# Mafia Reunion - Day One **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 7, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577 "2017-01-07T22:01:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/401 "2017-01-10T20:17:15Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > [Snip] > Votes are free, and you can change it if something better comes along. > [and snip] Push as much as you want, I’m not gonna place a vote now if I don’t feel it’s a worthwhile one. If you have a problem with that, place down a vote or piss off. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/402 "2017-01-10T20:18:38Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Push as much as you want, I’m not gonna place a vote now if I don’t feel it’s a worthwhile one. If you have a problem with that, place down a vote or piss off. Whoa, someone forgot we’re playing a game, nice one. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/403 "2017-01-10T20:25:19Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I _knew_ this was going to happen. I’d sign up for a massive game, have a few things get in the way from reading, and come in ridiculously overwhelmed. > > I haven’t read anything at all from Day One yet – just responding to the well-deserved mod nag PMs – so it’s time to do some clearly-a-scum-tell skimming and share my thoughts later today. You haven’t missed much. \*\*Idle \*\*is Vanilla Town (again!), \*\*Meeko \*\*is…Meeko, and by my count there have only been 1.5 sheep jokes so far. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/404 "2017-01-10T20:25:22Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I was too quick to quip here… You actually mentioned me above the role,claim…:smack: > > 😃 > > It’s when I’m not being me… Low post count, employed… That you have to,worry about. [[Sadly, those two are positively correlated… And I believe I’m post leader yet again in this game. …:(]] That wasn’t really directed at you as any kind of evidence. It’s merely an example of a non-defense defense. I know your playstyle by reputation (and that reputation may overstate it based on this game so far), but for somebody who’s never heard stories of Meeko, you’d be an easy and earnest D1 vote unless people came in to say they’ve played with you and your quirks are not scum tells. (I should have stuck with the Bob framing to keep it clearer but I thought a fairly well known example might help.) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/405 "2017-01-10T20:27:36Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I disagree. The information in the public profile is one way to learn something about a player. It’s not as if these three have any in-game posts to brood over. What say others? Half and half. I think “logged in” is a poor indicator, I think “posted elsewhere but not here” is a valid indicator IF and only IF we are decided that we are lynching lurkers, and I think in general I don’t like the post count police. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/406 "2017-01-10T20:28:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I am not a good player, Town or Scum, _ **but there’s no way I would have made that attention-grabbing unvote if I were Scum!** _ So you’re saying “Scum wouldn’t do that”? I stand by what I said in the Night 0 thread: > [@Mafia Reunion - NIGHT ZERO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/88): > > Just to get all of this out of the way up front: no to “no Lynch”; no to mass claims; Scotch, single malt, neat, during Night phases please, Scum would \*totally \*do that; and \*\*Idle \*\*is obviously Scum this time around. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/407 "2017-01-10T20:28:12Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > If I recall correctly, septimus was an early vote on Colby, so at the time septimus wouldn’t necessarily have known the bandwagony nature of the Colby situation. Though I should go back and verify what the situation was when septimus voted for Colby and whether or not his ‘bandwagons are bad’ defense makes sense. Put it on the to do list. Septimus votes for Colby in post 106. At the time there were a some singleton votes on various players (I think, I can’t be sure. Well, I mean I could, but I’m too lazy right now. The official vote counts aren’t showing removed votes. If anyone is tracking both, posting that information could be helpful). Anyway, Colby had two votes all within the previous 15-ish posts. So in a field of singletons Colby went from zero to three from post 91 to 106. I can’t say that septimus’s vote for Colby is super bandwagony, but it also isn’t completely innocuous either. I judge it borderline. It definitely isn’t anti-bandwagon in the sense that it made Colby a candidate along with someone else, but I don’t think I can say it would clearly lead to a bandwagon either. But here’s were I trip myself up, if _one actually believed the Colby slip_, then a bandwagon should have been foreseen. In other words, since septimus found the Colby slip to be merit worthy, a bandwagon should have been expected. This rabbit hole is getting a bit too deep. I will regroup. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/408 "2017-01-10T20:32:52Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Whoa, someone forgot we’re playing a game, nice one. 