# Mafia Reunion - Day Three **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068 "2017-01-24T20:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/21 "2017-01-24T23:40:41Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > **Drain Bead** seems like a good target as one of the top posters for Day 2. Pick off active Townies and the rest will sort itself out in time. > Sorry, Drain. As I said at Night, I’ll be stepping up and posting more. > > I’m going to take some time and look through Day 2. > > What’s been interesting thus far is that no wolves or mafia have gotten caught in each other’s crosshairs. I’m sure it’s helpful to be able to discuss it amongst yourselves but still, you’re playing with imperfect information. Killing the other faction is good, but not your number one priority. \*\*For either scum side to win, they just need to get down to 15 players and then pick off a single opposing faction. \*\*Unlikely? Sure. But the math says that going after Townies is the best course of action. I don’t believe the bolded part above is correct. The roles doc shows on the scum PMs that they win when the number of scum is greater than 50% of the population and they outnumber the opposing scum faction. Which means they could win at at as few as 26 players remain if one of the factions loses no members and the other only loses 1. Example: Mafia have 7, wolves have 6, combined they number 13… meaning total population would be 26 to meet the wincon. Throw in at least 5 of the remaining population being 3P and it would be 8 town remaining. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/22 "2017-01-24T23:43:22Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I want to look up Sach’s history a bit more. The 3rd party play would be a very ballsy gambit, I agree. But what purpose did it serve at the time of claiming? Were they both under that much pressure to break down like that on Day 2? That seems very hasty for something that could massively backfire. > > Currently, I’m opposed to wasting a lynch on known or suspected 3rd party. That may change. > At the same time, I’m almost certain Crys is lying. > > First of all, even in a game this size, having Town, Wolves, Mafia, AND a FIVE person 3rd party? That’s almost as large as each scum team. That’s not a 3rd party, that’s a fourth faction! And a 3rd party with (multiple?) power roles that’s completely off the radar in regards to Role PMs? > > And why does 3rd party need power roles anyway? If the win condition is just to survive, why the hell would they need to investigate anyone? Lynch them all! Who cares as long as they stick around. > > And why would their win condition be to just survive to the end? Why would the mods have so much explanation in the rules about potential exclusive win conditions for 3rd party if there wasn’t one in the game? > > No. Nothing about Crys’s claim makes a lick of sense. > It’s all a lie. > > But I just don’t know what to do about it. OK. So you want to look up sachertorte, but your positive I’m lying…Well wouldn’t that mean sachertorte is lying also. Talk about not making any sense. I have to look more into your posts and participation. If my memory serves you have been rather lurky until you started coming down on me. If I wasn’t on my phone I would vote for you right now. Perhaps after dinner when I can return to my PC. Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/23 "2017-01-24T23:43:46Z")
On the bright side, it was just one town death - on the downside, it’s going to be a very long game if we only have one death a night. And thankfully no modkills. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Okay, now that the night is over: > > I still very much want to lynch Sachertorte per my plan This quite frankly, is a terrible plan. We need to find scum, not 3rd parties. At this point in time it makes no difference whether the cult is win stealing or not, there is no way they can win with 40+ folk still alive. Yes we need to eventually determine whether they are truthful but it is not a priority. I do think we need to resolve the toejam issue. I would have thought he would have been an obvious pro-town choice for batman - possibly batman was turned off, or toejam was protected? **vote: toejam** ---
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/24 "2017-01-24T23:49:03Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I don’t believe the bolded part above is correct. The roles doc shows on the scum PMs that they win when the number of scum is greater than 50% of the population and they outnumber the opposing scum faction. Which means they could win at at as few as 26 players remain if one of the factions loses no members and the other only loses 1. Example: Mafia have 7, wolves have 6, combined they number 13… meaning total population would be 26 to meet the wincon. Throw in at least 5 of the remaining population being 3P and it would be 8 town remaining. How could 7 mafia win with a total of 26 still alive? Look at the wincon: _“YOU WIN if the total number of living Mafia is greater than or equal to 50% of the total population[/u[ AND greater than the number of living Wolves.”_ If 7 mafia were alive - for the 50% to be true, the total population could only be 14, and no more than 6 wolves alive. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/25 "2017-01-24T23:52:29Z")
