# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/541 "2017-01-20T20:05:45Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Meh, he could simply realize that this is a game where every post, comment and punctuation mark is going to be scrutinized by 54 pairs of eyes and so he should be a little less careless in his wording if he wants to play and survive. It’s anti-game to keep on making slips that make him look like scum when he’s town and hand waving his behavior as “that’s just Colby” is enabling him and giving him cover for when he’s actually scum… This. I used to get voted off relatively early in games in the middle of my mafia career for playing SUPER aggressive and combative. So I stopped doing that. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/542 "2017-01-20T20:05:46Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Quote: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by TexCat View Post > > And this post from jsgoddess is just wrong. Perhaps you don’t understand policy vote the same way that I do. Prof P voting for lurkers is a policy vote. He has no specific reason to think that they are scum, and is voting them mostly for being bad for the game or anti-town. > > > > I thought the wording from Colby was scummy. I thought the lurking after a few votes was suspicious. I thought his vote on Brewha was wretched. You clearly didn’t want me to just say that was Colby being Colby, like everyone else now seems to think? > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > Originally Posted by TexCat View Post > > I thought it was obvious. For editing. Not because I think that Normal was necessarily hiding something with the edit, but it sets a bad precedent. I don’t approve of editing. > > I don’t like the apparent double standard here. (note the first TexCat quote is from Day 2, the second is from very early in Day 1.) TexCat is focused on Colby, but he (she? all kitties are she’s right?) absolutely put in a policy vote on Normal Phase for editing. This was just me misunderstanding what jsgoddess was saying. I thought she was saying that my vote on Colby was a policy vote, when I thought clearly it was not. I would almost always prefer to vote someone I thought was scummy, over a policy vote. But I will make policy votes, as I did with my vote on Normal early on D1. > [@sachertorte](#): > > I disagree. Multi-lynch gives us more Lynch opportunities. It isn’t as if we have some fixed number of lynches and that’s it. If we single-lynch each Day, we will have fewer Lynches in the game than if we multi-lynch. The number of Days in the game might be less, but the number of Lynches will still be greater. > I feel it falls under the same reasoning as why “No Lynch” is generally bad as well, which applies to the early game as well. Part of getting a better picture ‘later on’ is the vote record and results of the Lynch. More of that is better than less. I think of multi-lynch as sort of like two Days happening simultaneously. We wouldn’t “no Lynch” a Day, so why give up a second Lynch? And this ‘second-Lynch Day’ has the added bonus of no associated scum kills. It’s really not like two Days though. The difference being when the flips occur. Usually we can take the first flip into account before voting the second Day. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/543 "2017-01-20T20:10:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **brewha is a liar.** > > [Back on D1.475](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19911316&postcount=475), right after I had first pointed out the switch roles and speculated that each faction’s switches were controlled by the other two, he said > > But now, he says that he does have evidence to the contrary: He says that he’s a Townie and has a switch for a Town power role. > > Unless and until he comes up with a very good explanation of this, I will > **Vote brewha** **Chronos** , I have been giving you crap all game, but I can’t argue with this. The false claim play makes absolutely no sense from **brewha** , but I don’t see how one of his posts is not a lie. \*\*Vote brewha \*\* ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/544 "2017-01-20T20:15:40Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Excuse nothin’. I explicitly think **Idle** is more likely than many to flip PFK, I just can’t prove it enough to vote for him with any kind of a coherent case. > > This is strikingly Rovian–you accusing me of doing something that will allow me to excuse a bad decision when I have had a vote on you for exactly that same thing. I just had to google ‘Rovian’. That just might become my favorite new word. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/545 "2017-01-20T20:16:45Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Excuse nothin’. I explicitly think **Idle** is more likely than many to flip PFK, I just can’t prove it enough to vote for him with any kind of a coherent case. > > This is strikingly Rovian–you accusing me of doing something that will allow me to excuse a bad decision when I have had a vote on you for exactly that same thing. How is it Rovian? What it is is inconsistent. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/546 "2017-01-20T20:17:46Z")
