# Mafia Reunion - Day One **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 7, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577 "2017-01-07T22:01:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/561 "2017-01-11T20:00:18Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > No, I’ve said about 45 times now that I am trying to read it and having difficulty, and didn’t think that was a good reason to stay out of the game until I was able to. And I’m voting you because you’re deliberately putting words in my mouth that I’m not saying. I see. Someone else wrote this: > [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > I didn’t post Night 0, I didn’t read Night 0, I haven’t read the rules, and I have never actually seen scum use the “I’M SO DAMN TOWN” gambit. Make of that what you will. My apologies. Should I change my vote to that person? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/562 "2017-01-11T20:04:31Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > This one? > > I thought I already addressed it: Wish we kept embedded quotes here. Anyway, I guess that addresses your surface-level idea, but I still think there’s a deeper concern, in that the quote you included still talks about town roles. There’s just as much of a risk of outing town roles when the only way you can talk about the scum ones is to talk about how they impact town. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/563 "2017-01-11T20:10:20Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Personally, I read all of the "rules’, but I haven’t read in detail all of the role descriptions, their powers, and how they all might interact. There’s simply too much information to keep it all straight at this point, and frankly most of it is irrelevant at this stage of the game, since no Powers have yet been activated. Except for maybe the individual Wolf powers, the Mafia kill, the Patsy’s passive power, the Detective, the Journalist (unless they’re saving it for toNight), the EMT, the Wizard (unless they’re saving it in general), and the Zoning Inspector. But sure, other than those, they’re are no active powers at this point. > [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > In answer to your question about Guiri, Toejam, and Lakai, for the latter two, I felt like they were jumping on a bandwagon rather than really thinking about the issue. I’m thinking about this and I may be wrong because AFAIK they don’t know Colby. For Guiri, it’s just the sort of thing he does as scum and it makes me wary. > > Re Boozy, I just explained this in my post to him but I’ll explain it again. Only Booz Squid is repeatedly saying things about me that directly contradict what I actually said. What about your finding of the case(s) against septimus as bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/564 "2017-01-11T20:11:56Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I see. Someone else wrote this: > > My apologies. Should I change my vote to that person? Are you deliberately trying to bait me? I said a few posts below this that this part is the only valid part of your argument. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/565 "2017-01-11T20:13:37Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Except for maybe the individual Wolf powers, the Mafia kill, the Patsy’s passive power, the Detective, the Journalist (unless they’re saving it for toNight), the EMT, the Wizard (unless they’re saving it in general), and the Zoning Inspector. > > But sure, other than those, they’re are no active powers at this point. > > What about your finding of the case(s) against septimus as bullshit? Sorry, I forgot to answer that. Septimus acts this way when he’s town, and anyone who has played with him knows that. I think he’s always an easy lynch target, and has not done anything yet that is truly worth suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/566 "2017-01-11T20:20:38Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Sorry, I forgot to answer that. Septimus acts this way when he’s town, and anyone who has played with him knows that. I think he’s always an easy lynch target, and has not done anything yet that is truly worth suspicion. Okay, but that’s a far cry from the cases being bullshit. You might not agree with them because you believe this is how a townie septimus acts, but that doesn’t make them bullshit. Oh, and on a side note to the game as a whole, I might not be around much near the end of Day. I have a lot on my plate this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/567 "2017-01-11T20:20:48Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Are you deliberately trying to bait me? I said a few posts below this that this part is the only valid part of your argument. Christ’s wounds. What’s the invalid part, then? ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/568 "2017-01-11T20:23:51Z")
I’ve done my best with tags and quotes to make this followable. Nested quotes are a pain, so I’ve inserted the speaker’s name where appropriate. ToeJam, beginning with N0.412, because that’s the post that put him on my radar: **Day Zero** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902427&postcount=412](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902427&postcount=412) > [@](#): > > [spoiler] > Sinjin, Guiri, Normal Phase > Is there anything I can help to clear up on why you 3 find me suspicious? Sinjin had questions, so I can address those. The other two just snuggled up behind SJ, so I’ll be here waiting to hear from you guys. > > Sinjin: > Do you have issues with me thinking out loud? When I went through the paragraph (hereyou quoteit), I showed my work. > > You quote portions of my statements, and ask why did I bring up the previous one- because I don’t want to leave them out. If I present only one side of an argument, that’s kinda scummy. I want to consider both sides (and as you pointed me pointing out- I even stated that one option is LESS likely, and the other is more likely). > > Now, you ask why would scum kill the Patsy (your third statement)? Because of what I said afterwards- The Scum factions ALSO have to deal with the WIFOM that the Patsy is a false claim. It’s not likely, but Each scum faction has to worry about the possibility that the OTHER scum faction might have done it. > That doesn’t really matter early game (especially for Town), but late game- the scum group is going to get antys about the idea of a False claiming Patsy, and since it’d add to their kills if it WAS a real patsy, and if it WAS a fake-claim, it’d be pro-Scum to take out the Patsy the further we get into the late game. > > It’s all WIFOM. But it’s more and more WIFOM for the Scum the later it gets into the game with an uncounterclaimed Patsy (who ideally should be town, because… as I noted, it’d be really really risky for scum to counterclaim and trade 1:1 that early in the game, putting them immediately behind the other scum group). Hence the Doc’s get to WIFOM if they want to protect a potential Townie role that ScumA might actually be thinking about killing. > > That’s what I meant by my lines on the matter. > Also, if you notice- I do at the end summarize my thinking aloud with what I actually DO think of the whole matter:Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. > > That’s the takeaway. The rest of it is WIFOM if you’re scum, if you’re a doctor, and if you’re not town. Which is what I want to do. I want to pour WIFOM for scum. I’m not going to make it easier on them. And if you’re scum, you better continue to expect such WIFOM. > > If you’re town, just ask me to clarify, and I will clarify (or I’ll probably clarify on my own, as I did there in that post). > > So now, Sinjin, you’re fine. ButNormal Phase, Guiri. What’s up? It’s rather easy to jump on and go “me too”, but if you’ve actually got Qs, I’m still alive. Otherwise, I’ll just keep your snuggling in mind for the future.[/spoiler] Like I said previously, this post comes off as way too accommodating and deferential. I know a lot of people find unanswered questions to be a potential tell, and this post appears to be determined to answer them in the most non-confrontational way possible and get people to look elsewhere. On reread, there’s a nice little smudge of Guiri and Normal Phase for snuggling, for bonus measure. For the record, here’s sinjin’s post that seems to have precipitated this: > [@](#): > > [ToeJam] > Put me in the list of people who feel the Patsy should claim Day 1. If anything, it puts scum into an awkward position of do they want to pre-emptively claim patsy day 1 (in which case the Actual patsy can counter claim as this is an open setup), > [sinjin] > This makes no sense. Scum would not be put into an awkward position. There is no reason for them to do a one for one exchange on day one. > [ToeJam] > or (more likely) scum would stay silent, the actual patsy would claim their role, > > [sinjin] > Yes, this is vastly more likely. Why did you even bring up your previous scenario? > > [ToeJam] > and then we can start the ball rolling on the day with the doctors having the WIFOM of dealing with Patsy and Scum WIFOMing to waste a kill on the patsy. > This makes little sense as well. Why would scum bother to kill the Patsy early on? The Patsy is basically vanilla. Scum have a huge pond with losto bigger fish right in front of them. Why would a doc protect a vanilla player on day one when they can protect a known power role? > [ToeJam] > Obv. the investigators and Vig should avoid Patsy, but then if things get closer to end game and the patsy’s still alive then we’ll see what’s up. > > [sinjin] > If the claimed patsy does not turn up dead or is not counter-claimed by end game what exactly do you think is going to turn up? > [ToeJam] > Though in those cases, i feel like the Patsy would end up becoming a ScumKill likely by the scum team that feels that the Patsy