, obviously. \*\* If we assume a non town **Normal** the entire excerpt here takes on different meaning. I think it’s self evident that town players would need to be… weaponized. We will need to do the “heavy lifting” in our votes for non town factions. As for **Colby** as for here. I can and will employ similar thinking. **Would a town Normal need to circumlocute this much?** I have every interest in helping townies to play the game in the way I think would be most beneficial to us to win. “” Should be “” I have every interest in helping townies to play the game in the way that causes town to win. But we get … in the way I think would be most beneficial to us to win. Kinda, “around your ass to find your elbow”. Why take three left turns, when you can take one right turn? (((Meeko is going to wield the Razor here in a second, watch out!))) **Occam’s Razor** [[Or are you guys going to continue to insist I’m using it wrong, again?]] I don’t have the slightest interest in helping wolves to do the same, **What.** Ok. If you are still with me, this is even more …stubble for the razor. We’ve already seen **Normal** take Three left turns, and now he takes three more. I think he’s lost in own slip at this point. A town **Normal** doesn’t say this. He doesn’t say the first line, but if he did, with the ““should be”” revision … This is so much a duplicate, that it doesn’t need to be said. Town’s win condition remains the same, the rest ultimately is window dressing. **This does not need to be said by a Town player.** nor would any other townie, obviously. ## Yeah I mean, obviously… No, really like, why do you have to reassure here? \*\* Are you reassuring yourself?\*\* That is, are you adding ““Meh.”” Here? And the response to this, so far, has been “I use Wolves more than any other, so it’s null” But: you keep talking about how we she discuss the **scum** roles instead of the town ones, Bolding mine. Why the usage of Scum here… If **Normal** favors Wolf … ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/338 "2017-01-10T06:05:26Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Okay. But how does that make Captain Klutz scum? It seems overly opportunistic to me. I read ToeJam’s post as simple confusion. Then agian, Klutz is sticking his neck out by voting for ToeJam for a reason that seems unique compared to the other people voting for him, so I give some credit to Klutz for that. It’s cheap vote in response to a cheap vote. That’s pretty much it. (On a side note, now that I think about it I believe Klutz was the first person I ever voted for in my mafia career, so it seems kind of an odd coincidence that I ended up voting him first in this game.) > [@Enderw24](#): > > With the exception of Masons, Town doesn’t have a board to communicate which means it’s all out in the open. In this game, the Masons can’t communicate privately either, according to the rules. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Crap. I was busy all day yesterday and only am able to start playing now and have a shitload to catch up on now. What no claim yet? > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Errr…thanks for the vote of confidence…but I can assure you that Hal and I are two completely separate people. I’m the one who has always locked his workstation when leaving his desk. But you don’t say anything about how you feel about sheep. I mean, we all know how Hal feels about them. > [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Hi Nate! I hope we’re on the same team this game. (Which is to say that I don’t think using the word team is inherently scummy.) Using the word team isn’t. But going all “I’m not scum and I hope you’re not scum,” especially in Day 1 seems like a perfect case of the “look how townie” I am gambit. (Contrast to the Klutz calling out Roosh/ToeJam thing–which I’m currently voting him for–where Roosh’s response was directly referencing someone else’s statement and I didn’t get any of the “look at me, I’m townie” vibe from it.) Then again, I didn’t see that you posted at all Night 0, so this seems mitigated by that fact. And based on your later posts you hadn’t even read the rules yet since you bring things up that are spelled out in them. (E.g. the two scum team thing.) On the third hand, though, maybe it’s all just part of a feigning ignorance gambit. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/339 "2017-01-10T07:23:54Z")
Again, got busy today, so huge apologies. By the way, I’m **vanilla Town**. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/340 "2017-01-10T08:27:34Z")
\*\*Hal Briston \*\* and \*\*Daphne Black \*\* were both logged in on Monday, but dis not even a simple friendly nod in our thread. Why, I wonder? **Winston Smith** : appears to have been logged in on saturday. I understand life getting hard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=18)