# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![BillMC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@BillMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillMC)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/361 "2017-01-20T01:22:38Z")
coming back to this > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > The last two posts kind of seal the deal for me. Here we have a low-level poster, fairly fluffy but with occasional analysis, who somehow manages to be self-contradictory in just a handful of posts. He keeps bringing up how Colby acted in Dante’s game (but not what it actually meant, for those of us who didn’t play). He doesn’t vote for Colby, though, even though he FOSes him early, and then in his last post says his gut instinct is Scum. In post 1000 he says he doesn’t see the case on ToeJam or Angel, and then votes ToeJam in 1152 based on logic in a post that was made well before his post 1000, when he said he didn’t see a case on ToeJam. And all this despite saying that he thought someone else who he never actually voted for was Scum. Well others have already mentioned the game I was referring to. As I said, I found his turn of phrase and behaviour odd. And as I also said, I was not going to be back online till after day end - so rather than placing a vote where it would make no difference, I chose between the cases on the two lynch leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/362 "2017-01-20T01:25:37Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Btw my second question wasn’t “why would you” it was just “would you”. But answered anyway I think, thanks 🙂 \*\* I did see that and I guess my answer would be, “we might”. NAF and I can not consult on every decision/pm we send. Doing our best to moderate to the best of our ability.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/363 "2017-01-20T01:50:12Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > \*\*Everyone’s switches, if you have a switch, works the same way. Everything we have told anyone about switches has been accurate. We checked. There are no contradictions. \*\*. > > Sorry if you all find this confusing but this is the last I want to talk about this. I don’t see what is so hard about explaining how the switches are meant to work. The problem with using a previously seen game mechanic is that some have seen it and others have not. What’s worse is when using a game mechanic that is similar to but _substantively different_ than the previously seen mechanic. If it is some sort of super secret cool thing that you don’t want to ‘ruin,’ well, that ship has sailed. I feel that this game is imploding under its own weight. The mods seem overworked and the players are confused over what should be a simple thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/364 "2017-01-20T01:52:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **BillMC** : > > I’d agree with this - tho in quite a few games any suggestion of suspicion without a vote has been seen as being scummy. Expressing suspicion without voting for _anyone_ is definitely scummy. But it’d be quite remarkable, in a game this size, for someone to only suspect one person, and we can only vote for one. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/365 "2017-01-20T01:53:03Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > \*\*Everyone’s switches, if you have a switch, works the same way. Everything we have told anyone about switches has been accurate. We checked. There are no contradictions. \*\*. > > Sorry if you all find this confusing but this is the last I want to talk about this. Okay, this means that I completely do not understand the switches. I thought that brewha’s PM meant something different than apparently it does (that off meant off, not toggle), which means that I thought we would have more information than we actually would. Being wrong is exhausting. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/366 "2017-01-20T01:54:16Z")
**I also have a switch. It controls a scum power.** I am claiming this because my switch seems to differ from **brewha’s**. Here is mine: > [@](#): > > Knock knock knock > > There is someone at the door. It’s a delivery man! Sign here please. Thank you. > > You open up your package. > > Inside is a box with a label. The label says [scumrole redacted] switch. What does it do? > > The switch is currently in the on position. You can toggle it if you like each Night. The next Night it will reset itself. Oh and there is also a note that there is another one of these out there. Huh. They may effect each other. > > Have fun with your gift Notice that mine is specified as a toggle. But brewha’s can be switched to OFF. This certainly looks to contradict the mod statement that all switches are the same and that all wording is correct. So I don’t know what to think. I checked with the mods again, and got confirmation that all switches work the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/367 "2017-01-20T01:56:25Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Yes, it was the bad fluff/content ratio. There’s something fishy about this. You have nothing more? So I post a lot of fluff, and I’m not insightful? Go back, read my posts, find something scummy! I’m sure you can!😛 Note taken. FOS Sunny Daze. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/368 "2017-01-20T01:59:19Z")
Oh, and I don’t think it’s useful to speculate precisely why the Vig chose **Colby** over **ToeJam**. Maybe he was personally more suspicious of **Colby**. Maybe he thought that the mods would take care of **ToeJam**. Maybe he flipped a coin. Personally, my Vig strategy is to put a bunch of names in a hat, one for each not-quite-modkillable lurker, one for the second-place vote-getter, and one for the top suspect of any person I have reason to trust, and then pick one of those names out (a person can have their name in more than once, if they fit multiple categories). Like I said before, the Vig should not be predictable, or they yield too much power to the Scum. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/369 "2017-01-20T02:02:28Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I used the term “one post wonder” ? 😕:eek: > > Nope. No new thoughts… no you didn’t, I did ----post 811 D1 you responded to it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19916940&postcount=811) I was just wondering if you had followed up in your thoughts ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/370 "2017-01-20T02:07:27Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > ~snip~ > > FOS Pleonast. But… > Could you please explain this to me? Maybe I’m dimwitted but I don’t understand you. If you would be so kind to provide links or quotes, maybe put some emphasis here and there… If it isn’t to much of a bother. > > ☹ I tried to track \*\* Pleo \*\*on this subject and now I can’t easily find it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/371 "2017-01-20T02:08:25Z")
On thinking about it… I’m not too worried about the difference in wording of the switches. I would be extremely surprised if either Scum team had no switches at all, which means that if all switches had the same wording, then Scum would have access to that genuine wording. There’s no reason why anyone would falsify the wording. So, reductio ad absurdem, it follows that **Captain Klutz** and **brewha** (or possibly their teammates, if Scum) both genuinely received switch messages which genuinely differed in their wording. And differences in wording aren’t too surprising, after all: We’ve got three mods, and they had a lot of PMs to send, so I imagine that they split up the task between them. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/372 "2017-01-20T02:09:12Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > \*\*Sunny, \*\* I assume you are voting for **Plumpudding** based on some reasoning you have previously outlined; could you recap or link to your reasoning? Offhand the only thing I remember him getting flak for was having a bad fluff/content ratio, which certainly is true. Is there more? ditto asking for more info ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/373 "2017-01-20T02:23:24Z")
So, I think the **Brewha** idea _could_ be okay in theory, _if_ we could guarantee everything would go exactly as planned. But as it stands, I don’t see how it would be productive, and could be downright harmful to Town. First off, I don’t want scum to know who the Vig is targeting. That sounds like a great way to find out who the Vig _is_. You know who wants either control of or the death of the Vig? Scum, obviously. Let’s not help them out. Additionally, I find it pretty interesting that **brewha** and **klutz** seem to have switches with contradictory information, and the mods have assured us that all switches work the same way. I’m tending toward buying **Klutz** as being a legitimate switch holder; otherwise he’d be putting his neck on the line for very little gain. On the other hand, given my point above about finding the Vig, without trading any team members for it, I can see the scum motivation for **Brewha** ’s possible gambit. The more I talk myself through it, the more I lean toward “scum gambit”. **vote Brewha** ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/374 "2017-01-20T02:23:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > **I also have a switch. It controls a scum power.** > > I am claiming this because my switch seems to differ from **brewha’s**. Here is mine: > > Notice that mine is specified as a toggle. But brewha’s can be switched to OFF. This certainly looks to contradict the mod statement that all switches are the same and that all wording is correct. So I don’t know what to think. I checked with the mods again, and got confirmation that all switches work the same way. Now I understand your interest in my switch - since you are a switch holder. If you google the definition of toggle as it applies here, it simply means to change from one state to another. So, if your switch is default to off, toggling it will turn it on. But it does seem odd that our switch pms are so drastically different. You’d think it’d be more of a template with the role and default switch positions changing for the specific switch holders. Oh, and I understand that those of you that have no switching powers grow weary of switch discussion. I’m not going to spend any time telling the doc who to protect or the investigator who to target. But, I think it’s an important part of the game and worthy of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/375 "2017-01-20T02:30:25Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > So, I think the **Brewha** idea _could_ be okay in theory, _if_ we could guarantee everything would go exactly as planned. But as it stands, I don’t see how it would be productive, and could be downright harmful to Town. First off, I don’t want scum to know who the Vig is targeting. That sounds like a great way to find out who the Vig _is_. You know who wants either control of or the death of the Vig? Scum, obviously. Let’s not help them out. > > Additionally, I find it pretty interesting that **brewha** and **klutz** seem to have switches with contradictory information, and the mods have assured us that all switches work the same way. I’m tending toward buying **Klutz** as being a legitimate switch holder; otherwise he’d be putting his neck on the line for very little gain. On the other hand, given my point above about finding the Vig, without trading any team members for it, I can see the scum motivation for **Brewha** ’s possible gambit. > > The more I talk myself through it, the more I lean toward “scum gambit”. > > **vote Brewha** I honestly believe that a vigilante that has to kill is a liability to the town. Batman is killing blindly and right now - just based on the population - he’s more likely to kill town. If the game was closer and the scum were desperate to find the vig, I could see how my claim could be viewed as scum. But, right now? that is some very weak scum motivation. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/376 "2017-01-20T02:37:28Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > I honestly believe that a vigilante that has to kill is a liability to the town. Batman is killing blindly and right now - just based on the population - he’s more likely to kill town. > > If the game was closer and the scum were desperate to find the vig, I could see how my claim could be viewed as scum. But, right now? that is some very weak scum motivation. I have rule of thumb in life (and recently in Mafia): I don’t believe anyone under scrutiny who says “honestly”. It’s served me well enough so far. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/377 "2017-01-20T02:38:29Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Now I understand your interest in my switch - since you are a switch holder. If you google the definition of toggle as it applies here, it simply means to change from one state to another. > > So, if your switch is default to off, toggling it will turn it on. > > But it does seem odd that our switch pms are so drastically different. You’d think it’d be more of a template with the role and default switch positions changing for the specific switch holders. > Oh, and I understand that those of you that have no switching powers grow weary of switch discussion. I’m not going to spend any time telling the doc who to protect or the investigator who to target. But, I think it’s an important part of the game and worthy of discussion. OK so I have a switch too. My role pm is similar in wording as the thing that bothers me is that brewhas and my own is that we know what switch we have. The other guys says scum power redacted it seems unfair that he doesn’t know what his switch controls. Now if he redacted his own control switch why would he hide that. I am tempted to stick a huge FOS on Chrono. I didn’t post my pm because I don’t think it’s wise to reveal all of our switchers and what switches they control. Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/378 "2017-01-20T02:39:16Z")
OOG: Between work and letting dogs out and in and out and back in and feeding everyone…none of these stomachs with feet want to give me a spare minute today! SO on the Brewha/Batman debate, I’ve read all the points brought up for and against, and I just can’t see it…well…working out for any benefit to town and has a good chance to out Batman to scum. There are just too many moving parts to coordinate. It’s like tossing a bunch of gears into a bucket, shaking it around and expecting to get a fine crafted watch out of it. I just don’t think there is any way to make a plan to the level of precision needed being dependent on people with the switches to play or not play them correctly/honestly or even if the people necessary to put it all together are even participating. Toss in malicious intent with the scum factions’ switch controllers and the players who can turn all of them off or all on…I just don’t think that we can pull it off. I think Batman should kill whoever he thinks is scum. Because Brewha brought all this up unprovoked, I’m leaning him toward town. I don’t want to kill anybody who is in the more likely town column. I still don’t have any strong leanings for a vote, but I’m off work this weekend (YAY!) and I can dig in. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/379 "2017-01-20T02:39:49Z")
Neta I will if enough players ask me to post mine Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/380 "2017-01-20T02:40:13Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > no you didn’t, I did ----post 811 D1 you responded to it [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19916940&postcount=811) > > I was just wondering if you had followed up in your thoughts Would you believe I forgot all about that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=20)