is a false-claim by the other scum team. > > [sinjin] > Really? And now you’ve circled back to your crazy original scenario of a scum claiming Patsy on day one with the added feature that the original Patsy is still alive and hasn’t counter-claimed. > > [ToeJam] > Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. > > [sinjin] > All in all this is a seriously weird post with outlandish scenarios. I really don’t know what to make of it. All things considered, it’s a very mild questioning. The response is overly complicated and convoluted for what should be a straight forward answer (the Patsy should claim and be semi-confirmed). [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902457&postcount=415](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902457&postcount=415) > [@](#): > > [spoiler] > > [Pleonast] > If you feel a need to discuss roles, let’s focus on what the Scum roles might do. What tactics and gambits should we be prepared for. How Mafia and Wolves might try to coordinate. How third parties might try to. > > [Toejam] > Isn’t that doing the Scum’s Job for them? > Day 1: I think the Patsy Claim would force scum to make a decision- counterclaim vs. let the townies gain a “town” role. It’s really disadvantageous for scum to counterclaim- primarily because much of the Scum roles are power roles, and a 1:1 trade would set that team behind the other scum team (I could see the Mook or the most ‘generic’ Scum member maybe considering the counter-claim, but again- less likely. The fact that there’s two competing scum groups makes it advantageous for the Town to have the Patsy claim, because the town wants to have the two scum groups deal with each other as much as possible. That’s why early on, Town has the numbers game, but also the fact that the two groups are equal. The longer that two scum groups are equal- the more the two scum groups are going to want to prioritize taking other the other team. > > That’s why it’d be ideal to try to keep the numbers even, but I see no easy obvious way to know which scum group is which and killing them A,B,A,B, etc. So as a Townie, I’d say lynching the scummiest as much as possible, and if it’s all from one team, it’ll only make that team all the more desperate to want to root out the other scum group because they suddenly have just as much to lose when the town goes down. > > That’s what I’m prepared for. Anything more than that- I can’t really think of it off the top. I mean, there’s the basics- you mix your scums up- you put someone in the lurkers, you put some in the super townie group, you put someone in the helpful townies, you put someone in the antagonist townie role, someone in the snuggling role, and then you have them interact with each other and fight and you spread out your votes and try to blend in. But that’s Mafia 101 across the board, and I think you know that too. > Did you have something else in mind? I’m always pro-discussion and I’m glad to see the ball rolling in productive posts at least. > [Pleonast] > And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. > > [Toejam] > Did the Mods Clarify this or did I miss something. Do the Scum get their own boards? They must if they’re coordinating who to kill and all, or did I miss something here? > > -Are you assuming that there are no Scum Boards? > > Did Mafia change really that much since I’ve been gone?[/spoiler] This is general strategy discussion and there’s not much to be gained from it as far as scum/town leans go. In response to sachertorte, who finds issue with ToeJam’s concern about appearing suspicious and being too deferential. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902962&postcount=441](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902962&postcount=441) > [@](#): > > Too deferential? I noted I found all 3 suspicious, but you feel I’m not aggressive enough towards them? Do I need to really FOS them or something? It’s early in the game, and I want to keep track of players for myself, but I do not want to keep any notes/spreadsheets for this game, so I need to keep people in mind for myself, so I will be bringing them up. > As for play styles- I know it’s been a while, but I am a fan of being aggressive, I dislike quiet “me too” votes, and I will always ask those who FOS/Vote for me to explain themselves, because when I i inevitably get lynched, it will at least provide data to the town to go over, rather than a bunch of “Oh, well this person made an argument, and then we had 4 people agreeing with that assessment when they voted.” That does NOT help the town in the long run. > > As for thePleonast Question- Thanks for the clarification. I thought I had read it right, because the idea of various scum factions coordinating seemed too out there, but I see I misinterpreted his statement. In that case- I find it unlikely that scum will cross-communicate (because they have vested interest in taking the other group out more than even us