Oh yeah and I [random.Org](http://random.Org) picked mhaye for investigation and mhaye isn’t lutha Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/26 "2017-01-24T23:53:31Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I want to look up Sach’s history a bit more. The 3rd party play would be a very ballsy gambit, I agree. But what purpose did it serve at the time of claiming? Were they both under that much pressure to break down like that on Day 2? That seems very hasty for something that could massively backfire. > > Currently, I’m opposed to wasting a lynch on known or suspected 3rd party. That may change. > At the same time, I’m almost certain Crys is lying. > > First of all, even in a game this size, having Town, Wolves, Mafia, AND a FIVE person 3rd party? That’s almost as large as each scum team. That’s not a 3rd party, that’s a fourth faction! And a 3rd party with (multiple?) power roles that’s completely off the radar in regards to Role PMs? > > And why does 3rd party need power roles anyway? If the win condition is just to survive, why the hell would they need to investigate anyone? Lynch them all! Who cares as long as they stick around. > > And why would their win condition be to just survive to the end? Why would the mods have so much explanation in the rules about potential exclusive win conditions for 3rd party if there wasn’t one in the game? > > No. Nothing about Crys’s claim makes a lick of sense. > It’s all a lie. > > But I just don’t know what to do about it. I find this post insincere. It feels like you’re trying to manufacture outrage. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/27 "2017-01-24T23:57:03Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I agree with the case on ToeJam, and I think snfaulkners additional point sounds probable, but I’d like to hold off for now. I think ToeJam needs to go to the gallows sooner, rather than later, if just to clear things up. But I also feel we lost some scum-huntin’ yesterDay, and it’s still early toDay, so still time to make up for it. One of the reasons I brought up looking over the actual case-making of voters on the three largest wagons yesterDay after the brewha switch-claim. Anyway, I predict lots of people to jump on ToeJam toDay, so unless I’m needed I’ll snoop around elsewhere. > > So, SNF, any other leans, FOS’s etc? > > I’m gonna look over TexCat Day 2, to see if I might revive my vote or not. Other than that, I’m feeling iffy on Pleo, on the Prof. (I hope you start contributing a bit more soon), a bit on paulwhoisaghost (strangely aggressive, as if he has to make up for something) and Sunny Daze (OMGUS, weak case on me), and the bottom of the barrel lurkers. > > On Crys and sachertorte: I can understand some arguments for how certain behaviors of theirs could be scummy, but for it all to add up together… I just don’t see the point, from their point of view as scum. Why not just stay silent? None of them were considered prime lynch-beef before all of this. The contortions to make all of this add up as scum motivation makes it improbable, IMO. > > But, any serious binocular effort will have to wait until tomorrow, as it’s late where I am and I’m tired. I agree with you about Crys and Sachertorte. Paul is wildly aggressive both as town and scum. I’m suspicious of Prof. P. Namely because I went completely AWOL for several days and he tried to make a thing of it. He knows I don’t play scum by hiding. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/28 "2017-01-25T00:07:16Z")
I agree with Angel. That post and it’s reasoning is awful. If you’re so convinced it’s all a lie, the answer of what to do about it is fairly academic. If they aren’t neutral 3rd parties, which is part of the claim, they need to die, period, full stop. As it seems likely that Batman is turned off for at least the time being, and scum are unlikely to do it for us, that leaves lynching them. Of course, if you yourself are some flavor of scum, then you have an additional data point that they aren’t a member of your faction. That means it’s more likely they are telling the truth. And if they are telling the truth, then lynching them is good for your team since it’s effectively a mislynch for town. However, you probably don’t want to just come out and SAY “we should totally lynch them!” since if they do flip non-hostile or something it makes you look bad. So what is an enterprising scum to do? Oh yeah, try and sucker someone else into making the big push for you! Especially if you start mentioning lying, which has already lead to one