# Mafia Reunion - Day Three **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 24, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068 "2017-01-24T20:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/841 "2017-01-29T12:28:36Z")
**Unofficial Vote Count with Unvotes** **IdleThoughts** (15): SunnyDaze(182), raventhief(207), [del]ToeJam(259-408)[/del], HalBriston(300), [del]Prof.Pepperwinkle(398-692)[/del], [del]Paulwhoisaghost(515-710)[/del], Nanook(528), Biotop(533), Plumpudding(552), [del]Angelofthenorth(554-778)[/del], HockeyMonkey(576), Khameleon(593), sinjin(632), CaptainKlutz(699), Lightfoot(715), nesta(731), Hawkeyeop(758), BillMC(765), Zeriel(807), [del]snfaulkner(821-836)[/del] **Prof. Pepperwinkle** (12): TexCat(278), jsgoddess(332), [del]Paulwhoisaghost(343-515)[/del], [del]Pleonast(345-602)[/del], InnerStickler(347), [del]Lightfoot(354-715)[/del], [del]HockeyMonkey(367-576)[/del], ToeJam(408), Bufftabby(420), [del]Biotop(458-532)[/del], Enderw24(588), IdleThoughts(590), Pleonast(602), Safhertorte(656), MHaye(674), Cygnus42(818), TotalLost(837) **Boozahol Squid** (4): HoopyFrood(286), [del]Angelofthenorth(303-554[/del]), [del]CaptainKlutz(487-699)[/del], Guiri(772), Angelofthenorth(778), snfaulkner(83) **Khameleon** (2): Meeko(319), ThingFish(632) **Enderw24** (1): [del]Nanook(28-528)[/del], Crys75(34) **Crys75** (1): BoozaholSquid(499) **Sachertorte** (1): [del]Johnny Bravo(14-536)[/del], [del]Prof. Pepperwinkle(339-398)[/del], Prof.Pepperwinkle(692) **ThingFish** (1): [del]Pleonast(141-345)[/del], Diggitcamara(691) **HockeyMonkey** (1): Lakai(704) **Diggitcamara** (1): [del]Guiri(740-772)[/del], Paulwhoisaghost(796) **Pleonast** (1): [del]Paulwhoisaghost(116-158)[/del], [del]Plumpudding(222-552)[/del], HookerChemical(814) **ToeJam** (0): [del]HookerChemical(9-708)[/del], [del]snfaulkner(17-299)[/del], [del]BillMC(23-673)[/del], [del]Sinjin(53-632)[/del], [del]Biotop(112-296)[/del], [del]CaptainKlutz(118-298)[/del], [del]Angelofthenorth(134-303)[/del] **Non-voters** (3): Cookies, Koldanar, Scathach Scathach voted ToeJam in [143](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19949447&postcount=143) with bad formatting ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/842 "2017-01-29T13:10:32Z")
I’m happy with my vote on **Idle Thoughts** I’m about to go to bed, so I’ll miss the end of Day (as usual) ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/843 "2017-01-29T13:56:47Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I just want to go on record as saying I have strong town leanings on **Normal Phase** and **Chronos** … 🆒 Still catching up. But so far I’ll vote this Best Post Of The Day 😃 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/844 "2017-01-29T14:02:49Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Every time he’s been scum prior to this he’s fooled me. > > He’s never made an apology like this. > > My **unshakeable faith** stems from the apology. (Snipped, bolded by moi) **Angel**. I understand and accept that you follow your intuition as a playstyle much more than the average bear, and apparently you tend to have some success with it. But…_unshakeable faith_? In Mafia? I just can’t understand that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/845 "2017-01-29T14:16:03Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Yep, and what happened in that game? Well, I’ll tell you…because it happens in most ALL GAMES that I play in: People get annoyed and/or irritated with me, they start voting for me being SO SURE I must be scum, because they say I play so “anti-town”…and then…OOPS…I turn out to be Town. > That’s what happened in your only other game played with me. And that’s gonna happen in THIS game as well. So that will be TWO FOR TWO that that has happened in. > Pray tell, if we are to play a THIRD game together, are you going to keep making the same mistake over and over? So let’s get this straight. You play this game in a way that consistently causes you to piss off your teammates and get mislynched. You **know** that you play in a way that causes you to piss of your teammates and get mislynched. And you’re saying that you’re going to \*\*continue \*\*to play in a way that causes you to piss off your teammates and get mislynched. I have bad news for you - you’re playing this game wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/846 "2017-01-29T14:25:42Z")
