# Mafia Reunion - Day One **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 7, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577 "2017-01-07T22:01:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/661 "2017-01-12T15:54:44Z")
Bah, I misremembered the snow white thing, please disregard. It was gnarly, not colby. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/662 "2017-01-12T16:09:01Z")
Lords and ladies and HoH3 (Naruto-sock) over at giraffe kinda illustrates my point re Colby, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/663 "2017-01-12T16:15:42Z")
**AngeloftheNorth** : I’m not liking the cases here. I’ll have to review more carefully, but it seems like they’re based on accusations of skimming. Skimming is anti-Town, but doesn’t show Scum motivation. And in a game this big, with so much to read, I can’t see cases based on skimming as being reasonable. I’m almost willing to say that a case based on skimming is pro-Scum right now, but I also think we need to maintain pressure on players to be more involved and not skim. > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I’m ignoring the irrelevant things you say. I’m focusing on the problematic things. Amen! > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Wish we kept embedded quotes here. Anyway, I guess that addresses your surface-level idea, but I still think there’s a deeper concern, in that the quote you included still talks about town roles. There’s just as much of a risk of outing town roles when the only way you can talk about the scum ones is to talk about how they impact town. I didn’t mean to imply that the only way. But I liked **Thing Fish** ’s post and wanted to bring attention to it. I want to get around to doing some better analysis of the scum roles, but haven’t yet. I bumped the role doc so it’s easier to find and read. > [@Meeko](#): > > I’m a bit introspective at the moment. This will probably be tertiary to the game at best, fluff and outright OOG at best. **Meeko** , with love and respect, please focus on this game. There’s already so many posts in the game it’s difficult to keep up. Also, this post > [@Meeko](#): > > Take this how you want, but I feel you vote Republican. is so far out of bounds I don’t know what to say. > [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Because if I saw something that looked like a soft-claim. And if I saw it, others did as well. > I really don’t care if scum saw it or not - but in this particularly set-up I mind it very much if a Town power saw it and decide to use their powers on what might be a vanilla or a non-Townie. > > Since he already had made sure to try and tell us, that he was Town - there really IMO didn’t seem to be much else he could claim - than having a power. So I asked. > > As a little bonus-info I would like to point out that I really dislike soft claims. Either you claim or you don’t in my book. > > He even added a nice little story about being mislynched just to make sure, that we all began to wonder if he indeen in this game too would be not just a mislynch but a power mislynch early in the game. > > So yes - I did ask about it - because I really think that it’s weird to ignore a post like that and go “oh, no - guess nobody will notice if we keep quiet about it”. > > I would so much call it “pushing for a claim” but rather asking about what to me already looked like a claim. I do think there is a difference there. > > It’s one thing to ask a lunch-candidat: Do you want to claim? > And anohter to ask a player with a couple of votes about a soft claim - and it might not even be a soft claim. He might come back and say “no. you mis-read me completely”. There’s nothing wrong with soft claims. Partial information is better than no information. And players should be sophisticated enough to account for the reliability of a claim. It’s up to the protector to decide if a claimer is towny enough to deserve their protection. It’s actually better for us if Scum are uncertain about who will be protected. And note that I’m currently voting **septimus** , so you know where I stand in this particular case. On a vaguely related note, I won’t be around much on weekends, so don’t expect me to take actions based on late-Day conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/664 "2017-01-12T16:25:26Z")
\*\*I have corrected a small error in the rules in the Night Zero thread. \*\* \*\*Switches may be flipped at Night only, flipping back to “on” every Night. If they affect a Day Power, the next Day will be the power affected. If they affect a Night Power, the current Night will be affected. \*\* **Apologies for the error.** ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/665 "2017-01-12T16:25:34Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply that the only way. But I liked **Thing Fish** ’s post and wanted to bring attention to it. This post: > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Yes, absolutely this. Nobody has really been talking about the impact of the Hitman/Outrider roles, which will force protective roles to consider their own safety when deciding how to use their power. If there is only one claimed power role going into a Night or Day phase, it would be very risky for a doc to protect that player. > > Obligatory disclaimer that all Town power roles should play their roles as they see fit, BUT… since Town has both Day and Night docs, seems like it would be wisest for the 7-shot protector Wizard to hold off until one of the other docs die, so that the Wizard can cover the phase that the late Doc worked in. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/666 "2017-01-12T16:27:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So you asked and then re-asked for me to make a “soft claim” even though you find them bad. You wanted more ammunition for your case against me? Or, if I were a Town Power, you wanted to out me? FTR, since I know I’m the Townie Septimus, FOS on you and all the other Septimus voters! 😛 No. I asked you whether or not that comment was a soft claim. Big difference. I don’t want you to claim or not. I want you to tell me if you in fact meant to soft claim or not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/667 "2017-01-12T16:30:34Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Bah, I misremembered the snow white thing, please disregard. It was gnarly, not colby. And this is one of my many reasons for disliking the “he once did that” or “he never did that before”. Because memory can be - intentionally or not - colored by circumstance and we sometimes do mess it up by simply being humans. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/668 "2017-01-12T16:33:18Z")
I’m sorry that I haven’t been participating much. I’ve been reading what I can, but work inopportunely pulled me away from the game for a bit. I don’t mind the train on **Colby**. Is it a scum slip? If I have to lean one way, it very well might be. But even if not, we’re all pretty much in the dark here on Day 1. So you work with what little information you have. The most important thing isn’t who, specifically, you lynch on Day 1. It’s whether you can learn from that result to better guide your decisions in Day 2 and beyond. I think a lynch there would provide that. Nevertheless, I’m keeping my vote on **Septimus**. Originally it was just for a post or two he made at the start. But further responses from him haven’t served him well at all. He’s waffled back and forth on Colby, coming late to the lynch line then backing off. He then listed several people he was going to analyse later, Colby included, but not committing to a vote there. Then he decides on **Johnny Bravo** with absolutely no justification behind the vote. On Day 1, this might be expected. But Septimus specifically said he was going to review what he knew of four people and then pops in with a vote, providing zero analysis…even when asked by another. Then he changes his vote again to someone not on his list of 4, again for no reason. This vote changing reminds me of something. It’s very helpful that the mods are providing a running list of current vote totals. But even more helpful for the purposes of analysis is a FULL list of votes and that includes original votes and retractions. Someone started it on Page 1 of this thread but it dropped off pretty quickly and I’d suggest we keep it going. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/669 "2017-01-12T16:46:49Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > No. I asked you whether or not that comment was a soft claim. Big difference. > > I don’t want you to claim or not. I want you to tell me if you in fact meant to soft claim or not. I’ll admit I can’t see a difference. Isn’t the point of a soft claim that it’s all squishy in the middle like a Twinkie? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/670 "2017-01-12T16:50:49Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > And this is one of my many reasons for disliking the “he once did that” or “he never did that before”. Because memory can be - intentionally or not - colored by circumstance and we sometimes do mess it up by simply being humans. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I’m not usually one to focus entirely on meta-knowledge of other players, more often than not I’m partially against it (sock games are great!). But in a game of this scope, at this early stage, I feel I have to to a certain extent. Most players are unknown to me, so what little I know of the few I’m more familiar with helps me get some semblance of a grasp on this game. And I can see both top contenders for lynch being town based on how they’ve posted so far. It doesn’t mean they _are_ town, or that I’m _convinced_ they are town, but it wouldn’t _surprise_ me. It’s something to consider, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/671 "2017-01-12T17:01:49Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’ll admit I can’t see a difference. > > Isn’t the point of a soft claim that it’s all squishy in the middle like a Twinkie? Really? I asked if the comment made was a soft claim. It’s a simple question - yes/no. I would never - and have not at all - asked for a claim in any way. All I want to know is, if it was in fact intended to be a _ **soft** _ claim. Is this confusion because not all are familiar with the difference between a claim and a soft claim? ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/672 "2017-01-12T17:16:06Z")