townies). The vote that pinged me hardest was the super deferential tone of Post N0.412, but here he’s claiming an aggressive playstyle. Later posts sure don’t back up that aggressive style and seem content to lurk or **Day 1** ToeJam had 12 posts N0, which lasted 3 days. ToeJam has 5 posts, and we’re 4 days into D1. I get that schedules and availability fluctuate, but it looks like somebody who attracted suspicion and wants to drop off the radar. Posts 123 and 124 (124 is a repost of 123 with fixed tags) ([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905230&postcount=124](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905230&postcount=124)) [quote] [spoiler] And now I have the WIFOM of do I edit my post to fix my bolding errors or not? lol. That bold should have stopped after my name. Well, let’s just quote and fix it here, no? Preview post is my friend. Here you go if you want the non-bolded version: NETA: > [@ToeJam](#): > > Hey guys! > Yes. I’mRoosh, the Shoeless GastardMod from the old old mafia games (Though I changed my name toToeJamand played a few games on Giraffe before I had left for the last 6-8 years or so. I guess I assumed that people recalled that info, and it’s why I tend to sign my posts “-R”, but I hadn’t realized that some people might not recognize the SN. > > But yes, I do have old habits. > I do tend to play ridiculously Townie always. Even as scum. I tend to post in spurts or long screeds at time, and I’m pro-helpful Townie actions like vote-counts and such, and I can get a bit heated at times (SorryIdle), intentionally provoking players to see if they can give tells, and tend to play aggressively. I have… some odd/controversial thoughts when it comes to how to play Town in Mafia. > But yeah, I’ve got some free time, and I’m glad to be back and playing with you guys! > > Now back to the Game: > > SoSunny Daze,Ullz- I can’t really defend myself against accusations of “too quick to sound townie” or “he posts a lot and tries to sound Townie”. I would argue that THAT is my playstyle, and regardless of if I’m Town or Scum, I would take excess measures to do it for consistencies sake. > I would also argue that I tend to play lazier when I’m Town vs. when I’m scum, and I know the argument, “I’m really really good at playing scum” isn’t a great one- but that’s my retort toSatch. You pointed out on N0, I’m being a bit deferential to the players- well, it’s been a while since I’ve been on the Dope, and I know my playstyle… can be offputting. I guess I am slightly intimidated in returning to Mafia, and knowing that my excess posting can quickly take over. My goal is to avoid that (and I am no longer the mafia player of old- I simply cannot spend hours tracking stuff anymore, but rather an hour or two every few days checking in), hence the no notes and all comment. > > Now, On to the Rest: > > re:Colby > -The “Slip up” does seem like that- a slip up. There are a minimum of 3-4 teams at play here. Even if you just go “Scum, 3rd Party, Town”, I tend myself to say Town vs. “Not Town”, but I will clarify the groups out for clarity’s sake. While the slip up is suspicious, I don think he’ll have a lot to say to defend himself other than the “Town vs. Not-Town” Defense. So the idea of this lynch is fair. I agree it’s better than a Policy Lynch, or a Lynch the Lurker vote currently. But I think there’s plenty more day to go. > > –More interestingly will be watching how the voting piles up. That’s always the meat of things. Because if I was scum, the whole point of being scum is you win as a team, and no one person is greater than the rest (minus the head guy)- so the goal is to diversify. So while some people are saying they’re most suspicious of the lurkers, or they’re suspicious of the fluff posters- the key is that scum will be in ALL of them, hence it’s good to be suspicious of all. Scum will want to vote early onto their own, they’ll want to defend their own, and they’ll want to lurk even. The key is tracking behaviors across the board and over time. > > –\> That’s why I’m keeping an eye out on those players. I can seeAngle, Nestaare more active now and hopefully that’ll continue over the course of the days. Because Night0 was important, and just saying “it’s all fluff, so I didn’t read it”, does make me think of scum trying to hide by staying low in post counts (but rarely do scum NEVER post. It’s more of flying under the radar than at 0). > > –\>That’s why I believe Day 1 votes DO get more importantover the courseof the game. (to put my 2 cents in). Because we have more Data on each of the voting patterns of the Town/Non-Town players as we have more known dead bodies.