town’s death this game, that should grab someone’s attention! Overall, pretty scummy and a good place for at least an initial vote. **Vote enderw24** ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/29 "2017-01-25T00:07:21Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > So, SNF, any other leans, FOS’s etc? Well, real quick off-the-top-o’-me-gulliver: \*\*Prof \*\*is and has been making me feel uneasy ever since his I’m-not-gonna-fluff-it-up stance on D1. \*\*PaulwisaG \*\*kinda pinged me last Night when he put words in my mouth, plus his theories seem overly paranoid to the point of being purposefully confusing. **Crys** , I believe is 3rd party, but i do still think she needs to die. Or **Sachers**. one of the two. And I think it needs to be sooner than later, but only if there isn’t scum in our sites. A good use for a 2nd/3rd lynch, should we get the opportunity again. \*\*Hooker \*\*seems a bit on the towny side with his usual analysis, but he’s fooled me before. \*\*Biotop \*\*is towny enough for now that I’m not worried about him yet. But he has certainly fooled me before. **Plum** , you yourself seem towny enough for now. \*\*Meeko \*\*I’m really hoping is town and I’m dreading the time when I have to decode his posts…which I’m sure will require drinking a lot of ovaltine to get the decoder. \*\*Angel \*\*I would like to hear from more, but is, again for now, seeming towny. \*\*Raven \*\*townenough4now **Sunny D** townenough4now \*\*BillMC \*\*townenough4now I am concered about, and will look further into, the bottom posters. I’m sure there is scum lurking in that cesspool. It’s now D3, I think we have given people enough time to get a handle on the game and start participating. I don’t care if they skim most of D1, get on and playing. If you need a refresher on something from earlier in the game, ask someone to point you to the relevant info. I’ll add more later after burritotime. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/30 "2017-01-25T00:47:41Z")
Questions from the Night: > [@Mafia Reunion - Day Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1276): > > @ToeJam, #1123, why exactly do you think scum want you dead? #1132, the convoluted plan to have people target him was not brewha’s, but Chronos’ - mason, is that really part of why you voted brewha? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/31 "2017-01-25T01:06:43Z")
Dammit. Cross Posted in Day 2: > [@Mafia Reunion - Day Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1370): > > Questions from the Night: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by GuiriEnEspaña View Post > > @ToeJam, #1123, why exactly do you think scum want you dead? #1132, the convoluted plan to have people target him was not brewha’s, but Chronos’ - mason, is that really part of why you voted brewha? > > – Sadly, yes. I attributed Brewha’s encouragement of having multiple power roles targeting him as a prime reason for my suspicion on him, primarily as I had at that point in my catch up forgotten about the fact that Scum had watcher roles. If you asked me at this time if Town has watcher roles… i’d probably have to go back and read the roles thread as that’s slipped by me too, and I’m being lazy currently. But yeah… I had forgotten about watchers, and then when I read that plan I was seeing **Brewha** ’s enthusiasm for it, and got really suspicious of it. > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by GuiriEnEspaña View Post > > Bolding added. Each Night? Or did you mean starting just toNight, since you said you were not around last Night. And you’re claiming VT, or a role without a power? Or trying to cover up a power in case you’re watched? And given your experience in Mafia, why the hell do you think inventing an imaginary role would somehow be accepted by the moderators and included in the game? Can I vote you now? > > Quote: > > Originally Posted by Hockey Monkey View Post > > ToeJam. How, um…what? Vanilla townies should be targeting themselves every night? Vanilla…um, how’s that work now? Why would you think…how do players with no action to play…? I can’t even. > > I came up with the idea Last Night (N2). And I do feel like \*\*Meeko \*\*actually in that I’m suprised so many people got confused by this idea. Maybe I’m just the one missing it? > –I made that suggestion for 2 reasons (maybe 3): > 1. I think every lil thing that doesn’t HURT Town but can confuse Scum as being a good thing. I think if there are Watchers in a game. Then EVERY GAME VT SHOULD target themselves. Because it adds no clutter to the Day threads, it has no harmful effects to the Town, and it’s a nice way to confuse Scum Watchers. > –The exception would be if there are Town Watchers who can confirm Town roles that need to target themselves, then yeah, every VT might come up as a Town PR. That’s not a great idea. But I don’t think that’s the case. > – It’s also something that doesn’t interfere in the day threads. So again- doesn’t