# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/441 "2017-01-20T06:19:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Some posters have had some success scumhunting by finding posters who are generically ‘helpful’, posting vote counts, answering questions about standard practices, lingo and roles and so on so they develop a townie sheen over a scummy interior. > > . Yes… but you don’t identify them by their townie sheen… you identify them by their scummy interior. If you have 9 sheep and 1 wolf in a sheepskin… do you identify the wolf by the sheepskin? No, you identify it by the blood on its teeth and it’s long hairy snout and the fact that you now have 8 sheep. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/442 "2017-01-20T06:21:01Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Yes… but you don’t identify them by their townie sheen… you identify them by their scummy interior. If you have 9 sheep and 1 wolf in a sheepskin… do you identify the wolf by the sheepskin? No, you identify it by the blood on its teeth and it’s long hairy snout and the fact that you now have 8 sheep. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Also from the many crates of Acme deliveries scattered about with their name on it. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/443 "2017-01-20T06:22:23Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > I don’t think we should rely on color to tell us any definitive information on who killed who. . I beg to differ… if the mods are providing specific details in the color they are either clues or the mods are intentionally misleading us… that would border on Gastard to me. I don’t think this game is Gastard… it being so large is complicated enough. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/444 "2017-01-20T06:26:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, and I don’t think it’s useful to speculate precisely why the Vig chose **Colby** over **ToeJam**. Maybe he was personally more suspicious of **Colby**. Maybe he thought that the mods would take care of **ToeJam**. Maybe he flipped a coin. Another possibility is that since “shoot the second highest vote-getter” is a common strategy, the vig might have figured that a scum watcher could be hanging around ToeJam. > [@brewha](#): > > I honestly believe that a vigilante that has to kill is a liability to the town. Batman is killing blindly and right now - just based on the population - he’s more likely to kill town. So will lynches, but we still do them. The difference is while the vote record produces additional information, it is significantly influenced by scum, which can produce a lot of noise making it hard to find the signal. The Vig kill is purely townie influenced. The information is less, but the motive behind it is unquestionable. (Barring redirects, but redirects and vigilantes are a bad combination. Particularly with compulsory vigs. It’s probably a safe assumption that the mods haven’t put any third party redirectors in the game.) This game has a large number of people. Many have not been contributing for whatever reason. The scum have shown they are currently targeting the loud. The Day 1 lynch was between two of the louds and a third who was prolific Night 0 and then disappeared. Day 1 lynches almost always go to the loud, because there’s no other information out there. And while later Days may hit quieter posters, lynching the quiet doesn’t leave as much info to examine. It ultimately stifles discussion. And scum are frequently willing to bus the absent players on their team because they’re not contributing anyway, so why not go for some town cred and get something out of it? And with a lot of quiet posters, scum can actively hide in that pool all the while bussing those who are quiet from non-participation. But the vig doesn’t have to worry about that. The vig can keep everyone honest by shooting into any pool the vig thinks is worth going into, whether it be the next in lines for lynch, the low volume posters, or the people the vig thinks is scummy. With the vig, the scum have no control over whether or not they die. And far be it from me to tell the vig how to do their job, but with the scum targeting the loud right now, I think the vig should start narrowing the pool of the quieter ones. Scum tend to distribute themselves fairly evenly but tilted towards the bottom end of the frequency spectrum. And right now their narrowing the higher end of that spectrum, which increases the chance they’re hiding out on the lower end. Of course, with one of the vig switches now exposed, if scum control the other one, a death of Brewha will pretty much nerf the vig for the rest of the game. This is a huge advantage for scum. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/445 "2017-01-20T06:27:27Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I beg to differ… if the mods are providing specific details in the color they are either clues or the mods are intentionally misleading us… that would border on Gastard to me. I don’t think this game is Gastard… it being so large is complicated enough. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk I’m in between. They could be clues, so we should consider them, but they could also just be building a mood. Which is not the same as intentional misleading, in my book. I don’t think we have enough info yet to really discount the color completely. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/446 "2017-01-20T06:31:21Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I beg to differ… if the mods are providing specific details in the color they are either clues or the mods are intentionally misleading us… that would border on Gastard to me. I don’t think this game is Gastard… it being so large is complicated enough. I’m pretty sure the mods mentioned in either the sign-up thread or Night 0 that the color is one big bag of WIFOM. They said–and I’m paraphrasing here–that there will probably be a mix of genuine clues, intentional misleads, unintentional misleads, and irrelevancies. So I wouldn’t read too much into the color if I were you. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/447 "2017-01-20T06:35:31Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Why **Plumpudding**? > > 1. Burby picked him on Day 1. I initially dismissed it as an attempt to divert attention from Colby, but I’m inclined to take another look knowing SP’s role. > 2. **Plum** posts a lot. As I run back through it, I’m not finding a lot of substance. I’m reading this as a tell. He gets my vote for our second lynch. Huh? Why would Burbs role have anything to do with their D1 vote? Even if you meant we now know Burb to be town, that just means he didn’t know anyone else’s alignment. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/448 "2017-01-20T06:54:09Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > This is really weak logic. No reason any leading candidate had to be scum. You’re right. It’s a very weak vote based on weak logic. But better than not having any vote at all come end of Day, like I had yesterDay. I’ll be happy to change it once I have a better person to vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/449 "2017-01-20T06:54:47Z")