😛 No offense meant, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/409 "2017-01-10T20:39:07Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Septimus votes for Colby in post 106. At the time there were a some singleton votes on various players (I think, I can’t be sure. Well, I mean I could, but I’m too lazy right now. The official vote counts aren’t showing removed votes. If anyone is tracking both, posting that information could be helpful). Anyway, Colby had two votes all within the previous 15-ish posts. So in a field of singletons Colby went from zero to three from post 91 to 106. > > I can’t say that septimus’s vote for Colby is super bandwagony, but it also isn’t completely innocuous either. I judge it borderline. It definitely isn’t anti-bandwagon in the sense that it made Colby a candidate along with someone else, but I don’t think I can say it would clearly lead to a bandwagon either. But here’s were I trip myself up, if _one actually believed the Colby slip_, then a bandwagon should have been foreseen. In other words, since septimus found the Colby slip to be merit worthy, a bandwagon should have been expected. > > This rabbit hole is getting a bit too deep. I will regroup. When \*\*septimus \*\*placed his vote on \*\*Colby \*\*(post 106) that made the count: \*\*Colby11 \*\*(3): TexCat (91), GuiriEnEspaña (101), septimus (106) **Normal Phase** (1): Johnny Bravo (36) \*\*AngeloftheNorth \*\*(1): snfaulkner (37) **Johnny Bravo** (1): Meeko (41) \*\*ToeJam \*\*(1): Captain Klutz (57) \*\*Meeko \*\*(1): Drain Bead (94) **Drain Bead** (1): AngeloftheNorth (97) **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** (1): Normal Phase (102) Prior to that, septimus had a vote on **Pleonast** , so what had been a 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 contest then became a whopping 2-vote margin runaway. I didn’t think his vote was worthy of comment; I think his unvote and subsequent explanation are more ‘interesting’. Yes, I have a problem; spreadsheet addiction is a disease… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/410 "2017-01-10T20:46:16Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Is the color here to be taken as gospel? Is that an inappropriate question to ask? \*\*I must be dense or something. I have re-read the related role pm’s and your question and I just don’t know what you are asking. Not ignoring your question, but not sure what you mean. The role pm’s for those roles are, I think, clear and totally accurate. Please feel free to restate, though.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/411 "2017-01-10T20:46:26Z")
On the subject of “bandwagons”: A town player shouldn’t need to give any consideration to whether or not they are joining, or causing, a “bandwagon”. They have no special knowledge, so they should vote for the person they think is most likely to be Scum. If that person also happens to be suspected by a great number of other players, then it’s a “bandwagon”…and there’s probably a good reason for it. But to not place a vote on someone you think is Scum, simply because “a lot of other people are voting for him”, is not pro-Town behavior. At best, it’s misguided but innocent; at worst it’s a sign that you know the person is innocent, and are trying to find a way to avoid being associated with their lynch. If you think Player A is likely to be Scum, then vote for Player A. If you don’t then don’t. By all means, base your decision in part on what other players are saying, but don’t base it on who other players are voting for. Not this early in the game, and not this early in the Day. As someone said upthread: votes are cheap, and you can change them all you want. As the game moves on, the most important source of information that the Town has is the voting record - if you don’t vote, then there’s no record. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/412 "2017-01-10T20:49:06Z")
@Guiri: I kinda agree with you on both Prof. Preppywicker and Biotop (and myself actually, I suspect you might not have reached the post where I explain a bit more of _why_ I’m slow, to Normal Phase…). Especially Biotop is usually heavy on analysis and less on the chit-chatty side of things. Prof. is more of a coin toss if you ask me. I just managed a second read through of Day 1, yay. Poke **vote Biotop** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/413 "2017-01-10T20:49:18Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I think you misunderstood my question, if Colby’s comment was a good catch but not enough for an early D1 vote, I can’t imagine what sort of evidence would be enough to place a vote on D1 of D1- votes are free… I’ve been burned a few too many times by coming out super-aggressive and I’m trying to be more laid back. The volume of posts vs. my available time is not helping the matter. =P That said, I think I will get on the record… > [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > I didn’t post Night 0, I didn’t read Night 0, I haven’t read the rules Stop right there. In a game about information, you don’t avail yourself of free, high-quality information? **vote AngeloftheNorth** I have plenty of patience for lurkers, but this smacks of either affected naivete or unproductive unconcern. I do still also suspect **Colby11** , but I want to observe how they react to the ongoing ebb and flow of votes longer before I commit over there. Misphrasing MAY be a scum tell, but actively ignoring information is blatantly anti-town. * * * **Normal Phase** is in a lesser version of the same boat as **Colby11** , in my book, but he’s also proffered a reasonable explanation for his verbal confusion over what the bad guys are called singly and collectively. Personally, I think we all should be making an extra effort to be super clear on whether