hurt the Town (as I don’t think there’s a Townie Watcher that needs to watch people targeting themselves to confirm Power Roles (PRs). > 2. I LOVE to annoy the Mods [I AM the original GastardMod for a reason]. And the idea of the Mods getting 20-30 PMs at night. Well that amused me and was the primary reason for posting the idea. > 3. I didn’t think of it as having much strategic/tactical value, but it amused me (And the idea of annoying the Mods = bonus), so I suggested it. I didn’t think people would get that confused/flustered by it. I enjoy making the game fun for me, and the Mods, and yeah- the suggestion of “Oh, well it makes more work for the Mods, and doesn’t accomplish anything” —\> I’m okay with it. Because I’m not the Mod. So let them deal with it. 🆒 > > But yeah, if you’re going to say what’s the strategic value and all… Not so much. It was more reasoning #2 than 1. Minimal negatives, and Maximum amusement to annoy \*\*NAF \*\*and \*\*Story \*\*:p( **Mahaloth** , you’re cool). > > ```auto > > Originally Posted by MHaye View Post > > [quote] > You chose not to respond, therefore I voted you because at that point your flip would maximise the information yield. > > Yes that's cold-hearted. Sorry, but that's early game Mafia for you. -snip- > [/quote] > > Fair Enough. Acknowledged. > > ``` > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Crys75 View Post > > Oh yeah and I [random.Org](http://random.Org) picked mhaye for investigation and mhaye isn’t lutha > > You realize this means nothing for the Town? > -You could be telling the truth. You could be lying to save a fellow Survivor. You could be lying who you investigated. At this point it’s just WIFOM. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/32 "2017-01-25T01:09:45Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I don’t believe the bolded part above is correct. The roles doc shows on the scum PMs that they win when the number of scum is greater than 50% of the population and they outnumber the opposing scum faction. Which means they could win at at as few as 26 players remain if one of the factions loses no members and the other only loses 1. Example: Mafia have 7, wolves have 6, combined they number 13… meaning total population would be 26 to meet the wincon. Throw in at least 5 of the remaining population being 3P and it would be 8 town remaining. > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Bill already mentioned this, but paul’s assessment is incorrect and it needs to be reiterated. An intact scum team of seven would only win when there are 14 or fewer players and at least of the other scum team had died. > [@Enderw24](#): > > I want to look up Sach’s history a bit more. The 3rd party play would be a very ballsy gambit, I agree. But what purpose did it serve at the time of claiming? Were they both under that much pressure to break down like that on Day 2? That seems very hasty for something that could massively backfire. > > Currently, I’m opposed to wasting a lynch on known or suspected 3rd party. That may change. > At the same time, I’m almost certain Crys is lying. > > First of all, even in a game this size, having Town, Wolves, Mafia, AND a FIVE person 3rd party? That’s almost as large as each scum team. That’s not a 3rd party, that’s a fourth faction! And a 3rd party with (multiple?) power roles that’s completely off the radar in regards to Role PMs? > > And why does 3rd party need power roles anyway? If the win condition is just to survive, why the hell would they need to investigate anyone? Lynch them all! Who cares as long as they stick around. > > And why would their win condition be to just survive to the end? Why would the mods have so much explanation in the rules about potential exclusive win conditions for 3rd party if there wasn’t one in the game? > > No. Nothing about Crys’s claim makes a lick of sense. > It’s all a lie. > > But I just don’t know what to do about it. Allow me to add my voice to those saying this assessment makes no sense. [ol] [li]The purpose of sachertorte’s claim seems pretty clear to me. Crys was under severe pressure for claiming a very unusual role and being third party. Sachertorte’s claim could at least corroborate the existence of the cult.[/li][li]How would Crys be lying if sachertorte can corroborate her role PM? The only way that works is if scum have the third party PMs and Crys fake claims third party with real third party sachertorte coming to corroborate her. I suppose that’s technically a possability, but it seems so improbable that I don’t think it’s worth considering. I suppose they could both be scum in an elaborate plan to fake claims of a switch and two third party players but that seems like a very high risk/low reward play, and I’m not considering it at this point.[/li][li]Finding your teammates isn’t much as power roles go. At best, it gives them a slightly better chance of not shooting each other.[/li][li]Survival is a fairly well established win condition for third parties. It’s not unreasonable to change it from an individual goal in a smallish game to a team goal in a game of this size.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/33 "2017-01-25T01:10:54Z")
