# Mafia Reunion - Day Three **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068 "2017-01-24T20:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/401 "2017-01-26T23:54:57Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Happy day 3! Finished first skim quickly! > > Wow, I’m surprised at how ToeJam’s claim has been received. It sets off all sorts of alarms for me, I don’t think I’m that biased > > - First, I think it’s bs that scum look for breadcrumbs, on N0? A player leaves breadcrumbs to be able to point back at, not for others to stumble across. Also, I don’t see any of those posts as breadcrumbs - what am I missing? Scum look for extra info, extra attention, changes in playstyle, tells - not crumbs. > - Arguably a doc is just as important as a cop, why risk drawing attention to yourself at all? Especially with hitman and outrider roles > - N1 he self-protected? So he had time to submit an order but not read the thread? Or he read the thread, noticed that he was still alive, and submitted the order, but then all that bs on D2 about being shocked and surprised? > - he says he only came back D2 because of the facebook post, but he was in contact with the mods on N1 - he PM’d them his order? > - he says scum would bus him, bus not vote or pile on? > - his concern about not having time to defend himself on D2 - how long does it take to say stop, I’m the doc! > - I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player do a self-wow, ever. Feels like more bs to me, smoke and mirrors, if he spent 1/4 of the time hunting scum I’d be happy > - He continues to misrepresent the case against him, his absence was a compounding factor, not the primary reason > - I love how he’s basking in self-glory, he’s just so amazingly great at breadcrumbing and fooling scum, he can barely believe it himself, wha? His plan was to get himself lynched or NK’d? > - His whole “townies without power should target themselves”, he claimed to be doing just that in #1221 > - His “that’s what I’d do if I was scum- start bread crumbing a fake cult” comment, so you fake breadcrumb when you’re scum? > - more self-obsession “I also know that yeah, there’s NO reason for scum to target me as I’m a free lynch” becomes “I think I’m still dying today, but probably Day killed rather than Lynched.” > > I suspect it’s an ploy to get the real doc Seward to claim, or a gambit to attract a cop, to be watched? Yet I’m torn because it’s a doc claim, and Sario poofed, and Septimus is dead. If it’s a real claim, he sure is likely to be targeted by scum, if it’s fake, the other scum team may still think it could be real, and take a shot anyway. Bleuggh, yuck, eww. This reaction is in line with my own. A power role trying to come off as a different power role makes no sense. I could see vanilla trying to come off as power or power trying to come off as vanilla, but not power as power. And the self-protection on N1 is not consistent with ToeJam’s participation or reaction to the D1 votes. As a side note, I have fake breadcrumbed as scum. We caught a real breadcrumb and I fake crumbed that I was their backup. Alas, I never got to make that claim, but I was so happy to see the flip on that night kill was what we thought it would be. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/402 "2017-01-27T00:02:45Z")
So regarding Rooshjam’s…thing: > [@ToeJam](#): > > Hello there. I’m RoOsh… and I used to play Mafia here a long time ago, This is my last Will and Testament. I know it might be early, and people may debate it, but lets be honest. I’m up for the Noose, and I was expecting this at some point toDay. > > \*FYI: There are no hidden messages in here. This is just the Truth. The random caps or phrases or whatever… that’s just Me. Don’t waste your time with it. \* > > Some things up front: > AKA: A peek into the Mind of ToeJam as he prepared to Play the Game > > 1. I have been Absent. M-F. I work long hours. Those were not intentional Lurks, but really were just absences. Sorry there wasn’t a brilliant play D1 or into D2, but that’s just honestly what it is. It did put a wrinkle into my plans however, as I DID have Plans for D1 and D2. I felt i still accomplished my D2 plans however. > > 2. So when I got my role this game… I looked through the game mechanics and all the various roles, and it was daunting. But I like making Mafia Fun for Me. And for the Viewers at home. And I wanted to be pro-town because I AM TOWN (please do try to give me that bit of doubt- my actions, while odd or usual were all done with the goal to Help the Town… even my stupid Target yourselves Ideas). > > 3. So anyways. I got my role and I made an executive decision this game based on a thing \*\*Storyteller \*\*once long ago had bemoaned in an Mafia game spoiler board ages ago: > > He was bemoaning the usage of _Breadcrumbs_, and how they can hurt the town at times… because Most Town Players aren’t looking for breadcrumbs during the game. They’re looking for “slips” but most well-intentioned breadcrumbs like cops leaving clues, or masons trying to talk to each other- are NOT picked up by regular Vanilla Townies. HOWEVER, SCUM actively DO look for breadcrumbs to try to pick up on PowerRoles. \*\*Story \*\*was bemoaning that game where Scum was able to pick off power roles by looking for those clues, and \*\*Story \*\*was noting there’s gotta be a better way or that it might be better NOT to breadcrumb too much because the ones who will notice more likely are Scum. > > –That was the lessons of Story. It stuck with me. All these years. > > 1. So thinking about that… Scum are MORE likely to look for power roles breadcrumbing than Townies are. And may try to use that decision to pick their targets and who to kill… AND knowing we have 2 scum teams (but both are ‘scum’), and so 2 pools of people looking for crumbs…\*\* > –\> I decided to Play the game as a Fake Cop Role.\*\* 🆒 > > 2. If you go back through my posts, my goal was to give off the Vibe of an Investigator type role, the problem? Work/Real Life. So I didn’t really get to do this Day 1. However, Once Day 2 came around, I again started dropping off breadcrumbs to hint that I might be an investigator. > –WHY? > –Because I wanted to. I felt it would throw some heat off the real cops, give them time to investigate. Also, if a REAL Cop did get suspicious of me, well they’d investigate me and I’d come up as Town to them. So all to the Good there. Double Good. Also, I figured then if I caught some heat maybe, Scum might try to bus me, then when I died and ended up town (or revealed my role), we’d have a good chance of an interesting Data pool to investigate. > > 3. I want to make this clear:\*\* > I DO NOT WANT ANY INVESTIGATORS TO ACTUALLY REVEAL THEMSELVES. > I AM NOT A REAL COP. I ONLY PLAYED AS IF I WAS ONE. > I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE AN ACTUAL COP. \*\* > > 4. Anyways, I didn’t expect to get the “Lurker” heat, and even more so was pleased and freaked out though by the D2 