Do any of you also tend to read certain players post with a certain voice? I do - and sometimes it does mess a bit with me. NAF: Is similar to Morgan Freeman in my head. Very calm and very intense with a bit of humor as well Sinjin: is the voice of my favorite aunt Story: is the voice of God in Monty Python and The Holy Grail (he has had that voice from the very first game I played with him - and it did frighten me a bit, when he entered the game and scolded me for playing anti-town) Bufftabby: has her own voice from the radio. Makes it even more enjoyable to play with her Meeko: I try so hard not to hear a cartoon-racoon reading post from Meeko. But I admit… it has happened and it’s soooo funny 😃 Squid: is this husky voice with the sound of whiskey and great sex in dark allies NormalPhrase: :o I mistook NP for a woman in our first game and so… is the voice of my mother. Lecturing me on how I ought to behave So now I’ll leave you all to wonder, which one I hear as Terry Jones in the “Spam”-sketch and which is Tom Jones 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/673 "2017-01-12T17:17:13Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Really? > > I asked if the comment made was a soft claim. It’s a simple question - yes/no. > > I would never - and have not at all - asked for a claim in any way. > > All I want to know is, if it was in fact intended to be a _ **soft** _ claim. > > Is this confusion because not all are familiar with the difference between a claim and a soft claim? I think perhaps I don’t. I thought a soft claim was a hint, not a declaration. Once it’s a declaration, isn’t it a claim (though of an unspecified role)? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/674 "2017-01-12T17:34:00Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Really? > > I asked if the comment made was a soft claim. It’s a simple question - yes/no. > > I would never - and have not at all - asked for a claim in any way. > > All I want to know is, if it was in fact intended to be a _ **soft** _ claim. > > Is this confusion because not all are familiar with the difference between a claim and a soft claim? Well, I think some would consider a soft claim to be ‘squishy’ in the sense that it isn’t explicitly addressed. By outright asking if it was a soft claim you are forcing a hard claim, in the sense that if septimus says, ‘yes it was a soft claim,’ then that in and of itself is a hard claim. If septimus says, ‘no it wasn’t a soft claim’ and then later claims a Town Power, will that color your perception? If not, then I suggest you assume as such and move on. If so, well, then, you are absolutely forcing a claim here. I’m left wondering, why do you _care_? Yes, I saw your earlier post and I’m not convinced. Why are you concerned that Town Powers might target septimus? It doesn’t make any sense. There are so many factors that may or may not influence Town Powers decisions that you actually think Town Powers would waste a resource on Septimus who, if he doesn’t get lynched today, might very well get lynched tomorrow or killed at Night? Because of something that might be a soft claim? Really? It’s all nonsense and… what’s the old lingo?.. _fishing_. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/675 "2017-01-12T17:34:36Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Do any of you also tend to read certain players post with a certain voice? > > NAF: Is similar to Morgan Freeman in my head. Very calm and very intense with a bit of humor as well This right here, may be the coolest thing anyone has ever said about me. Love ya Ullz. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/676 "2017-01-12T17:41:20Z")
Stuff I think (Nod to \*\*Thing Fish \*\*for the format): - With 53 other players, it is impossible to keep up on everyone and every post. I have never played with over ½ the players in the game. If our guess of 37 original Town is correct, a full third of the players are not-town (“the other team?”). I have never played with such a high percentage of non-Town to start a game, I don’t think. As the game progresses and more information is released then the full game should become manageable. If I am lucky enough to be alive then, I will try and manage it. Right now the best strategy for me is to hone in on certain parts of the game, and just try and get a handle on those parts. - This brings up a problem with Lynch-the-Loud vs Lynch-the-Lurker. Scum can hide and not get lynched on Day 1 by just not participating much. They won’t be getting dirty mixing it up in the mud pit. There are plenty of reasons to post cautiously and/or sparsely, and not all of them are Scum reasons. I don’t know what the solution is. But I