# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/401 "2017-01-20T03:35:52Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Unless they are switched off, I imagine. > [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > > [@nesta](#): > > > > The Vig is compulsory, so they _have_ to kill every night. > > Okay, I think that the vig should be unfettered in his kill attempt :smack: Sorry, I was in a hurry to get out the door and completely missed the context of your statement. It’s obvious that’s what you meant. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > Maybe I misread and/or misspoke something somewhere, but here is how they worked last game (quoted from the rules thread of that game): > > So each role had two switches. One controlled by a scum, the other the SK. At the beginning of the day, all switches are reset to ON. Then at night, if no switch is thrown, the power is ON. if one switch is thrown the power is OFF, if both are thrown, the power is back ON again. I think it is reasonable to assume this is the same mechanic in this game. We’re in agreement then that this is probably how it works. When I think of switches in “series” I think in the electrical sense, where either switch being off will cause the power not to flow. Just a confusion in terminology then. > [@brewha](#): > > I don’t think anyone -aside from the mods - really knows how the switches work. Agreed. They haven’t clarified, so it could be anything to nothing. I think it’s worth making sure those that have a switch aren’t flipping it without an idea of what the most likely result will be based on the previous game with this mechanic. > [@brewha](#): > > I am well aware of the possibilities, though. Good enough. I didn’t mean to lecture you. > [@brewha](#): > > > [@nesta](#): > > > > **brewha** , I hope announcing what you are going to do with the switch is WIFOM. If you do intend to stick with flipping the switch Tonight, and scum has the other switch, you are effectively giving control of whether the Vig can kill to scum. Giving any extra control to scum is a bad idea. > > And acknowledging that my intention was WIFOM would have what effect then? Your role, play it how you want. If you were trying to set a WIFOM trap then good on ya. You did seem a little confused about the switches and agreed to go along with **Chronos’s** bad plan, and then doubled down that you were flipping your switch. I think you’re probably town, so I thought I was helping by throwing in a little WIFOM of my own. You acknowledging the WIFOM isn’t important once I’d pointed it out. I hope I didn’t ruin your trap. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/402 "2017-01-20T03:37:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > I did the redacting, I do know what it controls. > > Why would I hide that? Because scum would benefit more than town from that knowledge. > > If you do post your switch PM, I suggest redacting the power, as I did. > > As for wording, the mods have told me “The PMs say the same thing with different words. Read them again.” I can’t agree that they say the same thing: “Each Night, it begins in the “on” position and you may flip it to “off” or leave it alone” is an off switch, not a toggle. However, we now know that they are meant to be the same. This is the post I meant to quote just a few minutes ago. The fact that you told us it was a scum power at all is a screaming ping to me. Come morning I will most likely be voting for you. Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/403 "2017-01-20T03:39:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > **I also have a switch. It controls a scum power.** > > I am claiming this because my switch seems to differ from **brewha’s**. Here is mine: > > Notice that mine is specified as a toggle. But brewha’s can be switched to OFF. This certainly looks to contradict the mod statement that all switches are the same and that all wording is correct. So I don’t know what to think. I checked with the mods again, and got confirmation that all switches work the same way. the word toggle is used in your version. but you are also told that it resets to ON each Night= really all you can do it turn it Off or leave it on. right? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/404 "2017-01-20T03:41:48Z")
> [@bufftabby](#): > > So, I think the **Brewha** idea _could_ be okay in theory, _if_ we could guarantee everything would go exactly as planned. But as it stands, I don’t see how it would be productive, and could be downright harmful to Town. First off, I don’t want scum to know who the Vig is targeting. That sounds like a great way to find out who the Vig _is_. You know who wants either control of or the death of the Vig? Scum, obviously. Let’s not help them out. > > Additionally, I find it pretty interesting that **brewha** and **klutz** seem to have switches with contradictory information, and the mods have assured us that all switches work the same way. I’m tending toward buying **Klutz** as being a legitimate switch holder; otherwise he’d be putting his neck on the line for very little gain. On the other hand, given my point above about finding the Vig, without trading any team members for it, I can see the scum motivation for **Brewha** ’s possible gambit. > > The more I talk myself through it, the more I lean toward “scum gambit”. > > **vote Brewha** So, you think that **brewha** stating that he had a Vigilante switch constituted some sort of weird gambit to find the Vig? In this hypothetical of yours, did **brewha** know that I was going to suggest that the Vig target him? That only makes sense if we’re both Scum teammates, which means that this hypothetical gambit would be a trade of at least one and possibly two Scum for identifying one Town power role (and one who may actually be a net liability to Town, at that). Or did you get mixed up, and think that **brewha** suggested the plan himself? In that case, you probably meant to be suspicious of me. But that’s why I said I was brainstorming: I saw new information, spent about two minutes coming up with an idea based on that information, couldn’t tell if the idea would work or not, and so opened it up for discussion. The result of which discussion seems to be that, due to the Consigliere/Omega’s watching power, the plan has a high chance of outing the Vig, which is an angle that I didn’t think of in the two minutes before I posted. Is not thinking of every possible power interaction, in a game this complicated, Scummy? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/405 "2017-01-20T03:45:12Z")