sudden run on me. That’s why I was freaking out (so look at my posts and the last 12 hours of D2 via MY eyes: I knew I had in D2 been bread crumbing that I was an investigator type of power role), but in 12 hours I suddenly gained traction for a lynch, and that was too fast for me to create a will and testament. My plan was going TOO WELL. That’s also why I feared then once scum saw I wasn’t going to be Lynched, the Mafia may just plan to Day Kill me on D2. Hence my panic at that. > > 5. But The Vig? - I’ll get to that part later. I took that into account too. Honestly though, I just hoped he’d not target me if he picked up the crumbs, but again- \*\*Storyteller \*\*Logic would dictate against that. > > 6. That’s all good and well, but where’s the proof? > So here we go: > \*\* > Night 0 WOW of ROOSH:\*\* > > 12 Posts (Note some of these are before I’ve even gotten my role): > > 1. #[66](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19896727&postcount=66): I just post about the numbers, thinking about what the the numbers. Estimated there might be 4 3rd Party Roles, but I dunno. I don’t know my role at this point. > > 2. [67](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19896740&postcount=67)): I point out I’m anti-NoLynching and Pro-Vigging, because I’d rather the Vigs make up their own minds at night and choose. This is general stances. > > 3. [74](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19896792&postcount=74)) : Responding to \*\*Meeko \*\*about reading into the Flavor from my first post. It’s more guessing. Trying to read into the Flavor of the game- bullets, fire, etc. Now I’m less caring about those things, but it’s fair game for a N0 discussion. I guess there’s 37 townies because of 37 bullets. Again. Still don’t know my role. > > 4. [75](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19896796&postcount=75)) Again responding to **Meeko** , and officially noting, I don’t know my role yet. > > 5. [173](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19898562&postcount=173)) This post points out basically I’ve gotten my role. Then just general helpful Townie advice (Null Tell). > > 6.[218](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19898969&postcount=218): I’m pro-Patsy claiming D1 (but sadly I’m not around D1 to follow up on this), because It’d put scum into the WIFOM of do they claim Patsy or not. I start discussing what power roles should do when dealing with the Patsy. I mention Doctors, Investigators, and Vigs. Why? > –\> At this point, I’m getting it into my head: **I want to play Fake.Cop.** I want scum to start associating Power Roles with me… because I don’t think Townies will be looking AS hard for those sorts of subtle hints. So I need to start making scum associate power roles = me. Then Cop to me. > > 1. [220](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19898991&postcount=220)) Random Townie advice to a Noob ( **SunnyDaze** ) and fluffy moral boosting Townie speech. Null tells, I’d do this if i was scum too. > > 2. [221](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19898994&postcount=221)) Response clarification/agreement to **Boozy PI** ’s advice. > > 3. [249](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19899303&postcount=249): This was my One actual Legit breadcrumb. My conversation with **Boozy**. I had been interacting with him I realized I could drop a hint that no one would really get because it’s hidden in fluff. > > 4. [412](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902427&postcount=412): Normal Phase, Sinjin, Guiri have found me suspicious- I ask how I can help clarify things. Again, it’s N0, I’m not trying to make enemies at this point, and I’ve got to play the long game. A fake cop confessing on D1 is useless, the goal is to last longer. > \*I respond at length to **Sinjin**. I again breadcrumb a hint of a power role in the response by naming them a few times. (Again, goal is just to have the people actively looking --Scum-- to see who keeps bringing up power roles and to associate them with me). > –\>I taunt the Scum knowing what I’m doing. > > 5. [415](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902457&postcount=415): Re: **Pleonast**. I had attracted some attention about discussing power roles via my Patsy discussion. \*\*Pleonast \*\*wants me to discuss 3rd party and scum actions, I don’t want to do that really. I give my thoughts on D1 strategies, and then also again my null tell: random helpful townie advice. > –\>I then ask the Mods, because \*\*Pleonast \*\*confuses me genuinely with his talk of scum/3rd party having no way to coordinate. I just had assumed Scum get boards, but then with his comments, I wondered if maybe I was wrong on that, and they don’t have boards. So I asked the Mods. ((Later I’ll realize he meant coordinate with each other- like Wolves to Mafia, which to me was just 😕 I didn’t even think like that) > > 6. [441](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19902962&postcount=441): Reply to \*\*Sachetorte \*\*who smudges me for being too differential to \*\*Sinjin \*\*and others (which i later explain why on D2). > -I clarify my misread of the \*\*Pleonast \*\*question- point out my thoughts- unlikely for scum to cross communicate with each other. > > Thus ends my N0. I thought I had done well, I had dropped some power role hints, nothing crazy strong, and I had gotten 3-4 players on my tail ( **Sinjin** , Normal Phase, and **Guiri** , along with **Sachetorte** ) > –That was my goal, I figured I’d get some heat for it, but didn’t want to get anything crazy, because again my thoughts were it’s not going to be most Townies picking up on those, but maybe some people who are actively looking for power role hints. > –In Retrospect, ironically **Normal Phase** the investigator was one of those people. This was my goal to ping the power roles and hey, if I drew the investigation I knew I’d show up Town, so it’s all good. > > Well, onto the ShitPlay Day that was Day 1: > > 5 Posts: > 1 &2. [123](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905221&postcount=123)) and post [124](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905230&postcount=124)(which is just an attempt to fix formatting): I confess that I am **Ro0sh**. I drop again like a crumb of a hit by mentioning my \*\*Shoelessness \*\* from like one of the FIRST mafia games i ever played on the Dope. But i picked it because in that game I was claiming without claiming- going for the Shu Vibe and claiming not to be a Shu. It’s a crumb for the OG Players from back in the day. Maybe just something for the peanut gallery. But it was relevant to what I’m currently doing. Claiming but not claiming. And pointing out my “old habits”. I explain who I am for the new people who may not know me. I can be aggressive, I can be odd/controversial in my thoughts of playing mafia (Ie: I think it’s okay to Fake Claim Power Roles if you have information that you think can benefit Town and will