Is there any chance brewha hadn’t received the switch PM yet? Timeline: On D0, the mods said all of the role PMs should have gone out by 4:21 PM on the 7th. D1 started on the 7th. brewha posted what Chronos quoted on the 10th. In this thread, he said he got the PM “a couple of days” after the role PM. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/547 "2017-01-20T20:17:49Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I’ll tell you why it’s a bad idea. All Vanillas will claim vanilla. All Scum will claim vanilla. All town power roles will claim…well, what do they claim? > > If they claim non-vanilla, they’ve all just been exposed. > > If they claim vanilla, they’re now lying. (Granted, for a good reason, which is why I don’t like the “lynch all liars” policy some people have. Lying by town is okay, but you better be prepared to justify that lie.) And, if everyone claims vanilla, there’s no real data points. > > So yeah. Bad idea. Very bad idea. > > (snip) > So with one possible exception which I’ll mention below: PLEASE STOP CLAIMING YOU HAVE SWITCHES! > > (snip) > I think Brewha’s claim was seriously anti-town. But I don’t think he’s scum for it. It doesn’t really make sense as a scum play. I also don’t think he or anyone who’s claimed switches is our Sauron. > > Thoughts? I agree with the first part: a mass claim of Town Vanilla folk won’t really benefit us at all. I also agree with the second part, for different reasons: 1. I doubt the switches were handed out to power roles within town 2. I doubt the switch disclaimers (so far) are scum 3. If I am right, scum now has a smaller pool of “targets” (presuming that scum actually will target power roles first) 4. The specificity of **brewha** ’s claim has put a large target on his back. If scum have a second switch, it is in their interest to offsky him and, that way, control when Batman will be able or not to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/548 "2017-01-20T20:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **jsgoddess** : > > Is there any chance brewha hadn’t received the switch PM yet? > > Timeline: > > On D0, the mods said all of the role PMs should have gone out by 4:21 PM on the 7th. > > D1 started on the 7th. > > brewha posted what Chronos quoted on the 10th. > > In this thread, he said he got the PM “a couple of days” after the role PM. Remember, the mods delayed the start of D1 because they were still doing “behind the scenes things”, which they explicitly said was not setting up the Scum boards. I believe that the delay was for them to send out all of the switch PMs, which means they should all have been out by the start of D1, and should certainly have been out by three days into D1. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/549 "2017-01-20T20:30:12Z")
I’m not completely feeling the **Brewha** love at the moment. He produced his claim and his pm as evidence against **Chronos** ’s assumptions of how the buttons were placed. if he wasn’t ready to claim earlier, then, of course he would say nothing. I will wait to hear how **Brewha** responds before joining any vote in that area. Currently my suspicions lay with: **Captain Klutz** , for his claim for the scum button. I still do not see how that is not a slip. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/550 "2017-01-20T20:32:19Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > It’s really not like two Days though. The difference being when the flips occur. Usually we can take the first flip into account before voting the second Day. Yes, it’s the lynching another player without having had the benefit of information from a second NK to adjust the target that makes me nervous. That being said, in this game, we get multiple deaths so perhaps with the multilynch, it’s no different than a regular game except twice as many people should expect to die every dusk and dawn. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/551 "2017-01-20T20:36:05Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > **Captain Klutz** , for his claim for the scum button. I still do not see how that is not a slip. What was the slip? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/552 "2017-01-20T20:39:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Remember, the mods delayed the start of D1 because they were still doing “behind the scenes things”, which they explicitly said was not setting up the Scum boards. I believe that the delay was for them to send out all of the switch PMs, which means they should all have been out by the start of D1, and should certainly have been out by three days into D1. Seems likely. But since we have, unfortunately, a few additional switch “holders” maybe they could confirm the timeline? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/553 "2017-01-20T20:44:20Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > It’s really not like two Days though. The difference being when the flips occur. Usually we can take the first flip into account before voting the second Day. Do you consider that difference significant enough to eschew the second-Lynch entirely? What about the fact that this so-called-second-day occurs without an intervening Night and scum-kill nor scum being able to kill during the second ‘day’? To me, those are pretty big advantages compared to not knowing the results of the primary day. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/554 "2017-01-20T20:49:35Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I disagree. First, I don’t think Captain Klutz took into account septimus’s soft claim. Second, if I assume Captain Klutz did think septimus was a Town Power then scummy Captain Klutz would absolutely not vote for septimus. Voting for a Town Power after a claim?! If Klutz saw septimus’s post as a claim, he would assume others did too. No scum is going to vote that way since actually getting septimus lynched would be a long shot at best. First off, “Scum wouldn’t do that” is a terrible argument. Second, you’re ignoring that there are other purposes to a vote (especially when Scum is doing it) that have nothing to do with whether or not the vote target is eventually lynched. Putting pressure on a potential Town power role in order to force a claim is a perfectly valid reason for a Scum vote. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/555 "2017-01-20T20:52:05Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > First off, “Scum wouldn’t do that” is a terrible argument. Oh, just shoot me now. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/556 "2017-01-20T20:52:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **brewha is a liar.** > > [Back on D1.475](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19911316&postcount=475), right after I had first pointed out the switch roles and speculated that each faction’s switches were controlled by the other two, he said > > But now, he says that he does have evidence to the contrary: He says that he’s a Townie and has a switch for a Town power role. > > Unless and until he comes up with a very good explanation of this, I will > **Vote brewha** (vote bleached) When I first read this, I dismissed your reasoning because it seemed reasonable for even a Townie to keep something under their hat like this. Then I read **Brewha** ’s post again. There was no reason for him to specifically deny having any information about the switches, he could have left that line out entirely. That’s not a Townie making a white lie, that’s deliberate deception. It seems completely possible he made that assessment as scum with a town switch, and was trying to drip a bit of truth to make himself look good later. It’s not the best case in the world, but it’s by far the best case I’ve seen in this game so far. **unvote: AngeloftheNorth vote: brewha** ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/557 "2017-01-20T20:59:00Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Oh, just shoot me now. **Drainbead** : Vig, confirmed? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/558 "2017-01-20T20:59:15Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Second, you’re ignoring that there are other purposes to a vote (especially when Scum is doing it) that have nothing to do with whether or not the vote target is eventually lynched. Putting pressure on a potential Town power role in order to force a claim is a perfectly valid reason for a Scum vote. But… but… but… you JUST said that you think Captain Klutz already picked up on the soft claim and already thought septimus was a Town Power. Why would scummy Captain Klutz care beyond that? Do you actually think scum care _which one?_ No! It’s not a valid reason for a scum vote. It’s a terrible reason! Would you do that as scum? I wouldn’t. I would just shut up, hope septimus gets lynched, and kill him at Night (or Day) if he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/559 "2017-01-20T21:03:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **brewha is a liar.** > > [Back on D1.475](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19911316&postcount=475), right after I had first pointed out the switch roles and speculated that each faction’s switches were controlled by the other two, he said > > But now, he says that he does have evidence to the contrary: He says that he’s a Townie and has a switch for a Town power role. > > Unless and until he comes up with a very good explanation of this, I will > **Vote brewha** I’m not sure that Brewha is a danger to town. I know I’m putting a huge target on my back right now, but I can possibly confirm myself and Brewha if you guys would allow me to do so. I am a non hostile 3rd party. I am able to do one investigation per night until I find another of my group. Once I find them I no longer have that power. I have no problem using my investigation to investigate Brewha. If she comes back to my 3rd party she also will have my same win condition. We ARE NOT win stealers and non hostile so we can win with any faction. I want to win with town. So hopefully we can work together. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/560 "2017-01-20T21:07:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **brewha is a liar.** > > [Back on D1.475](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19911316&postcount=475), right after I had first pointed out the switch roles and speculated that each faction’s switches were controlled by the other two, he said > > But now, he says that he does have evidence to the contrary: He says that he’s a Townie and has a switch for a Town power role. > > Unless and until he comes up with a very good explanation of this, I will > **Vote brewha** You got me. Yes I lied. And what sucks is that I realized it as soon as I posted that. I’m 100% on the wagon that town should never lie. And if someone is caught in a lie, it’s a scum tell. I absolutely should not have stated that I had no evidence to the contrary - but once I posted it, I really didn’t have much for options. I could edit the post - but that looks scummy. I could have posted that yes I do have evidence to the contrary - which would have looked better had I admitted it before I was caught in a lie - but I didn’t want to do a full claim yet, and didn’t want to pull a magic bag. Bad play on my part - but can we go ahead and not lynch me today? Good chance that I’ll be dead by morning. Whether the vig was going to target me or not before, good chance he’ll change his mind if I thinks I’m a liar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=29)