we’re talking about “scum”, “mafia”, or “wolves”. Right now it’s mostly not as important as if (for example) we get to endgame with the two scum teams imbalanced relative to each other, so let’s start forming good habits now. * * * I’m actually amused that the **Idle Claims** thing is so ingrained it’s only been mentioned in a meta sense when explaining what’s happened so far. =P * * * I’m with \*\*Plankton \*\*on the “Scum WOULD do that” thing, if “that” is "deliberately mix ‘conventional wisdom’ scum tells with ‘conventional wisdom’ town tells in order to generate as much free WIFOM as possible. Doubly so, I’d think, when we’ve got two scum teams trying to hide from each other as well as from us. * * * I’m spending a lot of time thinking about ways the two scum teams could change their play in light of the fact there are two of them, because IIRC this is the first game I’ve been in with more than one true scum team (not counting third parties, or Malazan, natch). I suggest everyone spend some cogitation time on “what would a scum do differently knowing there’s a second scum team that also needs to go” and work from there–ideally, by a later Day at least some of us will have some ideas that might match play patterns in-game that wouldn’t (by virtue of them being kept under our hats until then) be able to be gamed by scum (as I’m sure “third vote is always…” and such are). ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/414 "2017-01-10T20:53:13Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > \*\*I must be dense or something. I have re-read the related role pm’s and your question and I just don’t know what you are asking. Not ignoring your question, but not sure what you mean. > > The role pm’s for those roles are, I think, clear and totally accurate. Please feel free to restate, though.\*\* > [@](#): > > Welcome to the game; you are The Patsy. > > [snip] > > BACKGROUND: > Hi, Clemenza! Welcome to town! Glad you left organized crime behind you!. Hope you enjoyed being in the game preview! This isn’t anyone’s favorite role to have gotten, but someone always needs to be the patsy. We do not apologize. **And if you don’t recognize the Clemenza reference… shame on you.** Shame. (Note from Doug: I see what you did there). Clemenza, I guess refers to Peter Clemenza, in The Godfather? I’m trying to ascertain if it’s safe to assume that if a Homicide Detective or a Seer investigates the Patsy, they’d get a Mafioso result. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/415 "2017-01-10T20:58:49Z")
And no, I don’t believe you’re dense, I think I’m unintentionally cryptic or something. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/416 "2017-01-10T21:16:42Z")
@ Septimus – Thanks. Your story does add up. I would still really like to hear your thoughts on your suspects. Names alone doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/417 "2017-01-10T21:22:26Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Clemenza, I guess refers to Peter Clemenza, in The Godfather? > > I’m trying to ascertain if it’s safe to assume that if a Homicide Detective or a Seer investigates the Patsy, they’d get a Mafioso result. My read of the role is that the investigation result would say “Chickpea is Town,” or “Chickpea is Scum,” or “Chickpea is Third Party.” The “Wolf or Mafia” thing in parentheses is, I think, to show what is included under the scum umbrella definition, not to show that they would say “Chickpea is Scum (Wolf)” or “Chickpea is Scum (Mafia).” That’s my read. And hopefully if I’m wrong, Mahaloth will be able to piece together the right question from our combined comments! ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/418 "2017-01-10T21:25:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > And so on. I don’t mind being pressed for details on my motivations, but bufftabby pressed for details and then voted me for spending too much time on the topic. > > I don’t understand your problem with the first thing you quoted from me. I disagree with your characterization of what buff tabby did, but I’m not going to dwell on it anymore. Your Meeko exchange makes no sense to me in any way shape or form. I tried to respond to it and make comments, but I simply couldn’t. I have no idea where to start with so many weird and wrong things there. > [@septimus](#): > > To save you the bother, I knew I was “about 3rd” on the Colby wagon and otherwise didn’t know the count. I considered not voting then for the same reason I later unvoted, but it seemed better to go on record and remove my very flimsy vote on Pleonast. What do you mean, by “better?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/419 "2017-01-10T21:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte;19910548 Your Meeko exchange makes no sense to me in any way shape or form. [/QUOTE] If it’s helpful, I don’t really understand my exchange with Meeko either. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/420 "2017-01-10T21:40:16Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Clemenza, I guess refers to Peter Clemenza, in The Godfather? > > I’m trying to ascertain if it’s safe to assume that if a Homicide Detective or a Seer investigates the Patsy, they’d get a Mafioso result. I got you. The Patsy is town and not a member of the Doperville mafia. The journalist investigation will reflect that. Cops though, man, cops don’t care about who you are only who you were. So he shows up as scum. This one isn’t really that hard, you are over thinking it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=22)