not cause mass confusion - though I’m not going to say that D1, because I know that gets me lynched SUPER Quick by like \*\*Pleonast \*\*or other guys in the past. Also, Note- I’m a fan of “Lynch All Liars”. However, I would like to point out I’m not LYING. I’m freely admitting that I’m a FAKE COP. Lying would be claiming to be a Cop in an intent to mislead the TOWN. Misleading Scum- well fuck them) > Back to the post > -I try to defend myself against accusations of “I sound too Townie”. Again, this is a null tell with me in the past. I always “sound Townie” because I always post “helpful” townie advice in the past. Actually. This whole thing summing up my playstyle- I agree with it. I’ve been playing Lazier as a Townie. As scum, I’m anal retentive and feel i play scum stronger than I do Town, and I did feel intimidated with a game this size and with new players. > -I point out Colby’s Slip up seems a slip up. Again. It’s a fair thing to put down a vote for at the start of D1, but I expect he’ll probably defend himself later and explain it. > -random townie advice > > - I espouse my pro-tracking votes over the course of the game, and I feel D1 votes will only get more important over time. in previous games (when I had more time) i enjoyed going through daily vote changes and seeing if there’s scum to be had in there. Here i was (naively) expecting to be able to do the same. > –I respond to **Klutz** : he found my confusion over **pleonast** ’s comments N0 suspicious. I noted eh. I clarified but I don’t care much over it. > > 1. #[128](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905276&postcount=128): Vote Count Post. Again, this is what I like to do, track votes/nonvotes, and cross off, as well as color coding roles. I was expecting to do this for the rest of the game. I sadly have no time for it. And hope someone else actually DOES want to do this. I find them extremely helpful if you do daily ones esp. by endgame when it’s all filled in with colors. > > 2. [132](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905303&postcount=132): I put down my early vote for Colby. Again i start looking for voting patterns with “3 quick votes” on Colby. But I do agree with \*\*Mhaye \*\* (from later in D3)- which is sometimes the best way to get information is to put down votes and to drive up a lynch. Plus, at that time, I figured Sunday AM, that was the most I had, and probably over the week we’d get more info and I’d move my vote around. > –I **FOS SunnyDaze** as I felt her vote vs. me was more “Me too” though again, I don’t put huge weights into the FOS, but just a mile marker for my brain of what i noticed during that time period. I acknowledge it’s a weak vote, it’s not fully ‘scummy’, and I recalled in my own head- she was a self-proclaimed Noob, so I didn’t have a great read, but it was there. > > 3. [133](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19905308&postcount=133). Fluff post- shout out to Drainbead and I acknowledge it as an OOG shout out. > > Then… That’s it for Day 1. So to point out, all those posts were on Sunday. I had the expectation that I’d be back to do more analysis, get more data, and have more people up there to discuss. I was going to get back into vote counting, and I was basically in the honeymoon phase of Mafia. And at that point, I didn’t really have a lot of heat, I wasn’t worried, and didn’t think myself as a huge target. It’s good to have some suspicion. > –But then Monday hit… and work hit hard and Poof I was Gone– > > So yeah. I guess if you want to call it “Lurking” I can’t say thing to change your mind. But Goddamn. Somehow from those 3 (because one was a repost, and one was OOG fluff) posts from D1 and my thoughts on the Patsy and \*\*pleonast \*\*interactions on N0, I somehow nearly became a lynch leader?! > > –\> So in my Head, when I came back on D2 and saw that I nearly got lynched for just that on D1… I was like :eek: Because I knew I was trying to draw some heat, and I had been mentioning power roles N0 mostly, and the goal was to get onto scum’s radar, but I didn’t think I had done enough or if Scum would THAT QUICKLY pick up on my crumbs that I was a power role of some sort. > > But yeah. So when I showed up D2. My goal was to avoid the lynch, but again continue to drop hints that I was a Fake Cop… > > In summary; TL;DR: > My intent since the Start of the game was to play the Game as a **Fake Cop Role.** I missed most of the game though, and then showed up D2, and started trying to drop fake Cop hints like crazy. > So please analyze my D2 Paranoia and N2 thoughts knowing that: I was trying to play Fake Cop to see if I Could find scum/draw an NK/WIFOM situation. I was going into the end of the lynch with 3 potential people for lynch, and I wasn’t a target. I thought I was safe and was planning to continue that on D3. Suddenly, in the last 12 hours, a HUGE BUS comes up to lynch ME, and I get super paranoid because my plan worked TOO well. > > \*and what about Vig Kills wouldn’t I be worried about that? > No. I’m not afraid of the Vig. Hell it’s why on D2 I was suspicious that there were more kills. > It’s also why I came up with my ridiculous “Townies should target themselves.” But noooo… you whiney babies had to go running to your Mods nappies rather than have some faith in your OGs. > > I am a Town Power Role, which I breadcrumbed N0 to Boozy (Calling him the Sleuth for basically pointing out my IRL role is my InGameRole. > I’m actually your fucking doctor: Doctor Seward > N1: I protected myself. (Good catch, **Guiri**. Yeah, Everynight I had targeted myself. Why’d I want everyone to do it. So if a watcher saw me, they might WIFOM that the Mods let me get away with it rather than assume I was a power role, but noooo…) > N2: I protected myself. (Because screw your third parties. I only trust one person here so far). > N3: I’m going to get Hitmanned if I don’t get lynched toDay. > Good Luck Town, you guys will need it. :mad: > > -R Can someone who has played with Toeoosh before tell me if this is the sort of thing he does? If Biotop had written something like this, I’d be tasting blueberries (Meaning this is the kind of thing he does (or did, I think he’s upped his game since) as scum and is called on it) I’d rather not lynch our doctor. But I can see this as a last minute scumgambit to out the real doctor. But I do like Paul’s idea on letting scum sort him out instead of wasting a lynch. So I’m not going to revote him today. I’ll vote Idle if he comes back to avoid modkill. Gah! stupid job! Making me do actual work today! Total bollocks! I’ll be back in a bit, hopefully with a vote… ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/403 "2017-01-27T00:08:12Z")