Let’s settle this nonsense. **Mods, can a vanilla player target themselves to produce an observable effect?** ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/34 "2017-01-25T01:17:28Z")
So I started digging around in the world of Ender. I started in the day/night 1 thread and I will do the rest tomorrow, but I’m not liking what I see so far. #243 is his first post where he comes in and votes for septimus Then he doesn’t return until post #668in which he comments on the colby train but leaves his vote on septimus. Keep in mind these both are no longer here and have come up town. Then in post #1086 he talks about how a mass claim is bad. He keeps his vote on septimus cause even though he claimed he thinks he’s still scummy. Returns #1195 and swaps his vote to Toe Jam, who is still alive mind you, and has had vote trains on him each day (maybe hes doin some bussing, or going for cred on his scummate) EOD happens and we are in the night thread, by this time septimus has already flipped town, and starts trying to break down mechanics on how that may have happened. The next 2 poss after that are about the death mechanics and how the EMT roll should have worked…just feels forced like he’s trying to appear townie and helpful those other 2 posts are #1419 and 1427 his final post of #1427 talks about scum lurking in lakai votes which…duh yeah we will most likely find some scum/wolves there. Now one other thing that sticks out to me is that he posted exactly 4 times in each section of the thread. That just is weird to me. it could be coincidental but idk. For the moment I’m going to : **Vote: enderW24** ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/35 "2017-01-25T01:18:18Z")
I don’t see any reason to go ahead and lynch a 3rd party claimant at this time. If they continue to survive further down the road, then yes, let’s throw one in as a second or third lynch and shake 'em like a piñata to see what comes out. I’m somewhat optimistic that their role reveal will show hostile or non-hostile, since the given PM from **crys** does show that. Of course that could be faked all around, but if I were altering a PM I’d change as little about it as possible. Change “hostile” to “non-hostile”, tweak the win condition, bada-bing bada-boom. The run onto **ToeJam** so late yesterDay was weird, and I don’t know what to make of it. We know it wasn’t scum trying to save their own teammate, and I don’t see the **Brewha** voters as scum jumping ship from a vote they know is going to turn up Town, because a) they don’t know that, Mafia would only know it wasn’t them and Wolves the same, and could have been scum from their opposing team, and b) a vote for a liar who turns out to be Town is pretty easily defensible. I don’t necessarily believe in lynching _all_ liars, but typically IME liars are not Town, and if they are, should fess up sooner than later when possible. If Brewha had done so when he claimed, I think many of us would have found that understandable. However, in the matter of **ToeJam** , although the late Day vote jumps onto him seem odd to me, I do recognize the aggressive style of play he came back with. I know of at least once in a previous game that Townie-me was poked and prodded and absolutely enraged by scum-him. I only recall seeing that from him as scum. Take that with a grain of five-year-old salt, as that’s how long I’ve been gone. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/36 "2017-01-25T01:19:29Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Dammit. Cross Posted in Day 2: Yeah i know I just wanted to put it out there who I investigated. I gave the information in good faith do with it what you will lol. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/37 "2017-01-25T01:19:42Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Hooker’s Day Three Thoughts > > **ToeJam** - ToeJam needs to be flipped. The idea that the late wagons onto TJ were scum driven border on the ridiculous[1]. Because those votes were coming off mod confirmed townies. A major factor for the late wagon on him was that I and others were content to let the mods make the kill (or sub) for us. I still believe my early case (D1.568) [2]. His posts are self-contradicting. His actual play (overly accommodating - “If you’re town, just ask me to clarify”) does not match his’s claimed playstyle (aggressive and confrontational). TJ is too accommodating and eager to be free of questioning. TJ did a complete 180 on Colby in the span of 9 posts and less than an hour. TJ fell under suspicion and went into a lurk so deep it nearly required mod intervention [3]. > > Since emerging from the lurk, TJ’s most posts have been nonsense. I will call attention to his rebuttal of my