What piss off my teammates? Did you see my post above? In case you missed it, here it is summed up: At least six or seven people thought/think I’m scum for “meta reasons”, I.E. \*\*Things that haven’t even happened in this game. \*\* It had nothing to do with pissing off anyone. And yes, that reasoning made me frustrated. Even if I were scum, it’d be frustrating, because it would mean people were right, but for all the wrong reasons…but being town, it’s EVEN MORE frustrating because they’re voting for meta reasons…AND…it happens to be **WRONG.** I think I’m allowed some frustration due to that. It’s town playing dumb. It’s rich you say I’m the one playing the game wrong when more than half the people voting for me are for things that didn’t even have anything to do with this game or my posts in it. Here’s the who’s who of who is voting for me: 1/3 for meta reasons, as they said (and which I show the quotes of, above) 1/3 because they’re annoyed or irritated with me or the way I play 1/3 because I said I wanted to be modkilled–which is something I’ve repeatedly said I’m sorry for and that I’ve changed my mind of. Yeah, okay. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/847 "2017-01-29T14:26:10Z")
I still like my vote on **pepperwinkle** , so I’m leaving it there, but I fully support the **idle** lynch that’s happening as of right now’s votes. As I stated when I voted, I don’t like that within the same post, **prof** pushed his LtL strategy as a surefire mechanic to lynch scum, and then proceeded to vote **sachertorte** instead. I do believe that we will need a dead cultist eventually, so we can see what mods reveal regarding hostility of lack thereof, but I don’t want to waste a lynch on that just yet. Sure, scum is unlikely to kill our outed cultists, since having them around is a good lynch target that isn’t scum, but if there are others out there, they may kill them without specifically knowing they’re cultists. That would be far better than using a 1-lynch Day to test them. **Idle** , you want _us_ to adapt and learn regarding his playstyle. But you know what? _I’m_ not the one who keeps getting lynched because I refuse to self-examine my strategies. _I’m_ not the one who’s paying the price. Why should I adapt? I’ll tell you what I am, **idle**. I’m the one who’s been back for two games now, this one and the last GB game, who’s had Days that were markedly less fun because of the hostility you don’t think you exhibit. You’ve made me question why I even came back to play. It’s a _game_, it’s supposed to be _fun_. Please stop making it less fun. That is why you are getting lynched, and that’s why I’m completely okay with it. Sure, there’s meta that suggests you’re scum, but I think that’s beside the point anymore and isn’t the main crux of what’s happening here. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/848 "2017-01-29T14:32:25Z")
> [@Cygnus42](#): > > Hoo boy, this game… > > My thoughts, such as they are - > > Idle Thoughts - pretty comfortable with him as the lynch leader. I read along with the meltdown on Friday afternoon, thinking that this guy wasn’t really going to be helpful either way. So, if he’s scum, which many people believed due to meta-evidence, then all good. Otherwise, maybe we spare ourselves another round of nonsense. > > Prof P. - I got a strong scum suspicion from him, based on some of the comments here earlier (lots of helpful posting, but not much investigation), and my single (1) time of playing with him earlier. I know, small sample size and whatnot, but it seems like Prof is trying to lay low as best he can. I know Angel is convinced that he’s non-scum based on a sincere-sounding apology - and he/she is much more experienced than me - but, I dunno if I buy it. > > Toejam - will be very suspicious if he doesn’t turn up dead in the night, I think. > > BillMC - mild scum lean on this, not exactly sure why, have to review all the old posts again. I do recall the blanket throwing of suspicion on all the new subs though… > > For today, I shall > > **vote Prof P** > > Not the current lynch leader, but I’m OK with either him or Idle today. Of course I’m laying low. Everytime I open my mouth I get votes no matter what I say. ToDay, if you’ll note, I have not been posting much fluff, have done some analysis, picked out who exactly I think are the Scum, and have placed my vote on a self-claimed 3P because, having played Storyteller and Mahaloth’[s games before, I have real difficulty in believing in a harmless 3P. And I know sachertorte is a fairly subtle player, one who could carry it off. (Case in point, he is.) Anyone who says Scum wouldn’t do that misses the cardinal rule: there is nothing Scum won’t do. In short, I’m playing the game. Glad to play with you again, by the way! ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/849 "2017-01-29T14:34:08Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > I’m the one who’s been back for two games now, this one and the last GB game, who’s had Days that were markedly less fun because of the hostility you don’t think you exhibit. [Take a look a this](http://psychopathgame.proboards.com/post/1730). Third to last quote in that post, last sentence. See how I say he’s either a very obvious pirate or a very crappy player? Yeah. I’ve always played this way. In all of my 20 or 25 games. Why is it seen as hostile to call out bad or foolish play if you see it? It’s not something I’m ever going to understand. If I think a person has a crappy reason for voting for someone else, I’m going to call them out on it. And most of the votes for me are for crappy reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/850 "2017-01-29T14:34:23Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > I still like my vote on **pepperwinkle** , so I’m leaving it there, but I fully support the **idle** lynch that’s happening as of right now’s votes. > > As I stated when I voted, I don’t like that within the same post, **prof** pushed his LtL strategy as a surefire mechanic to lynch scum, and then proceeded to vote **sachertorte** instead. > > I do believe that we will need a dead cultist eventually, so we can see what mods reveal regarding hostility of lack thereof, but I don’t want to waste a lynch on that just yet. Sure, scum is unlikely to kill our outed cultists, since having them around is a good lynch target that isn’t scum, but if there are others out there, they may kill them without specifically knowing they’re cultists. That would be far better than using a 1-lynch Day to test them. > > **Idle** , you want _us_ to adapt and learn regarding his playstyle. But you know what? _I’m_ not the one who keeps getting lynched because I refuse to self-examine my strategies. _I’m_ not the one who’s paying the price. Why should I adapt? I’ll tell you what I am, **idle**. I’m the one who’s been back for two games now, this one and the last GB game, who’s had Days that were markedly less fun because of the hostility you don’t think you exhibit. You’ve made me question why I even came back to play. It’s a _game_, it’s supposed to be _fun_. Please stop making it less fun. That is why you are getting lynched, and that’s why I’m completely okay with it. Sure, there’s meta that suggests you’re scum, but I think that’s beside the point anymore and isn’t the main crux of what’s happening here. I understand your vote on me. If I had been thinking, I’d have advanced either the case vs. the 3P’s or the case on the lurkers. But I am Town. At this point, I’m not sure what else I can say. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/851 "2017-01-29T14:37:17Z")
That above game was TEN years ago. Ten years ago I was saying people were playing crappy if I thought they were. You’re only now noticing this? I’ve always played this way. A blunt, outward, aggressive type of player. And more so when…[as I said in post 833](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19959658&postcount=833)…people are voting for me or thinking I’m scum due to meta reasons…not actual gameplay reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/852 "2017-01-29T14:39:02Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > …people are voting for me or thinking I’m scum due to meta reasons…not actual gameplay reasons. I’ll say it again: It’s frustrating. Maybe, instead, people should be more “Hmm, I’ve seen this from Idle before and it’s a null tell”, instead of saying I’m the one that needs to change. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/853 "2017-01-29T14:46:48Z")
All caught up and feel no need to comment on the way Idle is playing. But the way he is playing doesn’t indicate any alignment to me right now. So for now I’ll leave my vote on Prof Pebber. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/854 "2017-01-29T14:47:35Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > That above game was TEN years ago. Ten years ago I was saying people were playing crappy if I thought they were. You’re only now noticing this? I’ve always played this way. A blunt, outward, aggressive type of player. And more so when…[as I said in post 833](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19959658&postcount=833)…people are voting for me or thinking I’m scum due to meta reasons…not actual gameplay reasons. I don’t recall having issues when we played together previously, 5-8 years ago. I have no issue with your tone in that first post. I have issues with your tone in the last two games I’ve played with you. You may feel like it’s the same, but I disagree. You apparently keep doing the same thing and getting the same results these days, I’m not sure why you’re surprised by it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/855 "2017-01-29T14:47:59Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I’m torn now on **Prof.Pepperwinkle**. He posted things I do not think he really believes. Whether he did this as prevaricating Scum or overwhelmed Town is more of a problem. \*\*Angel \*\* is playing her “Town” game. Whether she is doing it as Scum is another question entirely. > > In either case I don’t think **Angel would defend the Professor** so adamantly unless she thought he was actually Town. But then she also says she is always fooled by the **Professer**. Contradictions have never stopped \*\*Angel \*\*before, I suppose. > > I think the “I’m sorry about my poor play” post from **Professor Pepperwinkle** has the same ring of truth that **Lakia** v1 had with his “I’m nobody important” lament on Day 1. > > **But what else would a Scum Professor post? It is not clear to me anymore either way on Professor Pepperwinkle.