[/spoiler] The “I try to sound townie as scum” defense is pretty much a non-defense. It’s acknowledging that the tone people are picking up is consistent with his scum game. But even that isn’t saying much because scum almost always wants to “play townie.” The problem with N0.412 isn’t that it’s a townie post responding to questions. It’s the tone of that response and just how damn friendly and responsive it’s trying to be. That’s completely at odds with the “aggressive” and “offputting” playstyle he’s claiming. Vote Count Post: ([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905276&postcount=128](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905276&postcount=128)) Strictly informational post. No scum/town information here. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905303&postcount=132](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905303&postcount=132) > [@](#): > > [spoiler] > Thoughts on voting at this time. Not much to make of it. > –I can see where the worry over a “bandwagon” - can come about, as the votes quickly came in for Colby11- accumulating 3 votes of 6 cast in a period from post #91-106 (about 2 hours from around 840am to 10:38am), but that could be the nature of people getting up and actively posting at that time. > –The other high activity period was early on- the first 3 votes cast in posts 36,37, and 41. Again, too early for a pattern. But it’s data none the less. > –Total votes cast so far is 10, with plenty of suspicions abound. Do I think there’s a scum vote or two in those 10 votes, certainly. But can I say which one just yet? Not sure which one it is. I will say of the two votes on me, both are similar arguments (Variants on "he’s too pro-town"arguments),Klutz- I’m more familiar with having played games with (and the crappier argument), whileSunnyis a bit unfamiliar to me, and went for a Shakespearean one liner to vote for me after just quoting my post. It seems a bit too “me too”-ish of a vote. > > Let’s get a vote on the board: > Vote Colby11 > -The slip up is an odd choice of words. His defense is likely to be “Town vs. other team is all else”, but this early into the game Slip Ups are better than policy votes and poke votes or lurker/random votes and I think will def. foster discussion and it will be interesting to see how the votes go down afterwards. > > FOS: Sunny Daze- I feel the vote against me is more of a “me too” vote compared to Klutz’s vote, but it’s not the scummiest vote of the day so far, it’s just a bad vote in my mind. > -R[/spoiler] His opinion on Colby went from “The “Slip up” does seem like that- a slip up.” (Post D1.123) to “The slip up is an odd choice of words” and voting Colby. The FOS on Sunny is weak. Sunny makes a case that I agree with. The vote is presented with the case. It may be a gut feeling case rather than a misstatement, scummy acts, or rule-based case, but I’m pretty comfortable with that on D1. (IMO, Klutz’s vote is the weaker of the two cases, but I still buy it for a D1 vote.) This post, combined with Post D1.123, pings me hard for the flipped opinion and the baseless FOS. D1.133, responding to Meeko: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905308&postcount=133](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905308&postcount=133) Fluff. I will note that content to fluff is solid. This post is included for completeness sake. > [@](#): > > Yeah. Just a shout out to one of my fav. Mafia players. It’s purely an OOG shoutout, and not related to this game. More of just a > > for them. If you need the story behind it… well you can ask Geady himself or just read Arkham. My vote stays on ToeJam. I’m confident in that vote for a D1 vote. The initial ping is reinforced by the self-description of being aggressive and confrontational, the 180 in positions on Colby, and the drop off in content once ToeJam drew too much attention. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/569 "2017-01-11T20:26:10Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Tell you what, **sache** , I’ll up the ante a bit. > > **unvote: hawkeyepoop > vote: AngeloftheNorth** > > I don’t know who scum is. But I sure know that deliberately and admittedly doing something that is anti-Town, based on the reasoning that “Scum wouldn’t do that” is irritating as hell, and not something we need in this game. I don’t know a thing about how **Angel** normally plays, but I don’t see the need to keep around someone who admits she isn’t going to bother to keep up with the posted rules, much less all the other goings on in-game. This: I admitted I hadn’t read the rules. I also said repeatedly that I would when I got a chance. And I never said anywhere I wouldn’t bother to keep up with all the other goings on in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/570 "2017-01-11T20:28:03Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I don’t get the “bandwagon” (for lack of a better term) on **AngeloftheNorth**. If I understand the reasoning, “not reading the rules” is not necessarily Scummy, but openly stating that you have’t read the rules _is_. Is there more to it than that? Just repeating until I it’s understood 🙂 > [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Just for the record: I didn’t place a > “you’re being anti-town” vote. > My vote wasn’t placed on you for not reading the rules. > My vote was placed because when people asked you about it, you simply replied with a “yes it is anti-town. But would scum do that?” For me it’s the using of a reverse logic. That she did something so anti-town that it should give her extra townie-point because Scum wouldn’t do that. It’s the asking to be regarded as more likely Town based solemnly on an anti-town action. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Which one of us is the weird uncle who turns out to be a racist after he gets a few drinks in him? I don’t know yet 🙂 But I wanna be the lady with blue teeth from drinking red wine dancing on the floor like no one is watching 😉 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/571 "2017-01-11T20:29:00Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Sorry, wrong color up there. > > \*\* vote: AngeloftheNorth\*\* > > Sorry, I failed to differentiate that you would eventually get around to checking the rules out. Hopefully, in time for the end of the day, but if not, well, at least you got some kind of vote in, right? And if not, you could always just swing your vote around to someone voting for you: that’s a sure sign of scumminess in your book, right? This: I’m not voting you for voting me, I’m voting you for deliberately twisting every single thing I say, which is scum technique 101. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/572 "2017-01-11T20:30:53Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Which one of us is the weird uncle who turns out to be a racist after he gets a few drinks in him? Can I be the unemployed cousin who shows up halfway through dinner with a mostly empty bucket of fried chicken and ends up in a shouting match grandma? ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/573 "2017-01-11T20:37:09Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > No, I’ve said about 45 times now that I am trying to read it and having difficulty, and didn’t think that was a good reason to stay out of the game until I was able to. And I’m voting you because you’re deliberately putting words in my mouth that I’m not saying. > > The one valid thing you’ve said about me is that I said I wouldn’t admit I hadn’t read the rules if I were scum. You don’t buy that, fine. But every other point on me is actually the exact opposite of what I said, and I find that pretty scummy. And this-- your response is to attempt to “school” me by quoting back to me the part that I said _was_ valid. So either you’re not actually reading what I’m saying or pure more interested in scoring points by looking clever than interested in the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/574 "2017-01-11T20:37:37Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > This: I admitted I hadn’t read the rules. I also said repeatedly that I would when I got a chance. And I never said anywhere I wouldn’t bother to keep up with all the other goings on in the game. Here’s the problem. It’s wrong to try to get a handle on what’s going on without the right background information. That is, unless you don’t care about your results, and you’re just trying to make statements that make you seem like you’re interested in the game. That’s scummy by itself. That’s not twisting your words. That’s interpreting them. Perhaps without the most charitable of interpretations, but I don’t somehow owe you the benefit of the doubt here on Day One. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/575 "2017-01-11T20:38:46Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Okay, but that’s a far cry from the cases being bullshit. You might not agree with them because you believe this is how a townie septimus acts, but that doesn’t make them bullshit. > > Oh, and on a side note to the game as a whole, I might not be around much near the end of Day. I have a lot on my plate this weekend. I think they are bullshit because I think the people making the arguments know this is how Septimus acts. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/576 "2017-01-11T20:40:05Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > And this-- your response is to attempt to “school” me by quoting back to me the part that I said _was_ valid. So either you’re not actually reading what I’m saying or pure more interested in scoring points by looking clever than interested in the truth. I still don’t see what part of my issues with your take on this game are problematic, so you’ll have to forgive me when I come across a bit confused on what I need to be showing you from your own statements are the problem. Actually, I don’t really care. I’m done with playing to your smokescreen. I’m content with voting for you, and I think you’re now just trying to raise a ruckus in order to distract from more meaningful conversation today. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/577 "2017-01-11T20:43:49Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Here’s the problem. It’s wrong to try to get a handle on what’s going on without the right background information. That is, unless you don’t care about your results, and you’re just trying to make statements that make you seem like you’re interested in the game. That’s scummy by itself. > That’s not twisting your words. That’s interpreting them. Perhaps without the most charitable of interpretations, but I don’t somehow owe you the benefit of the doubt here on Day One. I find your first sentence here reasonable, except for the fact that it makes no sense to me that you think I would try to look interested in the game by admitting I hadn’t read the rules. Putting that aside, I think it’s a fair statement to say that it’s wrong to try to get a handle on what’s going on without the background information. However, it is more than an uncharitable interpretation, it’s downright putting words in my mouth, to state that I said I wouldn’t bother keeping up with the other doings on in the game. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/578 "2017-01-11T20:46:25Z")
My plan was to post little until late in Day and then examine the cases on Lynch leaders. I suspect some of the low posters have a similar plan. I can hear you ready to click Reply and say “Anti-Town! You should be looking for Scum actively!” But the fact is (1) I’m not very good at scum-hunting, especially Day 1. (2) I like to read others’ accusations and think about them. (3) I’m spending more than 2+ hours per calendar day just skimming the thread to follow what’s going on … and another 1 hour per day responding to accusations against me. (4) Even if I did identify likely Scum, nobody would agree with my argument. (And I can’t really blame them – I’m a poor scum-hunter.) As I do peruse the thread, I do form certain reactions, and I’ve already named Players I find (slightly) suspicious. Which is why Town wasting its efforts on long responses like the following is frustrating for me: > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > The “other top suspect”? By whose reckoning is **Johnny Bravo** the “other top suspect”? the vote count as of **septimus** ’ post: > > Colby - 9 > septimus - 6 > ToeJam - 3 > Lakai 3 > Normal - 2 > Angel - 2 > 7 people - 1 > > If there’s an “other top suspect” it would be septimus himself (though I suppose that asking for a self-vote is a bit much…). If not him, then \*maybe \*\*\*ToeJam \*\*or **Lakai** …but I fail to see how Johnny Bravo, tied for 7th place with 1 vote, qualifies here as a “top suspect”. > > I have no particular problem with the fact that septimus voted for a ‘non-contender’ here, but his reasoning stinks. He’s (one of) _ **My** _ top suspect for Heaven’s sake! _Make up your minds!_ 🆒 Should I vote for whom I suspect? … Or for someone just because they’re a Lynch leader? Now: _ **Why** _ do I suspect him? _ **What difference does it make?!** _ Nobody’s going to follow my lead. (And I don’t blame them; my sniffs are very vague and flimsy.) Nearer to EOD, if Johnny gets votes from other Players I will review the cases against Johnny and others (ToeJam?) and make a final decision. It’s unlikely, but I might even have an intelligent comment on the case I select. Which explains the post by me to which the following is in response: [QUOTE=Chronos] Both, of course. Are you really trying to pretend you’re that ignorant of how the game works? Since when has it ever been acceptable to vote without giving reasons? [/QUOTE] I wish I had the will-power to ignore this thread completely for 35 hours or so. Let you guys make up your minds whether I’m Towny (or “acceptable”) before I continue posting in frustration. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/579 "2017-01-11T21:00:31Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I still don’t see what part of my issues with your take on this game are problematic, so you’ll have to forgive me when I come across a bit confused on what I need to be showing you from your own statements are the problem. > > Actually, I don’t really care. I’m done with playing to your smokescreen. I’m content with voting for you, and I think you’re now just trying to raise a ruckus in order to distract from more meaningful conversation today. Mm hmm. I look forward to your meaningful conversation. I saw your take on Colby. What’s your opinion on Septimus, and Meeko? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/580 "2017-01-11T21:15:32Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I’m ignoring the irrelevant things you say. I’m focusing on the problematic things. > > Let me put it like this: > > Welcome to Mafia. It’s a game about information. One side has information, and they’re the bad guys. The other side is seeking information, and they’re the good guys. Some information is given out at the start in terms of context. The good guys should try to make their decisions using as much of that context as possible. The bad guys can ignore the context and just play however they’d like because they’re not seeking information. > > I don’t know what it means that you’ve decided to use your magic faerie wand to say that Ulla’s not scum. Maybe you’re snuggling her because you know she’s a townie. Maybe she’s your scum buddy and you’re not picking up on her attempt to orchestrate a cat fight as a demonstration to the rest of us. Or maybe you’re both townies, and you just have a great nose for truth. I can’t figure it out with the information at hand, so it’s irrelevant to me. > > –Snip– > > And I’ve played both scum and Town in this game before, and having votes being placed on me as scum is a lot more concerning. It’s the sort of thing that leads one to lash out, just like you’re doing. Why me instead of whomever else? Perhaps because you’re starting to see that the old “Obvious scum move is a great disguise for being scum” isn’t working out for you this time? I find that problematic. A few odds and ends here. Filtered through my IRL feelings. ((I’m moving back in with my parents. I had, and lost three jobs in 2016. I lost a job of 4.5 years at the end of 2015.)) **I’m a bit introspective at the moment. This will probably be tertiary to the game at best, fluff and outright OOG at best.** That said, and to further my response to **Drain Bead** I’m going to “go there”. I firmly believe that I can dissect **Alcohol Squid** here and make a few general Mafia points. **I won’t get there on my own. I’m asking for opinion.** “”… The bad guys can ignore the context and just play however they’d like because they’re not seeking information.“” I get the theory here. I differ at what Scum can and do with the context. **After all, isn’t ignoring context the same as Skimming? Isn’t Skimming A top five scum tell?** I think it’s more a Bruce Lee thing, paraphrased:: ““respect the rules, while not being bound to them””. I’d wager power role town could seek similar benefit, subscribing to this belief. I don’t think scum ignore context as much as you are making it out to be here. – “”… I don’t know what it means that you’ve decided to use your magic faerie wand to say that Ulla’s not scum.“” The full meaning of Magic Bag escapes me at the moment, suffice that it was more personal, to the self, claiming in a vauge sense. I want to associate your faerie wand with a magic bag claim. … Is there a connection here? – “…I can’t figure it out with the information at hand, so it’s irrelevant to me.” Wow. At once, I feel the “Old” Meeko wanting to attack you here. … More reserved, I look inward. [[When we see a man of contrary character, we should look inward, and examine ourself. -Confuscious (Yeah, philosophy and spirituality searching is real deep shit.)]] I can’t go here with you. My key issue is with “irrelevance”". A Discarded, disposed irrelevance? Or, a “please sir, let me check your coat for you” irrelevance? At what point in time do you come back to this, and is it an absolute that additional information becomes present before doing so? … If my thoughts were real, and our games were also,real… I would own a circut track of floor space, from my mental pacing. ((Rumination, if I am brutally honest here. :(😃 )) The old me … And perhaps still me at present, would work on a point long after others and common sense have stopped. There is obviously a line of thought here, that would benefit me. I could fill my tank with it… But as for most things in then space, for me on a personal level, it’s not a matter of tank capacity … I flat out do not have the tank at all to begin with. I see the treasure, I don’t have the hands to grasp it. * * * The second part, is more what I intended to get to, before I opened up, frankly. … And admittedly it’s meta. I’ve lost most of my train of thought on this one… Except the overarching question. Does “birth order” and or being an only child affect Mafia play? “”…and having votes being placed on me as scum is a lot more concerning.“” I feel, perhaps the same level of concern if votes are placed on me as town. As **Chronos** pointed out, I have in the past done everything I could to confirm my town status. … And if you spare me the rationale… I wonder if birth order ((Or indeed, being an only child)) plays in here, to color my perspective. … It all falls on me to get what I want done… There is no other … Group of authority (By consensus, “mob” or otherwise) to achieve my agenda, if I go under… I can’t count on siblings to forward my goals. Perhaps I equate the lynch as parental control… I don’t know. This is fast transitioning to from a ““move”” in Mafia into a session where my time is up for the day… And as I said, I’ve lost where I was going on this particular point, as I started… -Meeko, who is debating if this fulfills his group therapy obligations… [[Not that he actually has any, at present.]] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=30)