I am afraid I dont understand what benefit there is to playing as a Fake Cop role when you are actually a Power Role. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/404 "2017-01-27T00:10:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I am afraid I dont understand what benefit there is to playing as a Fake Cop role when you are actually a Power Role. NETA I udnerstand trying to get on the scum radar if you are VT, because you are drawing attention away from a real power role. But why would a Doctor pretend to be a Cop? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/405 "2017-01-27T00:55:52Z")
Is there a scenario where Toejam survives? If he is scum making a fake claim, then the other scum faction doesn’t know this and they will try and kill him. If he is town and claiming for real, then he is also dead. Poor Toejam. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/406 "2017-01-27T01:00:26Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I don’t understand \*\*ToeJam \*\* why you would come back on Night 1 and self protect, but then not read the game thread at all. Please explain. Because a doctor not using their power is just not pro-town. I already had my plan from N0 to try to attract scum attention, and I was trying to draw out a scum NK anyways. So it’s easy for me to target myself on N1, and I don’t need to read how N1 turns out. I vote myself, and then I request a Sub and let the poor substitute realize what they’re taking over hopefully. –\>I didn’t need to do anything other than to sign onto the Dope, email the Mods, Self-Protect and be done with it. I still don’t understand how this requires more reading than just having participated in a N0 thread. –\> The N1 self-protect gives the future Doctor a chance to continue playing (as I figured I’d need to sub out likely), and lets the Town keep a power role. That’s why I did it. Only after \*\*NAF \*\*pleading that it was super difficult to sub and asking me to come back did I come back and stay. When I play Mafia, and I’m Town, I want Town to Win then. It takes minimal effort to Vote and keep the Role alive for a D2 Sub at least. Because if I was a VT playing the game, I’d be pissed if my power roles were the ones not participating. ```auto [quote="Plumpudding, post:301, topic:778068"] @ToeJam:[spoiler][/spoiler] Why do all this? Especially as a power? After a hiatus from Mafia, playing in a gigantic reunion game with more than enough confusion already in the mix, with a bunch of new faces as well as old, that don't know you and your playstyle... Why? [/QUOTE] Uh. Hello. My Name's **Ro0sh**. Nice to meet you. :D ``` > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > And if Toejam’s claim is true, then I would argue that there are a lot of other people who need to take a step back and reevaluate. D2 ended at 15-14. Town Brewha got the lynch with now claimed Doc Toejam in a very close 2nd. I don’t think it’s going too far to say that as a whole we are all screwing up. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m mostly just surprised as townie trust lists were not popular when I was active and generally considered bad a priori. Ah well, gameplay evolves. Yeah. IMHO I will say this is a rather Lazy Town playstyle, gone are the days of WOWs and analysis, and in come the snuggles/smudge lists. I admit it’s different world than when I used to play… And when I used to play Mafia, it’s exactly the stuff I’d want to use as scum to try to lynch and manipulate the reads. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Given the WiFoM, and the fact that (if he’s scum) the opposing scum faction also won’t know if he’s telling truth but either way they know he’s either the doc or a member of the opposing faction, so they benefit from his death, I say leave him be for now and let scum sort it out. > [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > That’s a good point about letting scum sort it out. My initial reaction was also that he was lying but I don’t want to risk it. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > My thought process is very simple. If ToeJam is telling the truth, the scum will want to get rid of him. If he’s not dead by Day 5, I start looking squinty-eyed at him. This keeps coming up a lot and it’s incorrect. Several players are basically trying to smudge the doctor by saying “let scum sort it out”. Here’s the problem with that: –\> This is not a regular game of Mafia. This is Double Mafia. There are Scum for the VTs, but for power roles, there are two classes of threats. I’m a threat NOT To “Scum” as many have said. –\> I’m a Threat to the “Werewolves” (As they are the one’s with a NK) –The MAFIA - they have nothing to fear from me. I cannot affect their Day Kills. However, in an interesting game balance twist- they have the one role that I DO FEAR: The Hitman- as the Hitman is the NK Protector Killer. So this whole “Oh let scum sort it out” is bullshit and either being done purposefully or out of ignorance (and I’m guessing it’s a mix in those smudging my claim). Really it’s only “Let the Werewolves sort it out”… and give the Mafia the finger on the trigger for killing me anytime they want- Day or Night, as i cannot protect against any Mafia threats on my life. So for the MAFIA- it behooves them to keep me alive- I’m basically a VT to them, but to the Werewolves I’m a huge threat to their wincon because I can block a potential NK of theirs or they can WIFOM trying to NK me and hope I Didn’t self-protect (honestly, it behooves them to just try to pick targets that I’m not likely to protect as I can’t be everywhere) The only reason that the Mafia would want to NK me earlier is if there is a claimed Investigator that might be a threat to them and I’m protecting the Investigator, again in which case, the Mafia can just day kill me. So this whole… “the longer he stays alive, the more scummy he is…” –\>That’s just feeding into what the Mafia ScumTeam wants to happen, but NOT the Werewolf team (Though that’s the sort of thing that the Wolves would be fine with for getting me lynched and out of their hair) ```auto [quote="AngeloftheNorth, post:384, topic:778068"] You pinpointed what bugs me about the claim. Why would a doc ever try to get people to believe he was a cop? [/QUOTE] Again. Because I'm a handicapped Doc. I'm good against the Vig, and against Werewolves. So that's 8 players in a game of 52. The two Doctor roles are really weakened, and have a plot twist to them in that the opposing Scum Team has a specific power that specifically kills the NightDoc and the DayDoc. So #1: I'm a handicapped doctor playing in a huge ass game. #2: Who the crap am I going to protect on Day 1-3 barring Investigator claims? Do I just self-protect and try to last till endgame and hope to wait until endgame? I may be arrogant, but I'm not THAT amazing1 at finding scum that I just need to outlast everyone. Plus, I know my playstyle- I do tend to easily get lynched by players who know how to play against me (*cough* **Sach, Boozy, Storyteller** *cough*) #3: So... Playing a 50+ Mafia Game... how do i MAXIMIZE my efficiency as a Doctor? --> By trying to draw out scum. Some people play passively and analyze for scum... but in order to do that, you need to have things