D1.568 case in post D2.1022, because there is some meat there and you should read his response. I’m not convinced, but it deserves a read. In other posts, he throws down a brewha vote while admitting that he’s severely behind in his reading and states it’s a policy vote (lynch the liars). His “catching up” posts indicate that he gets a townie vibe from brewha, but the vote doesn’t come off. (He later says he thinks brewha is scummy for the plan to have the vig target brewha, but that misreads brewha as being the origin of the plan.) Thinking that TJ would be the daykill makes zero sense because there is little doubt that TJ would be an early contender for the next lynch. The vanilla townie self-targeting thing is so weird I can’t even classify it as scummy, only confusing and nonsense that distracts us from material investigation. > > I’m far from 100% sure ToeJam is scum, but I still like my case and have a moderate scum lean on him. If he is scum, we’ll finally have some decent voting information to analyze. If he’s town, I think looking at the late ToeJam voters will be helpful to find D1 scum voters who were trying to avoid having a mislynch on their record and D2 scum voters pushing for a second mislynch. > > **vote ToeJam** Fair enough. I was expecting to gain Votes on D3. At least I have some time to defend myself (but again, I will be busy with Work M-F, I will be more suited to stuff Saturday, and then away Sunday). So I’ll be trying to keep up with the thread through the Day though, and try to avoid the cluster from D2. –I just ask if you DO vote for me, please give me your personal reasons or Qs to address, etc. Rather than just saying "I agree with “so-and-so”'s Posts. Me Too votes are so infuriatingly silly. At least have a pair and give me a chance to defend myself. Then again, if you think there’s no way for me to avoid a lynch. Then by all means, say that too. 1.I will agree to disagree with you on this point. But fair enough. The votes were coming off a Townie and a claimed 3rd Party on D2. And on D2, **Brewha** was NOT Mod-confirmed until he died. So don’t let PIS get into your eyes to cloud that. D1- I wasn’t here to really see that Wagon in real time. There yeah, I don’t feel that I was being “bussed” on D1. I feel it was more D2 that was more scum driven. 1. I believe I addressed these points during D2. Do you have further questions or issues with my defense there? Or do you actually feel my defense changed nothing- you still “believe your early case”. May I ask why/how I can clarify? 2. Again, you’re reading intent into my “lurking”. There’s no way I can defend against that as I pointed out. You either have to take me at my word that Work has been extremely busy M-F since January started (and note that again my high volume of activity tends to be closer to weekends/holidays) vs. if you believe that was an _Intentional_ act- then I simply cannot change your mind. But I will say that falls then close to become like your arguments for “policy voting”. It’s too easy to hide your votes under the guise of “Well I just think he intentionally was absent and now isn’t” –My counterpoint- which I made to \*\*RavenThief \*\*- If i was intentionally lurking, why didn’t I just wait until the Night to Post to avoid the NightKill? That part was explicitly made to me over FB by **NAF**. 4/5: I address the Brewha thing with Guiri above. And I point out the VT targetting themselves rationale above. The VT thing is a silly idea, but what’s wrong with some silliness in this game? As always, -R \*Unless you felt that was too accommodating. In which case, screw you. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/38 "2017-01-25T01:22:57Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Dammit. Cross Posted in Day 2: > [@Mafia Reunion - Day Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1370): > > You realize this means nothing for the Town? > > -You could be telling the truth. You could be lying to save a fellow Survivor. You could be lying who you investigated. At this point it’s just WIFOM. You really think after yesterDay that everyone would be totally okay with **crys** _not_ telling us who she says she investigated and what the result was? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/39 "2017-01-25T01:25:04Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > You really think after yesterDay that everyone would be totally okay with **crys** _not_ telling us who she says she investigated and what the result was? I know. It’s just turtles all the way down. Okay. Time for some productivity! Adios. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/40 "2017-01-25T01:46:03Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Let’s settle this nonsense. > > **Mods, can a vanilla player target themselves to produce an observable effect?** **I have no idea what that would actually mean, so let’s say “No.”** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068.md?page=3)