> [@Crys75](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I did the redacting, I do know what it controls. > > > > Why would I hide that? Because scum would benefit more than town from that knowledge. > > > > If you do post your switch PM, I suggest redacting the power, as I did. > > > > As for wording, the mods have told me “The PMs say the same thing with different words. Read them again.” I can’t agree that they say the same thing: “Each Night, it begins in the “on” position and you may flip it to “off” or leave it alone” is an off switch, not a toggle. However, we now know that they are meant to be the same. > > This is the post I meant to quote just a few minutes ago. The fact that you told us it was a scum power at all is a screaming ping to me. Come morning I will most likely be voting for you. I don’t understand why having control over a scum power pings you. Can you expand? Note that I have already explained why I redacted it. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/406 "2017-01-20T03:45:40Z")
> [@Crys75](#): > > OK so I have a switch too. My role pm is similar in wording as the thing that bothers me is that brewhas and my own is that we know what switch we have. The other guys says scum power redacted it seems unfair that he doesn’t know what his switch controls. Now if he redacted his own control switch why would he hide that. I am tempted to stick a huge FOS on Chrono. I didn’t post my pm because I don’t think it’s wise to reveal all of our switchers and what switches they control. > > Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk and you didn’t read it as the poster redacted the target not the Mods? I am tired and grumpy but your comment is just… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/407 "2017-01-20T03:45:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Crys75** : > > This is the post I meant to quote just a few minutes ago. The fact that you told us it was a scum power at all is a screaming ping to me. Come morning I will most likely be voting for you. All I can say to this is, huh? What’s pinging you about that? Do you think that the Scum have the switches which control their own powers, or something? That would make no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/408 "2017-01-20T03:47:35Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Would you believe I forgot all about that? Yes I would. so whatcha think now? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/409 "2017-01-20T03:50:23Z")
Apologies for the absence. I did something even [more geeky](http://www.mit.edu/~puzzle/) last weekend, and have been trying to catch up ever since. > [@raventhief](#): > > ToeJam, in D1, made the remark that he “posts a lot” yet he only had 5 posts all Day. He drew a lot of heat for posts from N0, and ended up 2nd in line, votes-wise. I understand the urge to lynch the lurker, but given said difficulty in keeping pace with this game, I’m going to consider extended absences a nul tell. > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Crappy start. > > It’s possible that all of the forerunners for lynch the Day before were Town, but I feel it’s also very likely that at least one was scum…that would mean **ToeJam** is it. This is really weak logic. No reason any leading candidate had to be scum. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I didn’t comment on your vote for Colby, to be clear. I didn’t have a problem with it. Yes, he turned out to be Town, but I thought the case on him was reasonable and had more than one bit of evidence for it. He said something weird, then reacted weirdly when called on it. I’m with Jsgoddess here. Meta information is fine, but I think anyone with a deliberately difficult style deserves more scrutiny. It is too easy for I’ll accept a town Colby plays a certain way, but a scum Colby plays that way too. > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I also don’t like it. The lynch is a necessary evil at the start of the game. We’re firing into a crowd of many more Townies than Scum, and for the most part, we don’t know where to point the gun yet. No-lynching is a bad idea here at the beginning, because we’ll never start to get information otherwise, but we open ourselves up to too much scum manipulation when we start trying to get second-place cases in. > > Now that’s my analysis based on single scum team games. I’m not sure if it’s less true here, because the all the scum can’t coordinate together. But I think it’s still mostly true. Disagree. Any town controlled kill is a plus. Sure there are more town members than scum, but that also means a scum death is worth more than a town death. The only downside is it will be easier for scum to influence a 2nd lynch with the lower threshold. I think Sachertorte’s plan requires too much consensus to worth, but I’m open to allowing individuals we strongly believe are town to choose the 2nd death. Brewha would be my choice for most likely to be town. > [@raventhief](#): > > The game is daunting, and i also think it has lost a bit of the shine due to Malware redirects. Yeah. In retrospect, I think we would have been better off splitting in two and having more manageable games. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/410 "2017-01-20T03:51:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All I can say to this is, huh? What’s pinging you about that? Do you think that the Scum have the switches which control their own powers, or something? That would make no sense at all. I _think_ she thinks that by putting [_scum_role redacted], instead of just [role redacted], pings of scum trying to pretend to be town. As in the role redacted might not be a scumrole at all. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/411 "2017-01-20T03:53:49Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > the word toggle is used in your version. but you are also told that it resets to ON each Night= really all you can do it turn it Off or leave it on. right? It is called toggle, it is currently ON, all I can do is toggle it (not to ON or OFF, just toggle). There is another just like it and they may affect each other. So 2 toggle switches. Makes perfect sense as a toggle. So no, I don’t just switch it off. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/412 "2017-01-20T03:55:46Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Yes I would. > > so whatcha think now? Frankly, I see putting the brakes on a misinformed (lacking towns tempo time testimony) multilynch as having more of a priority than voting for two people that I still reserve the right to vote for at a later point. The former, possibly, deals with bad votes on a multiple of two, the latter is just two possible bad votes. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/413 "2017-01-20T03:57:04Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Apologies for the absence. I did something even [more geeky](http://www.mit.edu/~puzzle/) last weekend, and have been trying to catch up ever since. That looks awesome! > [@](#): > > Yeah. In retrospect, I think we would have been better off splitting in two and having more manageable games. HOGWASH! I enjoy the different challenges of the Yuuugeness! ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/414 "2017-01-20T03:57:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Ghostery browser on Android. No more redirects. I can report that Ghostery does not block the malware redirects, unless there’s some setting I need to change. Bah. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/415 "2017-01-20T03:58:17Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Frankly, I see putting the brakes on a misinformed (lacking towns tempo time testimony) multilynch as having more of a priority than voting for two people that I still reserve the right to vote for at a later point. The former, possibly, deals with bad votes on a multiple of two, the latter is just two possible bad votes. Also HOGWASH! Warp 9 on the multilynches, number 1. Make it so! ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/416 "2017-01-20T03:58:50Z")
> [@Crys75](#): > > Meh there is more than one mod running the game but I think putting redacted scum power makes you more of a target…Unless you don’t need to care… Go home you are loaded- this post sounds disconnected and you may explain it tomorrow ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/417 "2017-01-20T04:09:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, you think that **brewha** stating that he had a Vigilante switch constituted some sort of weird gambit to find the Vig? In this hypothetical of yours, did **brewha** know that I was going to suggest that the Vig target him? That only makes sense if we’re both Scum teammates, which means that this hypothetical gambit would be a trade of at least one and possibly two Scum for identifying one Town power role (and one who may actually be a net liability to Town, at that). > > Or did you get mixed up, and think that **brewha** suggested the plan himself? In that case, you probably meant to be suspicious of me. But that’s why I said I was brainstorming: I saw new information, spent about two minutes coming up with an idea based on that information, couldn’t tell if the idea would work or not, and so opened it up for discussion. The result of which discussion seems to be that, due to the Consigliere/Omega’s watching power, the plan has a high chance of outing the Vig, which is an angle that I didn’t think of in the two minutes before I posted. Is not thinking of every possible power interaction, in a game this complicated, Scummy? You are correct, I did think **Brewha** had suggested it himself. Your post directly followed his, but that’s…not the same thing. **unvote Brewha** You two may still be colluding as scum-mates here, but no vote-worthy evidence points to that. My theory made a lot more sense when I thought **Brewha** was the originator of the plan. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/418 "2017-01-20T04:12:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > It is called toggle, it is currently ON, all I can do is toggle it (not to ON or OFF, just toggle). There is another just like it and they may affect each other. So 2 toggle switches. Makes perfect sense as a toggle. > > So no, I don’t just switch it off. Maha clarified it end of last page ( the origional notes were misleading ) I post as I read so most of my switch posts after MAHA’s are M00T now ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/419 "2017-01-20T04:17:42Z")
Fair warning, I will be playing exclusively on my phone until about Dawn of Day Three. I don’t anticipate problems keeping up, but I will be posting pretty pithily. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/420 "2017-01-20T04:27:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Third parties that benefit Town? I know Survivor would be able to stand with either side, an I am sure there are a few more that I am unaware of…but what 3P are you thinking of? ?? The post I quoted was clearly about the vig having good odds of hitting scum… I was saying if you add 3rd party roles into the equation the odds are even better of not hitting town. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=22)