to analyze. Lynches and busses are keys to that but townies are likely to lynch townies esp in a huge game (I mean D1: you guys' top 3 was basically 2 VTs and a Power role who was absent minus 3 posts). That's rich data in there. because why of all the lurkers was I the juiciest enough to get double digits from 3 posts and my N0 stuff? you need people to drive that lynch for a few days to get it to the last Hour. --> So again, as a Doctor role- my goal was I knew the limitations of my role. So I made it more Pro-Town. It's a risk, but someone's gotta have the balls to take a risk, and the loss of a handicapped Doc isn't that big a deal in the long run. --> So my goal was to try to get rid of an NK. And the people who get NK'ed? The one's scum feel they cannot lynch during the day, or investigators, because then every day an investigator is alive is another chance of scum being discovered. --> That's why I said I'll do the Fake Cop. -It draws scum attention. And that leads to a 50-50 of having the Wolves at least try to take a shot at me. And because they think I'm a Cop and it's early game... the Hitman (From the Mafia side) is less likely to think I'm protected and may not be looking to go for a kill. So if I can block a Wolf Kill for one night... then I've MAXIMIZED the utility of my limited role.... And it'll also make the WOLVES suspicious of me... but they cannot NK me (Outrider is the anti-DayDoc), so then they have to resort to trying to get me lynched. -> Trying to lynch the Cop is difficult to do, and would require trying to kill a guy w/o letting him get a chance to claim (That in my eyes is what I was worried/seeing in the final 12 hours of D2---> Because that lynch against me... is the perfect way to Bus a Town Power Role). Noone in that wagon against me stopped to consider "What if he's a power role" "Should we let him claim?" That's shit town play... town got too blood thirsty there. :mad: But yeah. That's why experienced players being Docs should ALWAYS consider playing a Fake-Cop. Especially in bigger games. Because it's less likely to get that perfect combo of Cop/Doc double reveal or a Cop who reveals day 1 or 2. Investigators are more likely to want to lay low... maybe drop some breadcrumbs and wait til they actually find scum before claiming. But that can take forever when the pool has 33+ none scum. So the doctor is just wasting his self-protects... especially if the Scum is never even considering him for a NK. And getting heat isn't enough- because a VT with smudges and heat... is not likely to get NK'ed. But a suspected COP with heat.... the Scum will NOT want to keep that person alive overnight to "lynch" the next day... because if scum suspect he's a cop, they know that if they push the lynch, they're going to have a cop claim and then they risk having a cop who they cannot get to due to a protection. -R 1. Alright, I am pretty frigging amazing though. :D ``` ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/407 "2017-01-27T01:04:24Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > But why would a Doctor pretend to be a Cop? tl;dr from above: Because The Wolves can waste a NK on a Cop without realizing he’s self-protecting. Then they have WIFOM trying to target him and wasting their kills even if they suspect he’s the doctor eventually because they don’t have the one role that can NK the protector. They then may have to figure out how to create a shitty lynch to try to kill him. The Mafia are the ones who want to ID the DOC and then just follow him. They can DK or Protect Kill him anytime they want. But they WANT the DOC to fuck with the Werewolves. The one risk in my plan is… if the Mafia picks up on the Doc, then they may just DK the COP thinking that he’s a cop. But then that fucks them over as they’ve just killed the NK Doc. It’d be my own personal “f\*ck you” to them too. And in all of this buys the real cops more time then. Though, we already lost one from the start -\_- But yeah: A Doctor is a better Fake Cop than a VT. Docs are overrated the bigger the game gets. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/408 "2017-01-27T01:11:45Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Poor Toejam. I realized that Last night. I had been debating claiming yesterday vs. toDay, knowing no matter what I did- I was ruining myself by claiming. I could have just claimed Fake-Cop, and VT. But that’s still going to go to lynch. I could have claimed just Doctor, but they you guys don’t understand my play- and everything I’ve been doing… the goal has been to leave Data at least behind by my death. But yeah. I don’t expect to make it to endgame. Especially if the Wolves start losing… but I suspect people will be trying to lynch me instead late game… because I’m a “safe lynch” and they can just go “whoops” on reveal. Currently, there’s a lot of people who were gunning for me hard D1 and D2, and voted for me… but as soon as I claimed, they got real quiet and became Pro-Me. That’s STILL scummy to me.\*\* BioTop. SunnyDaze. Sinjin. Guiri. ThingFish\*\*. You guys would all be on my “smudge list” if I made those things. But at this time I’m going to vote for my more suspicious guy: The one who advocated the 3rd party lynch: Unvote\*\* Vote Professor Pepper. \*\* Because a “mechanical” vote on D3? After there’s all these rich vote counts to go through? It’s just shitTown play to pretend this is still a numbers game. There are people (scum even) with bad votes on their records and that should be the focus, not just trawling the lurkers or low posters. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/409 "2017-01-27T01:14:37Z")
**Guiri**. I didn’t forget your post. But i’ll respond to your comments separately. . ```auto Also, if you're the one bitching about me doing my own WOW, why didn't you do me? I requested for a WOW. I even requested for a D2 WOW having explained my N0-D1 stuff yesterday. But nice job just complaining for making me do the work for you, especially after I said it'd look really suspicious if I did my own WOW. --So then, are you gonna do my D2? Is that you volunteering? Or do you want me to do that one for you too so you can complain about it? ``` ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/410 "2017-01-27T01:34:16Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Paul, Capt. Klutz and Sunny Daze changed their votes to ToeJam from Crys. There were some other votes onto ToeJam at the end, which, if it had continued, might have saved brewha. > > Since brewha has been revealed as Town, there’s not much cause for suspicion, as far as I can see. Severely snipped… I never moved my vote off of Brewha. I haven’t ever voted Toejam. At a minimum that portion of this is incorrect, Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/411 "2017-01-27T01:36:22Z")
“I’m with the CID, although I told your boss I’m with the CIA. It throws people off who think I’m with the CIC.” - Colonel Flagg ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/412 "2017-01-27T01:38:32Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > So, on D1 and D2 there isn’t enough Data to really make a good case. This is D3. Here they are: The Mafia and the Wolves are most likely found in these 14 people: > > **Svejk, Cygnus42, Khameleon, Howkeyop, Hal Briston, DiggitCamara, Nanook, > BillMC, Koldanar, MHaye, nesta, Zeriel, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler** > > The order is from least-to-highest posters. Yes, I considered people who’ve subbed in for other people. > > So, having said that, my vote goes to: > > **vote sachertorte** > Not because I think I’m wrong about Scum. It’s because sachertorte and Crys have claimed to be 3P, and harmless LUTHA’s. :smack: I wish I could have a second vote right now. Seriously, the vast majority of your contribution is fluff, and mention of policy votes, and then you drop a horrible policy vote on a subject that occupied a significant portion of Day 2 discussion. I don’t know if you are just playing really badly right now or are scum, but really, this post is one of the scummiest in this game. And those who have played with you before are already voting for you, so they don’t seem to be buying a confused townie stance. I like my vote where it is right now, but don’t be surprised if I move it to you. > [@](#): > > Archangel has said that 3P is always harmful to Town, and, having read through some 20+ games in the last year, I do believe she’s right. And why is that? Why do you think she’s right? And **Angel of the North** , why do you believe this? > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > We only have their word that they’re non-hostile. We do know they’re not Town. So? Who cares at this point if they’re hostile? Do you think they’re going to win within the next 2-3 Days? If not, what’s the rush? We have no evidence they’re a current threat, and 3rd parties are largely useless in the voting record because they almost always vote as town and scum don’t know they’re not town so scum have no reason to adjust their votes for them. So what does their death buy us? > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Other than that, I am still re-reading the thread. One question, however: why does everyone assume that the cult has been “cleared” and is probably non-hostile? > > The thing is that makes me a bit nervous is: > > 1. We only know their role by their reported PM. > > 2. They hold at least a switch. I am assuming that switches are held by members of opposing factions (to maximize WIFOM). Wouldn’t a reveal of the switch help us see whether or not a living townsperson holds a similar switch? If that counterswitch were discovered, we would know for certain if the third party is hostile, wouldn’t it? I don’t know of anyone who considers them cleared. You’re obviously not paying attention. The point you seem to miss is THEY’RE NOT WORTH WORRYING ABOUT AT THIS POINT. FINDING SCUM IS A MUCH MORE IMPORTANT CONCERN RIGHT NOW. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > So regarding Rooshjam’s…thing: > > Can someone who has played with Toeoosh before tell me if this is the sort of thing he does? If Biotop had written something like this, I’d be tasting blueberries (Meaning this is the kind of thing he does (or did, I think he’s upped his game since) as scum and is called on it) r00shJam is always pulling weird shit like this, regardless of alignment. (I’ve only ever played in the same game as him once, and he predates me by a few years, but I’ve kibitzed a few games he’s played in.) As soon as he laid out his plan, I understood the idea of trying to get scum to kill you if you’re a doc who can self-protect because it wastes their kill. I think the whole attempt is silly, but whatever. This is the guy who as scum pretended he had a town role which involved some weird power of having three statements each night, one of which was true, one of which was false, and one of which was undetermined. The role was completely made up of whole cloth. So yeah, r00shJam pulls weird shit like this. His play isn’t outside of the realm of what he does regardless of alignment. If he’s lying, I don’t think actual Seward should counter-claim yet. > [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > 1. Hoopy Frood – leaning scum Care to elaborate? > [@jsgoddess](#): > > 1. Hoopy Frood - slight Town lean Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/413 "2017-01-27T01:40:27Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > “I’m with the CID, although I told your boss I’m with the CIA. It throws people off who think I’m with the CIC.” - Colonel Flagg NETA: Sorry, that was in response to ToeJam’s series of unfortunate epistles. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/414 "2017-01-27T01:44:12Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Having said that, since no one’s going to vote on sachertorte with me, and I’ve mentioned my other suspects… > > **unvote sachertorte** > > **vote Idle Thoughts**. > > Which is probably too little too late. Others are probably going to see it differently, but to me you went from an anti-town vote to an easy vote on someone I think isn’t going to be around for D4 and someone that I think scum would be perfectly happy to sacrifice. Wanna go for the trifecta and change your vote to ToeJam? In all seriousness, my issue is that you want to lynch people who aren’t playing. It requires no analysis and no opinion. We can’t assess your possible motivations unless you start asking people questions, point out scummy behavior, and make your positions on topics and players clear to everyone. A lynch of Idle doesn’t do it for me, but it’s preferable to Sach or Crys. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/415 "2017-01-27T01:54:39Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Because a doctor not using their power is just not pro-town. I already had my plan from N0 to try to attract scum attention, and I was trying to draw out a scum NK anyways. So it’s easy for me to target myself on N1, and I don’t need to read how N1 turns out. I vote myself, and then I request a Sub and let the poor substitute realize what they’re taking over hopefully. > > –\>I didn’t need to do anything other than to sign onto the Dope, email the Mods, Self-Protect and be done with it. I still don’t understand how this requires more reading than just having participated in a N0 thread. > > –\> The N1 self-protect gives the future Doctor a chance to continue playing (as I figured I’d need to sub out likely), and lets the Town keep a power role. That’s why I did it. Only after \*\*NAF \*\*pleading that it was super difficult to sub and asking me to come back did I come back and stay. > > When I play Mafia, and I’m Town, I want Town to Win then. It takes minimal effort to Vote and keep the Role alive for a D2 Sub at least. Because if I was a VT playing the game, I’d be pissed if my power roles were the ones not participating. > > ```auto > > Uh. > > Hello. My