# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/241 "2017-01-19T16:31:11Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I believe that a group of individuals working towards a common goal in the same environment are essentially a team, even if they can’t coordinate in private. This seems to be an attempt to stir up yet another argument about nothing. > > I’m selling what to the whom with the why? Dude, I am finding it very difficult to follow the thread of your arguments. Can you tone down the weird for weird’s sake a bit? > > I still am unsure about the wisdom of trying to force through a second lynch, but at this point, I’m leaning towards **Meeko** as a second place vote. Many PM’s in games read " you win when Town wins" is that not, then, your team? ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/242 "2017-01-19T16:31:32Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > I’m just saying that Chronos’s plan doesn’t really prove anything and in it’s worst case has the potential to waste a vig kill on a townie. In it’s best form it proves what? Not that brewha is town exactly. Possibly that brewha actually has a switch? Even then if the vig was targeted by a blocker or one of the one-shot “flip all switches” gets used the whole thing is moot. > > It’s a rube goldberg plan with no very obvious benefit. Waste a vig kill? Batman is as blind as the rest of the town. If he/she kills the runner up in the votes, there’s no guarantee that the person is scum. If batman kills another random town role - like Colby - that’s a waste. If batman kills me, we at least learn things. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/243 "2017-01-19T16:36:25Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > I think that’s a decent plan to have Batman target me tonight. I’ll go ahead and switch my switch off. > > ~snip~. what? think this through , If you are a switcher you have asked questions about the mechanic.so you know more about it But the proposed plan is for you to leave your switch alone ( isn’t it?) Not to switch anything off? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/244 "2017-01-19T16:37:51Z")
I’m just saying, that if you guys don’t understand random [[But logically placed]] SpongeBob SquarePants quotes … Maybe don’t go looking up my signature. Yes, but the 2010 version, they made a few palette swaps, and one or two personality changes… It’s the same idea… But like Next Generation, for ponies… With Q inexplicably more or less showing up in both franchises. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/245 "2017-01-19T16:40:43Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Many PM’s in games read " you win when Town wins" is that not, then, your team? What good is justifying a vote, if no one will see it until the day after, only through a response to a cut and paste repost of the body of text of said justification. … It’s almost as if I’m not playing. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/246 "2017-01-19T16:41:36Z")
So, what are the chances that **Brewha** is a 3P who wins if he’s NK’d? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/247 "2017-01-19T16:46:15Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Not only is my PM not consistent with what Storyteller posted, it is also inconsistent with my Role PM which specifically stated that I had no other powers. I guess the switch PM after the role pm superseded this statement? I think it is just poor wording. The mods should clarify this point because it should not be intentionally confusing. > [@brewha](#): > > Waste a vig kill? Batman is as blind as the rest of the town. If he/she kills the runner up in the votes, there’s no guarantee that the person is scum. If batman kills another random town role - like Colby - that’s a waste. If batman kills me, we at least learn things. While Colby ended up town, killing him wasn’t “a waste.” What would be a waste would be using a Lynch to kill Colby Today. By removing Colby, the Vig(presumably) satisfied the Town’s curiosity/suspicion of Colby. The Town was wrong. The Vig was right. What exactly are we going to learn from your death? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/248 "2017-01-19T16:49:09Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I think it is just poor wording. The mods should clarify this point because it should not be intentionally confusing. > > While Colby ended up town, killing him wasn’t “a waste.” What would be a waste would be using a Lynch to kill Colby Today. By removing Colby, the Vig(presumably) satisfied the Town’s curiosity/suspicion of Colby. The Town was wrong. The Vig was right. > > What exactly are we going to learn from your death? Hey all. If you want to be specific about what you want clarified feel free to ask in green. Switches are not powers any more than the ability to turn on a television is a superpower. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/249 "2017-01-19T16:49:55Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > ~snip~ > 4.Two Scum have the power to turn off all switches. One Town has the power to turn on all switches. Let’s hope they are all cooperating. Is there a master switch controlling 3rd party? Who knows? there is a comment up thread that the switches are toggled ( from current position to the other ) which is true? > [@](#): > > ```auto > Maybe I am letting my deep suspicions of **Chronos** cloud my judgement. **jsgoddess** , you say you like the plan. Please tell me what I am missing? > > ``` I want to know the same ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/250 "2017-01-19T16:50:25Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Thanks, Biotop, for the link to this. I thought I had read this somewhere, but couldn’t find it. (If we ever do this again, could we have a mod info thread with all the rules, etc in one place?) > > **@Brewha** , This doesn’t really look consistent with what you told us about your PM. It talks about simple toggles. Could you look at your PM again? Or perhaps post it? > > \*\*@mods > Do we learn about switches found in the possession of dead people? \*\* > > **@Diggit** Votes are in blue. Unvotes are in red. You might want to unvote and revote, if you want to make sure it’s counted. When you’re right, you’re right. **Vote snfaulkner** ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/251 "2017-01-19T16:51:13Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Waste a vig kill? Batman is as blind as the rest of the town. If he/she kills the runner up in the votes, there’s no guarantee that the person is scum. If batman kills another random town role - like Colby - that’s a waste. If batman kills me, we at least learn things. Yes but if the thing we learn is that you were town, then we have one switch that is no longer available to anybody and one switch that is in the hands of someone we don’t know. If their switch is equivalent to yours and they are inimical to town, then they can shut Batman down every night and we lose our vig. I’m becoming less and less comfortable with this with every post. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/252 "2017-01-19T16:57:08Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > what? think this through , If you are a switcher you have asked questions about the mechanic.so you know more about it > But the proposed plan is for you to leave your switch alone ( isn’t it?) > Not to switch anything off? I see now you claim it is AUBatman switch only- gotcha [cue Emily Litella] ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/253 "2017-01-19T16:58:16Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Maybe I am letting my deep suspicions of \*\*Chronos \*\*cloud my judgement. **jsgoddess** , you say you like the plan. Please tell me what I am missing? From my POV, the switches are a complete black box until we deliberately try to control them. Even a failure to control them gives some information, though we may not have a complete understanding of all of the possible permutations or all of the possible reasons for any given result (maybe that information will become clearer as we go), we can still see the result itself. Doesn’t knowing THAT something happened get you one step closer to WHY something happened? We know: brewha has claimed a switch brewha has claimed he’ll go along with Chronos’s plan brewha has claimed he will turn the switch to deactivate Batman Batman must try to kill someone if Batman has switches, Batman’s kill power can be turned off if Batman’s kill power is turned off, Batman will not kill anyone with the kill power if brewha ends up dead, we will know his orientation We could learn: if brewha ends up dead, we may learn if he had a switch (this is one that we can’t be sure of, I think, unless I missed something in the rules) if brewha ends up dead and ends up Town as he claimed, we can think it’s likely he was telling the truth about the switch and did the thing he claimed he would do with the switch if brewha ends up dead and is not Town, we can think it’s likely he was not telling the truth about the switch and/or did not do the thing he claimed he would do with the switch alive or dead, we would have additional information about something, since the one thing we know is that Batman must try to kill someone depending on the number and/or type of deaths, we might learn a great deal as a Town power, Batman could at some point reveal whether the attempt was made to kill brewha, which would give additional information (I do not suggest Batman claim any time soon) The information may not be extensive at first (though I think it could snowball), but since brewha has already claimed the switch, what does the plan harm? I’m happy to reconsider if we think there is a big potential for harm, say in limiting the vig. I do see how it limits the vig. I don’t tend to think of mandatory vigs as an enormous benefit to Town, but I’m persuadable. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/254 "2017-01-19T17:00:48Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > What good is justifying a vote, if no one will see it until the day after, only through a response to a cut and paste repost of the body of text of said justification. … It’s almost as if I’m not playing. the post of which you speak I got lost thinking the quote tags were borked - You appeared to be talking to yourself at one point-- I will revisit it when I catch up here ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/255 "2017-01-19T17:03:52Z")
> [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/451): > > Good catch, Chronos! I totally missed the point about “some players will receive an additional PM” re: switches. > [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/439): > > Well since you asked, my job allows me many boring hours in front of the computer doing nothing but surfing the net. So I’m essentially able to play a major fraction of 8hrs a day while at work. And I don’t have much of a social life that prevents me from playing on my phone. So essentially, the only times I’m NOT able to play are when I’m asleep or driving. There are exceptions from time to time, of course. > [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/287): > > A millerbomb, if you will… > [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/182): > > In regard to **Colby’s** apparent slip, I’ll wait until he explains what he meant. > > Also, I strongly suggest that everyone read the Night 0 thread. It was not just fluff, there was also discussion about the setup. Also, toward the end, people were posting with knowledge of their roles. > [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/75): > > Multiple tabs eases this process. For me. By the way, these quotes (most of which I spoilered to not clutter the thread) confirm my notion that **snfaulkner** is up to no good. Most of his participation has been either fluff or cozying up to other players ( **Chronos** , for instance). To me, this kind of behavior is a clear marker for scummi(sp?)hood ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/256 "2017-01-19T17:04:27Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > When you’re right, you’re right. > > **]Vote snfaulkner]** Not really following the reason for this vote from the posted quote bits can you assist? ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/257 "2017-01-19T17:05:46Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Waste a vig kill? Batman is as blind as the rest of the town. If he/she kills the runner up in the votes, there’s no guarantee that the person is scum. If batman kills another random town role - like Colby - that’s a waste. If batman kills me, we at least learn things. What do we learn? We learn if you were town or scum and thus whether you were likely to be telling the truth or not. Or we learn nothing because you don’t die for any number of reasons (up to and including the vig just choosing not to target you) I would argue that a vig of the lynch runner up is much more useful. Colby being (presumably) vigged last night allowed us to go on today without talking about whether he slipped and gives us the colby wagon to analyse. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/258 "2017-01-19T17:05:52Z")
Dammit, 1.3 million posts in the time it took me to compose mine. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/259 "2017-01-19T17:27:58Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Dammit, 1.3 million posts in the time it took me to compose mine. _sigh_ Frustrating, isn’t it? You are right about one thing. The cat is already out of the bag regarding **brewha**. If it is a false claim I suspect we’ll learn that soon enough.I feel pretty sure it is not a false claim. I am not seeing what sort of information might “snowball” from that claim and a Batman manipulation to kill **brewha**. I will think about it some more while I am at work. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/260 "2017-01-19T17:28:15Z")
I don’t really see what we get out of the Batman switch scheme. If Brewha dies, then we know that someone else has the switch, and that it is someone who was ok (actively or passively) with brewha dying. We don’t know if someone used a master switch or not. We know that scum probably watched the death, meaning the scum now knows who our Vig is. If brewha doesn’t die, then scum still knows who our Vig is, and the other switch is in the hands of someone who doesn’t care to flip the switch (whether it’s an on switch or a toggle, we still don’t know.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=14)