** > > Somebody in the \*\*Pleonast \*\*/ \*\*Thing Fish \*\* squabble is probably Scum. I would be OK if the vig took a shot there. > > If \*\*ToeJam \*\*is telling the truth (and I think he is), then _maybe our Vig is not automatically being shut off by the switch holder_. I think \*\*ToeJam \*\*was the logical vig target on Night 2, and if he (\*\*ToeJam \*\*) is really self-protecting Doc Seward, then that would be a reason the vig kill did not happen regardless of switch holder action. So our secondary cases here might matter toNight if they can influence the vig. > > I hope we can put the tension from Day3 behind us soon. That atmosphere is no fun to play, and with life issues and world issues so tough right now for so many, I don’t think our games ever need to get like that. > > As with every Sunday, I will miss EOD due to work. No last minute shenanigans this week everyone, OK? Note the bolded part. We’ve played enough together, you should know how I post when Scum. (Oddly enough, I don’t play Scum that often.) I post lower counts of posts than usual. I have Scum knowledge so I can talk my way out of the lynch. I follow the crowd rather than try to push my LtL agenda. And when that doesn’t work I go on full-tilt wacky mode (Toy Story game). I’m Town, and, yeah, I’m overwhelmed. It’s a big game. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/856 "2017-01-29T15:04:37Z")
Idle - you had scum leans on several players and said you think there may be one more scum- how many scum do you think are in this game? ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/857 "2017-01-29T15:04:47Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > This might be less true in a game with 2 Scum-teams because Scum can actually hunt Scum in this game without hurting their own team. > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes. Bill pointed out the fallacy in this thinking earlier and I agreed with him too. I wasn’t thinking that way because I’m town and I see everyone who’s not as the enemy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/858 "2017-01-29T15:05:57Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Idle - you had scum leans on several players and said you think there may be one more scum- how many scum do you think are in this game? In a game this size? At least six. Maybe seven. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/859 "2017-01-29T15:06:29Z")
I doubt it’s any fewer than five. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068/860 "2017-01-29T15:10:04Z")
Neta: here is the bit in particular: Scum STRONG LEANS Hal Briston, I think, is scum. He came in, after doing the exact same thing I’m doing (being mostly inactive) to throw an easy vote onto me after giving an easy “me too” reason for it. Hypocrite much? Prof Pepperwinkle, I think, is scum. He’s second in line with votes and obviously scum are going to want to save him, so they’re ganging up on me. Voted for me, but then suddenly, and very RANDOMLY, switched to sachertorte…uh, why, exactly? Bwha? Completely random and nonsensical voting. I think it’s because PP knows he’s next to go (probably tomorrow after you all lynch ME and see I’m Town and realize “DOH! We should have stayed with PP after all!”) so he’s trying to distance himself from the other scum members as much as possible, so he’s voting for a fellow scummie here. sachertorte, I think, is scum. He held off voting for me…for what good reason? I don’t understand it, because he’s said many times “I think he should be out of the game”, and yet he’s relying on a mod kill that won’t ever be coming. Yeah, that’s it, leave the dirty work to the other, more innocent players. Have THEM vote for me and–when I show up to be Town–start picking on people who were on that pile. But as for right now, he’s voting for Prof P…who is another player I think is scum. Well, if Prof P swings and is scum, indeed, I DO NOT THINK sachertorte should get a free pass just for having voted for him. I think they’re BOTH scum. Scum WEAK LEANS I think Nanook is scum. His vote on me is the weakest of all, I feel. It’s basically a “me too” one. It’s the most “me too” vote of all the “me too” votes I’ve ever seen. I think Hockey Monkey is scum. Mostly for all of the great reasons that Lakai gave. I’ve had a bad taste and feeling reading her posts since I started paying attention yesterday. \*\*I think there may be one more scum… possibly Lightfoot or Angel. \*\* Then you add in toejam too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-three/778068.md?page=44)