Name's **Ro0sh**. Nice to meet you. :D > > ``` > > Yeah. IMHO I will say this is a rather Lazy Town playstyle, gone are the days of WOWs and analysis, and in come the snuggles/smudge lists. I admit it’s different world than when I used to play… And when I used to play Mafia, it’s exactly the stuff I’d want to use as scum to try to lynch and manipulate the reads. > > This keeps coming up a lot and it’s incorrect. Several players are basically trying to smudge the doctor by saying “let scum sort it out”. > > Here’s the problem with that: > > –\> This is not a regular game of Mafia. This is Double Mafia. > > There are Scum for the VTs, but for power roles, there are two classes of threats. > > I’m a threat NOT To “Scum” as many have said. > > –\> I’m a Threat to the “Werewolves” (As they are the one’s with a NK) > > –The MAFIA - they have nothing to fear from me. I cannot affect their Day Kills. However, in an interesting game balance twist- they have the one role that I DO FEAR: The Hitman- as the Hitman is the NK Protector Killer. > > So this whole “Oh let scum sort it out” is bullshit and either being done purposefully or out of ignorance (and I’m guessing it’s a mix in those smudging my claim). > > Really it’s only “Let the Werewolves sort it out”… and give the Mafia the finger on the trigger for killing me anytime they want- Day or Night, as i cannot protect against any Mafia threats on my life. > > So for the MAFIA- it behooves them to keep me alive- I’m basically a VT to them, but to the Werewolves I’m a huge threat to their wincon because I can block a potential NK of theirs or they can WIFOM trying to NK me and hope I Didn’t self-protect (honestly, it behooves them to just try to pick targets that I’m not likely to protect as I can’t be everywhere) > > The only reason that the Mafia would want to NK me earlier is if there is a claimed Investigator that might be a threat to them and I’m protecting the Investigator, again in which case, the Mafia can just day kill me. > > So this whole… “the longer he stays alive, the more scummy he is…” > > –\>That’s just feeding into what the Mafia ScumTeam wants to happen, but NOT the Werewolf team (Though that’s the sort of thing that the Wolves would be fine with for getting me lynched and out of their hair) > > ```auto > > Again. Because I'm a handicapped Doc. I'm good against the Vig, and against Werewolves. So that's 8 players in a game of 52. The two Doctor roles are really weakened, and have a plot twist to them in that the opposing Scum Team has a specific power that specifically kills the NightDoc and the DayDoc. > > So #1: I'm a handicapped doctor playing in a huge ass game. > > #2: Who the crap am I going to protect on Day 1-3 barring Investigator claims? Do I just self-protect and try to last till endgame and hope to wait until endgame? I may be arrogant, but I'm not THAT amazing1 at finding scum that I just need to outlast everyone. Plus, I know my playstyle- I do tend to easily get lynched by players who know how to play against me (*cough* **Sach, Boozy, Storyteller** *cough*) > > #3: So... Playing a 50+ Mafia Game... how do i MAXIMIZE my efficiency as a Doctor? > > --> By trying to draw out scum. Some people play passively and analyze for scum... but in order to do that, you need to have things to analyze. Lynches and busses are keys to that but townies are likely to lynch townies esp in a huge game (I mean D1: you guys' top 3 was basically 2 VTs and a Power role who was absent minus 3 posts). That's rich data in there. because why of all the lurkers was I the juiciest enough to get double digits from 3 posts and my N0 stuff? you need people to drive that lynch for a few days to get it to the last Hour. > > --> So again, as a Doctor role- my goal was I knew the limitations of my role. So I made it more Pro-Town. It's a risk, but someone's gotta have the balls to take a risk, and the loss of a handicapped Doc isn't that big a deal in the long run. > > --> So my goal was to try to get rid of an NK. And the people who get NK'ed? The one's scum feel they cannot lynch during the day, or investigators, because then every day an investigator is alive is another chance of scum being discovered. > > --> That's why I said I'll do the Fake Cop. > > -It draws scum attention. And that leads to a 50-50 of having the Wolves at least try to take a shot at me. And because they think I'm a Cop and it's early game... the Hitman (From the Mafia side) is less likely to think I'm protected and may not be looking to go for a kill. So if I can block a Wolf Kill for one night... then I've MAXIMIZED the utility of my limited role.... And it'll also make the WOLVES suspicious of me... but they cannot NK me (Outrider is the anti-DayDoc), so then they have to resort to trying to get me lynched. > > -> Trying to lynch the Cop is difficult to do, and would require trying to kill a guy w/o letting him get a chance to claim (That in my eyes is what I was worried/seeing in the final 12 hours of D2---> Because that lynch against me... is the perfect way to Bus a Town Power Role). Noone in that wagon against me stopped to consider "What if he's a power role" "Should we let him claim?" That's shit town play... town got too blood thirsty there. :mad: > > But yeah. > > That's why experienced players being Docs should ALWAYS consider playing a Fake-Cop. Especially in bigger games. Because it's less likely to get that perfect combo of Cop/Doc double reveal or a Cop who reveals day 1 or 2. Investigators are more likely to want to lay low... maybe drop some breadcrumbs and wait til they actually find scum before claiming. But that can take forever when the pool has 33+ none scum. So the doctor is just wasting his self-protects... especially if the Scum is never even considering him for a NK. And getting heat isn't enough- because a VT with smudges and heat... is not likely to get NK'ed. But a suspected COP with heat.... the Scum will NOT want to keep that person alive overnight to "lynch" the next day... because if scum suspect he's a cop, they know that if they push the lynch, they're going to have a cop claim and then they risk having a cop who they cannot get to due to a protection. > > -R > > > > 1. Alright, I am pretty frigging amazing though. :D > > ``` Okay. I think I understood about a third of what you said, but that part did make sense. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/416 "2017-01-27T01:58:15Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > :smack: > > I wish I could have a second vote right now. Seriously, the vast majority of your contribution is fluff, and mention of policy votes, and then you drop a horrible policy vote on a subject that occupied a significant portion of Day 2 discussion. > > I don’t know if you are just playing really badly right now or are scum, but really, this post is one of the scummiest in this game. And those who have played with you before are already voting for you, so they don’t seem to be buying a confused townie stance. > > I like my vote where it is right now, but don’t be surprised if I move it to you. > > And why is that? Why do you think she’s right? > > And **Angel of the North** , why do you believe this? > > So? Who cares at this point if they’re hostile? Do you think they’re going to win within the next 2-3 Days? If not, what’s the rush? We have no evidence they’re a current threat, and 3rd parties are largely useless in the voting record because they almost always vote as town and scum don’t know they’re not town so scum have no reason to adjust their votes for them. So what does their death buy us? > > I don’t know of anyone who considers them cleared. You’re obviously not paying attention. The point you seem to miss is THEY’RE NOT WORTH WORRYING ABOUT AT THIS POINT. FINDING SCUM IS A MUCH MORE IMPORTANT CONCERN RIGHT NOW. > > r00shJam is always pulling weird shit like this, regardless of alignment. (I’ve only ever played in the same game as him once, and he predates me by a few years, but I’ve kibitzed a few games he’s played in.) As soon as he laid out his plan, I understood the idea of trying to get scum to kill you if you’re a doc who can self-protect because it wastes their kill. I think the whole attempt is silly, but whatever. This is the guy who as scum pretended he had a town role which involved some weird power of having three statements each night, one of which was true, one of which was false, and one of which was undetermined. The role was completely made up of whole cloth. > > So yeah, r00shJam pulls weird shit like this. His play isn’t outside of the realm of what he does regardless of alignment. > > If he’s lying, I don’t think actual Seward should counter-claim yet. > > Care to elaborate? > > Care to elaborate? I _did_ believe it but I’ve changed my position on it. I believed it because I have seen “benign” 3rd parties align with scum in voting when it makes it easier for them to survive. The math has been explained to me several times now and I realize it is not valid in this game because the third parties (assuming they are truly non-win stealing) are more detrimental to scum than town. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/417 "2017-01-27T01:59:17Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > But you gave me three different answers to my question, something which is usually indicative of lying. And I know you know me well- well enough to know all my vanity lies in my scum game, a vanity you just appealed to. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro If threefold reasoning is scummy then I should ping you a lot… I approach things from multiple angles… I was going to let the last statement dangle, but I think I have a slightly more town read on you now, so I think it would be better to get it out there. Yes your vanity is in your scum play. Yes I appealed to it. If you were scum I would have expected you to lighten up on me. Instead you call me out for appealing to your vanity… adding to your suspicions of me. I don’t think scum you would do this, but it’s been 5 years… you may have new moves and mine are a little rusty… You follow? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/418 "2017-01-27T02:01:51Z")
Hey guys… if you are gonna quote an entire wow or a particularly long post in its entirety, can you please put it behind spoiler tags? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/419 "2017-01-27T02:15:14Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Is there a scenario where Toejam survives? If he is scum making a fake claim, then the other scum faction doesn’t know this and they will try and kill him. If he is town and claiming for real, then he is also dead. > > Poor Toejam. Yup Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/420 "2017-01-27T02:18:55Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Here’s a little anecdote for all of you: > > Yesterday I visited my pulmonologist to see if my CPAP machine was helping me with my chronic tiredness. (It is.) He informed me that it had to work because it was Mechanical. Yeah, you could hear the capital M. > > And that brought to my mind the fact that, having done the research, I know that (especially with an oversized group such as this) my process of Lynching the Low Count Posters works. Note: I didn’t say Lynch the Lurker. Lurking implies going through the fluff. This is strictly Mechanical. > > You may say you don’t like to play that way. That’s your opinion. My opinion is if it works, and if Town is down 10 players and Scum is down 0, I’m gonna stick to it. > > I have been doing more reading over on MafiaScum. There I found two pieces of advice that encourage me: 1) Town are Idiots. We don’t have the information we desperately need and flail about all ways, hoping to luck into something. 2) Hunt the Scum Team, not just individuals. > > So, on D1 and D2 there isn’t enough Data to really make a good case. This is D3. Here they are: The Mafia and the Wolves are most likely found in these 14 people: > > **Svejk, Cygnus42, Khameleon, Howkeyop, Hal Briston, DiggitCamara, Nanook, > BillMC, Koldanar, MHaye, nesta, Zeriel, Idle Thoughts, Inner Stickler** > > The order is from least-to-highest posters. Yes, I considered people who’ve subbed in for other people. > > So, having said that, my vote goes to: > > **vote sachertorte** > Not because I think I’m wrong about Scum. It’s because sachertorte and Crys have claimed to be 3P, and harmless LUTHA’s. > > Archangel has said that 3P is always harmful to Town, and, having read through some 20+ games in the last year, I do believe she’s right. Crys offered herself up as a sacrificial proof, but she’s just the Second Deacon. sachertorte is the First. She’s protecting him. > > After we get rid of the 3P’s, then we can concentrate on Scum. And the other possibility is, the Deacons are lying, and are actually Scum hiding as harmless LUTHA’s. In which case, we win. What they are not is Town hiding as 3P’s. > **Plum** , I haven’t forgotten your request. I am now going back to my reading, and will have an answer for that either today or tomorrow, as time permits. This is not a numbers game and cannot be solved with math. But you think you’re the player who can finally show the One True Way to resolve a game with minimal effort, is that about right? You’re correct, I don’t buy that premise. You also think we should lynch 3rd party, and only then we can concentrate on scum. I reject that premise too. But the bigger question is, if your Mechanical way is, as you say, what works and what you’re going to stick to, why on earth are you voting for a 3rd party instead?! Neither of your premises make sense to me, but your combination of the two reeeeally doesn’t make sense to me. **vote prof Pepperwinkle** (Now to slog through 8 more hours worth of posts. I hate to post without being fully caught up first, but I just don’t think that’s possible for me at this stage.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068.md?page=22)