do know, as the game progresses, we are going to have to start holding players accountable for lurking. - I have yet to get an accurate understanding of **Colby** ’s initial post that started all the trouble for him. The speculation that the source of the fire in the color is “…probably from the other team or an Arsonist…” makes little sense as a helpful speculation. But it makes almost as little sense as a Scum slip. The fire is obviously not coming from Town. Is the “probably” referring to the chance that the fire is just meaningless color/trickery? The Scum and Town roles were out, and there was nothing about fire in them. Ultimately the statement rates most charitably as early day meaningless filler. I am OK with a **Colby11** lynch because it will answer the question and give us some direction on dealing with the early **Colby** voters and defenders. - **Angel** thinks the **Colby** case is “BS.” **Sinjin** said he(she?) thought \*\*Colby \*\*was referring to “third parties.” **Lakai** wanted pitchforks. **Professor P.** brought up “hammer.” The response to **Colby11** is more interesting than the supposed slip. - To those voting for, or issuing a FOS to, **Professor Pepperwinkle** , I want to argue that while Scum may do anything, **Professor Pepperwinkle** is the most conservative, non-confrontational player I know. He even gets more conservative when he is Scum. While much of his posting has been fluff, he did first bring up the hammer when talking about **Colby**. I cannot see a Scum **Professor Pepperwinkle** doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/677 "2017-01-12T18:23:14Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > [snip] > > - I have yet to get an accurate understanding of **Colby** ’s initial post that started all the trouble for him. The speculation that the source of the fire in the color is “…probably from the other team or an Arsonist…” makes little sense as a helpful speculation. But it makes almost as little sense as a Scum slip. The fire is obviously not coming from Town. Is the “probably” referring to the chance that the fire is just meaningless color/trickery? The Scum and Town roles were out, and there was nothing about fire in them. Ultimately the statement rates most charitably as early day meaningless filler. I am OK with a **Colby11** lynch \*because it will answer the question and give us some direction on dealing with the early **Colby** voters and defenders. \* > > - **Angel** thinks the **Colby** case is “BS.” **Sinjin** said he(she?) thought \*\*Colby \*\*was referring to “third parties.” **Lakai** wanted pitchforks. **Professor P.** brought up “hammer.” \*The response to **Colby11** is more interesting than the supposed slip. \* > [snip] My emphasises. If Colby goes down, we’ll definitely have a lot to look at and ponder on. I’m not gonna vote Colby for that though… Here we kinda get to the join-a-wagon-be-a-patriot/vote-your-conscience (some say waste-your-vote) debate, and I’m in the latter group. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/678 "2017-01-12T18:23:16Z")
More stuff I think: - **septimus** is struggling this game, and maybe it is because he is Scum and is frustrated by having to defend himself in a game that takes up way too much personal time. Or he could be Town who is frustrated by having to defend himself in a game that takes up way too much personal time. When he jumps off **Colby11** , he actually says he is doing so in part to “except” himself from those suspicious of those players on the **Colby11** wagon. That’s a lousy reason to jump off your “biggest ping.” - I don’t get the combative tone later either. It doesn’t help to vote for **Johnny Bravo** and withhold the reason. I have played with scum **septimus** before, and **Angel** is right about one thing. He does like to make posts on the Scum thread first and then have fellow players critique them before dropping these posts into the main game. So his rashness in posting this game does not seem consistent with past Scum play, and his posts do not seem like posts that have been vetted by fellow Scum. - So my best guess is frustrated Townie or 3rd party. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/679 "2017-01-12T18:27:43Z")
I really don’t like Total Lost trying to force a claim from septimus. And the way I see is - someone being forced to confirm if something is a soft claim makes the result a hard claim. I’m ok with soft claims, myself. I don’t think that was one, but I have been wrong lots more than I am right in this game. But if you don’t want to possibly distract Town protecters with a soft claim, how does forcing a harder claim not just paint a target? It’s weird to me, this “turn your possible soft claim into something more concrete.” \*\*Vote Total Lost. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/680 "2017-01-12T18:31:24Z")
It confirms it as _a_ claim (in this situation I think that would be bad, btw). IMO a hard-claim would have to provide role. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577.md?page=35)