SP was the detective. He could investigate and get a result once per Day (per the roles doc). He didn’t claim, but he may have had information on Plumpudding. Now, I don’t know if once per Day means at noon, at Dawn, or what, (because you probably missed the part where I was introduced as the noob in the group), but that is what my statement about SP’s role causing me to take another look at PP meant. While we’re on the topic, SP did a long analysis post on most of the posts of PP on D1 which found a high fluff to content ratio. Included, but spoilered for length. Also, not snipped, so there is extraneous content. > [@Mafia Reunion - Day One](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-one/776577/541): > > The “other top suspect”? By whose reckoning is **Johnny Bravo** the “other top suspect”? the vote count as of **septimus** ’ post: > > Colby - 9 > septimus - 6 > ToeJam - 3 > Lakai 3 > Normal - 2 > Angel - 2 > 7 people - 1 > > If there’s an “other top suspect” it would be septimus himself (though I suppose that asking for a self-vote is a bit much…). If not him, then \*maybe \*\*\*ToeJam \*\*or **Lakai** …but I fail to see how Johnny Bravo, tied for 7th place with 1 vote, qualifies here as a “top suspect”. > > I have no particular problem with the fact that septimus voted for a ‘non-contender’ here, but his reasoning stinks. > > There was something about this post that bugged me, but I couldn’t figure it out…until I took a good look at \*\*Plumpudding’s \*\*posting history in this game. > 209 comment about Colby > 214 comment about being on vacation > 215 comment about the Patsy role > 342 comments about editing, color, the Patsy…has no suspicions > 344 comment about town mechanics > 358 comment about playstyle > 365 comment about being logged in to the board > 372 comment about page refreshes on the board > 384 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 386 comment about the Patsy > 401 defense against not having voted yet > 408 comment about a previous post > 412 vote for Biotop (for being “chatty”? It’s hard to tell for certain, because he refers to a previous comment by Guiri, but doesn’t link the specific post he is referring to) > 414 comment about the Patsy > 415 continuance of post 414 (I think ) > 422 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 423 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 425 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 426 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 430 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 432 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 435 comment about Investigative roles and the Patsy > 440 off-topic joke post? > 458 joke post > 470 unvote Biotop (understands his (Biotop’s) real-life participation issues) > 472 vote for Prof. Pepperwinkle (for not participating in the conversation) > 473 correction of typo in post 472 > > That’s 27 posts, almost all of which are discussions of mechanics, playstyle, game setup, etc. The only real ‘substantive’ posts are the ones in which he places votes. Interestingly, both votes are based on the player in question posting “fluff” or not participating fully…while Plumpudding himself has basically spent the Day doing exactly that. Also of note is that both votes are one-offs; the players in question are in absolutely no danger whatsoever of being lynched Today. > > In short, Plumpudding has ‘good statistics’ toDay: lost of posts, a couple votes…but nothing with any actual weight. Just like Scum would want to do, so that they ‘look good’ while taking no chances of posting anything that might come back to haunt them later. > > **unvote Colby11** > **vote Plumpudding** > > I still think that Colby is Scum, and I’m suspicious of septimus as well. I’m placing this vote in order to get it on record, but should my potential vote on either Colby or septimus become ‘significant’ near EoD, I will change it. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/450 "2017-01-20T06:58:36Z")
Is there anything we can do to encourage low participation players? I think I understand where they are coming from. Since I went to work this afternoon there have been over 160 posts, many of them detailed reads. I have been following along daily as best I can, but I can understand someone getting a day or two behind and just feeling lost. That’s my guess why it seems several players have just given up. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/451 "2017-01-20T07:05:27Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Is there anything we can do to encourage low participation players? I think I understand where they are coming from. Since I went to work this afternoon there have been over 160 posts, many of them detailed reads. I have been following along daily as best I can, but I can understand someone getting a day or two behind and just feeling lost. That’s my guess why it seems several players have just given up. I’m ok with the mod kill threat for the completely non existent. And the drive by vote parkers for lame reasons scream lazy scum to me (diggetcamara). So unless some major scum revelation, I’m ok with voting in that pool. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/452 "2017-01-20T07:14:57Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Lest I incur your fervor over you previous ““issue”” with my postings ::: > > * * * > > Has there ever been an instance where Town has called themselves team? How can this happen, given the fundamental and immutable set-up of Mafia? I’d wager to say town not knowing they are a team, is THE defining attribute of Mafia. “Given” roles such as a cop and a doctor would even come after that. > > I’m saying I can’t conceive how it would be natural to even embrace the thought of “team” if you are town. Sure, you could, I guess, have a “team” of Masons of any stripe, but again, that comes from knowing the complete set, if you will. If we don’t know all that (who that) we are, we can never call us a team. > > And I think it even goes one step further. > > Most games, a vast majority of players are vanilla town. They don’t even get to know … Anything. In fact, most games, a vanilla town role goes so far as to state “just you and your abilities” or some variation thereof. … Most town players are further segregated than even just being a randomized group of people, some with extra abilities than others. … It does matter that some players are dealt extra cards than others… Town doesn’t think as a team, in any sense, and most town players (vanillas) are subtly encouraged not to think of “team” at all. > > Finally, if we are to find Scum (or indeed any non-town) toDay, that is on a Day One, Any Day one… Wouldn’t it need to follow that we do so due to a “Big” slip? One that is obvious? > > * * * > > I’m voting for Meeko because he took his vote off me despite being apparently quite confident that I’m scum, and admitted at the time that it was a weak move. > **You are voting me, because I’m not voting you.** 😕 > > I’ve seen this before. I’m not going to help you not sell your house, Squidward. 😃 Ok… I think I can parse you here Meeko… a rare event for me… so I’m gonna reply with my own thoughts on these matters. Town is a team. It’s a team that is made up of players who don’t know who is on their team, but it is still a team. We win together or lose together. Scum having to find each other is a common enough mechanic that you must have seen it by now right? In that situation are they not still a team? The problem is that town don’t think about the fact that essentially everyone is on our team… we just have a few double agents to weed out. In end game town is in a much stronger position if they have multiple confirmed or considered town that can be trusted and so town can follow their lead and get a consensus and vote block going. It’s just as important for us to flesh out our teammates as it is for us to hunt does our enemies. In my experience, vanilla townies are crucial to towns victory… cops, docs, vigs… they are powerful to have… but they have to play the game just a little different than nillas… they have to consider how to use their abilities and look at the players as potential allies and enemies differently than nilla do. They have to… they need to make quick broad decisions and leans… a vanilla town is under no pressure other than to vote the person they are most suspicious of… so their focus is naturally going to be on that… because of that, they tend to dig deeper and care more about the vote. All of that got a little off topic… stop saying town isn’t a team and start figuring out how to best figure out who isn’t part of the team. What you said in the post above isn’t looking for scum… it’s spouting anti-town propaganda. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/453 "2017-01-20T07:23:15Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > So, what are the chances that **Brewha** is a 3P who wins if he’s NK’d? Who cares about the chances… it would be a brilliant victory and the game would be over… this game is punishment… it’s way too much to keep up with. I mean… I’m replying to a post that is over 20 pages back I believe… we should be praying you’re right. But I highly doubt it… too easy to meet the wincon early game. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/454 "2017-01-20T07:25:55Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Who cares about the chances… it would be a brilliant victory and the game would be over… this game is punishment… it’s way too much to keep up with. I mean… I’m replying to a post that is over 20 pages back I believe… we should be praying you’re right. But I highly doubt it… too easy to meet the wincon early game. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Come on baby, make it hurt so good! Sometimes love don’t feel like it should…etc… ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/455 "2017-01-20T07:29:27Z")
It seems like two issues - high volume and the ads, right? Is there anyway to mirror on another site that doesn’t have the ad issues? Is that even allowed? The only other thought I have is subscribing to email versions of the thread. I haven’t looked at the options for that in so long that I don’t know if there’s a way to get digests or anything that would help bucket up the content. I’ll go take a look at the email options now. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/456 "2017-01-20T07:32:18Z")
Killing javascript seems the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/457 "2017-01-20T07:32:54Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > This statement has some merit. Not sure about the voting bit, but the rest is viable You don’t think town would benefit from them block voting? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/458 "2017-01-20T07:34:11Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Who cares about the chances… it would be a brilliant victory and the game would be over… this game is punishment… it’s way too much to keep up with. I mean… I’m replying to a post that is over 20 pages back I believe… we should be praying you’re right. But I highly doubt it… too easy to meet the wincon early game. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Punishment is a good word. All my Mafia sins revisited upon me and yours upon you. Reunion in Purgatory. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/459 "2017-01-20T07:35:49Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I’m more likely to believe that the switches are power specific, rather than faction specific. Or maybe power category specific. So protection roles vs doc specific. Role blockers vs zoning guy. Why can’t they be both? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/460 "2017-01-20T07:39:14Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I’m pretty sure the mods mentioned in either the sign-up thread or Night 0 that the color is one big bag of WIFOM. They said–and I’m paraphrasing here–that there will probably be a mix of genuine clues, intentional misleads, unintentional misleads, and irrelevancies. > > So I wouldn’t read too much into the color if I were you. I didn’t see that, but I’m trusting you that it exists… I wasn’t looking for clues in the color myself… just arguing against the logic used in the statement I quoted. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=24)