# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/681 "2017-01-21T05:01:06Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > \*\* bufftabby \*\* other cultists \* could \* confirm/ deny the PM accuracy but given the current response they ain’t gonna, are they. [sub] No I am not one of them either [/sub] Well no…but I was looking at what we might be told by mods upon the death of said cultists, specifically alignment possibly including hostile/non-hostile. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/682 "2017-01-21T05:05:33Z")
I’d rather murder scumbalinas toDay. But as scummy as brewha sounds, I get the feeling I had about Lakai late yesterDay. Cultists weirdos can’t be trusted to vote in town’so best interest and should be murdered. But if they count as town for scum win conditions, then maybe not instant murderesults. Do I go back to Diggit for a one off voter? This is my conundrum at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/683 "2017-01-21T05:06:48Z")
Also, stick with ice cold rolling rock on my sore throat? Or step up to makers mark? Did someone say both? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/684 "2017-01-21T05:28:43Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Well said \*\* Hoopy Frood \*\* > > We have 3 , 4 (what is the count now?) unprovoked claims either switchers or 3P---- what would be the Scum motovation to draw this sort of scrutiny? pray tell, anyone? > > We have a pretty smart bunch here _( ok I don’t know if you are all pretty)_ > Some of the voters on this current train are looking to blend and should be suspected. Yeah, what would be the Scum motivation to lie about switches? It does not make sense. I feel like I am missing some big part of the game. Why did \*\*brewha \*\*lie originally? Why did \*\*Crys75 \*\* claim? The thread keeps growing, but becomes more muddied. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/685 "2017-01-21T05:30:29Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Also, stick with ice cold rolling rock on my sore throat? Or step up to makers mark? > > Did someone say both? yes ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/686 "2017-01-21T05:35:09Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I’d rather murder scumbalinas toDay. But as scummy as brewha sounds, I get the feeling I had about Lakai late yesterDay. what do you read as scummy? > [@](#): > > Cultists weirdos can’t be trusted to vote in town’so best interest and should be murdered. But if they count as town for scum win conditions, then maybe not instant murderesults. once identified- If they don’t toe the party line ( within reason of course) we lynch’em > [@](#): > > Do I go back to Diggit for a one off voter? This is my conundrum at the moment. You have to play your game ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/687 "2017-01-21T05:47:20Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Have you attempted to make sense of D1 yet? My analytic method tends to not produce good results from record analysis until we get at least one scum. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/688 "2017-01-21T05:53:44Z")
> [@Crys75](#): > > OK so I have a switch too. My role pm is similar in wording as the thing that bothers me is that brewhas and my own is that we know what switch we have. The other guys says scum power redacted it seems unfair that he doesn’t know what his switch controls. Now if he redacted his own control switch why would he hide that. I am tempted to stick a huge FOS on Chrono. I didn’t post my pm because I don’t think it’s wise to reveal all of our switchers and what switches they control. > > Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk > [@Crys75](#): > > Brewha pm matches mine pretty much word for word which I already posted > Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk Oh, sure, you say you said the thing I’m quoting above, but I remember it differently. One of us is clearly wrong. **unvote all** My vote was heavily influenced by my inaccurate memory. I’ll try and make sense of this again in the morning. There’s plenty of time. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/689 "2017-01-21T06:03:25Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Redacted, maybe. But I simply cannot see two masonic groups like these, both being on the town side. And we KNOW there is a legitimately townie masonic group out there. > > One of the pointers to said redaction is that we have [the win conditions](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19895637&postcount=2) which explicitly state (bleached): > > Crys tells us her win conditions are > one of the two must be wrong. And I am betting there was a modification in the latter one. The rules you quoted specified “exclusive 3rd party win”. The claim is that of a nonexclusive 3rd party. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/690 "2017-01-21T06:06:36Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Oh, sure, you say you said the thing I’m quoting above, but I remember it differently. One of us is clearly wrong. > > **]unvote all[/color]** > > My vote was heavily influenced by my inaccurate memory. I’ll try and make sense of this again in the morning. There’s plenty of time. I know I am tired- and maybe that is why I can’t understand what you are saying here? ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/691 "2017-01-21T06:07:03Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > This is my understanding as well and this is why I changed my vote to **Crys**. This seems fundamentally untrustworthy to me. The cult does not need a town victory in order to win. This does not align with town needs. What am I missing? I told you what your missing in my missive. But I’ll explain it again. Scum win by getting town to lynch non-scum a certain number of times. If you don’t have any additional kills during a cycle, each time town lynches non-scum and scum kill non-scum, the number of “mislynches” remaining for town decreases. When that number hits zero (i.e. scum numbers are equal to or greater than town’s) the game is won by scum. In such a scenario, you can never increase this number once the game starts. It will always go down. Even when you lynch scum, scum will counter by killing a townie. So the mislynch buffer hasn’t changed. You’ve traded 1 for 1. In other words let’s say at the beginning of the day it’s 3 scum to 4 town. A mislynch by town will result in a win for scum. But town lynches a scum that Day. And then a townie gets killed that Night. The next day it’s now 2 scum to 3 town. And town will still lose with a mislynch. The numbers will never go up. If instead of 3 town there’s 2 town and a third-party, lynching the third party loses them the game. Now with other killing roles in play, the numbers can change. They can even go up. Every non-scum death in a cycle counts as 0.5 of a mislynch. The mislynch buffer decreases by that much. Every scum death in a cycle will actually add 0.5 to that mislynch buffer. So a one for one trade changes nothing, but if 2 scum die in a cycle and only one non-scum dies in a cycle, town actually gains 0.5 mislynch. But as a general rule, count on that number decreasing in the long term. The goal is to eliminate scum before your mislynch buffer reaches 0. Killing third parties does not accomplish that goal. Any lynch of of third party needs to take that fact into consideration. ```auto Oh, and I probably won't be around much tomorrow. (Well technically it is tomorrow timewise.) I might be around in the morning, but I probably won't be back until Sunday morning. ``` ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/692 "2017-01-21T06:13:17Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Ah, ok. I see what you are saying now. Although I’m not entirely sure I agree. Thanks for the clarification. What is it you see? That the rules state explicitly a town win supercedes an EXCLUSIVE third party win? Your post looks like a blanket statement… like it could literally reply to any post… do you have a bunch of these saved in word doc and just copy and paste them every once in a while? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/693 "2017-01-21T06:16:30Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Last game with switches we heard nothing. > > Huh? Is there some super weird numbers thing going on right now? I recall someone asking if there were 7 members of Lutha… a response of 5… and now someone post something about 8 hours a day that seems entirely out of context and just plain odd… the 7 5 exchange was weird enough… like a secret handshake to confirm membership. Or maybe I’m just paranoid. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/694 "2017-01-21T06:26:14Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I"m seriously looking askance at all of those so eager to lynch Crys toDay. You know who loves to see 3rd parties lynched? Scum! You know why? Because third parties typically count as town for scum win conditions. And this game is no different. Scum have to have numbers 50% or greater than the population on the whole and greater than the total number remaining of the other scum team. > > Every lynch of a third party counts as a mislynch as far as the numbers are concerned. I would think in a game with this many veterans there’d be more people pointing this fact out. > > While scum prefer to take out power roles, at the end of the Day cycle, a successful kill furthers their goal regardless of the faction killed (assuming it’s not one of them of course). But third parties, particularly hostile ones are an issue. So if they can get town to lynch them, they save themselves from being lynched and have one less non-scum that might take their win away. (Since town only wins by eliminating scum. Third parties win in other ways.) > > So let’s do the scum job for them. Great idea! Even though scum lose nothing but a chance at hitting town power roles and/or confirmed town by taking out a third party. They don’t bring themselves directly closer to a loss. Unlike town. Who every time they lynch someone other than scum bring themselves one step closer to losing. Despite **Crys75** death throes, I cannot see why anyone would be especially motivated to kill her this cycle. I think there are questions about her claim that bear scrutiny, but it is not really a major Town concern right now. We need to kill Scum. The real question is about **brewha**. I want to keep my vote on him, but only if he is Scum. And I cannot think of any reason for Scum to behave as he has. And yet the early lie was so needless and clumsy. Why was it done? If I am Town and I lie, there had better be a good reason. Who lies as an offhand “oops?” Not Town. Ugh. I am too tired for this right now. Let’s see how it goes after some sleep. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/695 "2017-01-21T06:27:27Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What would be the point of finding other cult members? Their wincon as claimed is that they win if even 1 of the members survives to endgame. As claimed the reasoning would seem to be that they can each find one other member… as long as that other member lived the original member would know that at least 2 people from the group are alive. It gives them insight into whether or not they should go into survival mode. It makes sense to me… but I assume quite a bit and could be off base. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/696 "2017-01-21T06:40:40Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Can someone clarify the way that masons usually work? (I know, I know, the Education of Raventhief gets old fast) > > Do Masons usually have a way to communicate/discuss outside of the game? Or is it just identifying other trustworthy souls? When you say stuff like this… do you realize you are telling the rest of the players you are not whatever role you are asking about? I’m not trying to be mean here… but if you start asking about key town roles and give scum info they didn’t already have that doesn’t really benefit town… I don’t know… it bugs me. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > On switches and their holders: > We have three claimants. Brewha was the first to claim, Crys and Captain Klutz followed. Captain and Crys claim scum role switches and have very similar switch PMs. Brewha can push Batman’s buttons. > > I understand the concern for Crys and about third parties, but that role PM is something Mahaloth and/or storyteller would write. (NAF, I don’t know what your solo role PMs read like, so I can’t say.) I don’t think it’s fabricated. It would take more than scooping out a couple of words to change it from win stealing to win sharing. It’s semi-masonic survivors. I’m inclined to let it go for now. > > Of the three switch claimants, there are the fewest issues with Captain’s claim. > > Brewha is the odd one out. They’ve lied about switch information, and their quoted PM doesn’t match the others. The only thing that doesn’t ping me is the fact that brewha was the first to claim a switch. Still, that’s not enough. The other supporting evidence (lie about switches, mismatched PM) is enough to draw a vote. > > **unvote all** > **vote Brewha** > [@TexCat](#): > > I doubt it was a super secret scum message, but it very possibly could have been a super secret cultist message to Crys. > > **unvote: BillMc > vote: snfaulkner** > > Pedit: Raven, sometimes they have a board to discuss on, but looking at their PMs in this game, it doesn’t look like they do. They just know who the other masons are and that they can be trusted as town. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/697 "2017-01-21T07:00:30Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > When you say stuff like this… do you realize you are telling the rest of the players you are not whatever role you are asking about? I’m not trying to be mean here… but if you start asking about key town roles and give scum info they didn’t already have that doesn’t really benefit town… I don’t know… it bugs me. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk OK- but what was the point of your quotes after this statement without comments?? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/698 "2017-01-21T07:04:58Z")
**Crys** , why did you choose **Drain Bead** to investigate? (Drain has already asked this question. I am interested also) ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/699 "2017-01-21T07:19:05Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > Well said \*\* Hoopy Frood \*\* I was talking to the 4 leggers and the three legger about this- but I didn’t get it into human words before you did. [sub] yes I could have just said my dogs, but the spit fires among us would have glommed I was a wolf or some such- betcha [/sub] > > \*\* bufftabby \*\* other cultists \* could \* confirm/ deny the PM accuracy but given the current response they ain’t gonna, are they. [sub] No I am not one of them either [/sub] > **We have 3 , 4 (what is the count now?) unprovoked claims either switchers or 3P---- what would be the Scum motovation to draw this sort of scrutiny? pray tell, anyone?** > > We have a pretty smart bunch here _( ok I don’t know if you are all pretty)_ > Some of the voters on this current train are looking to blend and should be suspected. Bolding mine. I’m leaning toward a theory where Crys is telling the truth and Brewha is a lying scum who doesn’t actually have the switch she claims and was hoping for a town counterclaim. That way they take out the townie… and maybe Brewha is in hot water, but if they aren’t actually holding that switch, scum would have gained sole control of the Batswitch. \*\* Unvote DiggitCamara \*\* I have even more problems with DiggitCamara toDay… and will compile those when I can get off my phone and on a computer… but for now, the Crys/Brewha race is a lot more pressing. [Color=blue]\*\*Vote Brewha \*\*[/vote] Of the two, I’d much rather lynch a liar who had a very scummy motivation to lie than a self proclaimed 3rd party that may or may not be communicating in code. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/700 "2017-01-21T07:30:59Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > This is my understanding as well and this is why I changed my vote to **Crys**. This seems fundamentally untrustworthy to me. The cult does not need a town victory in order to win. This does not align with town needs. What am I missing? I have no interest in lynching someone that is claiming 3rd party. We need to lynch scum… if the cult is dangerous to town, then they are dangerous to scum as well… the Cult could definitely benefit from aligning with town’s numbers though… if town and the cult align scum would have to choose between offing the cult or hunting power roles… and the cult benefits by being to able to be open in looking for each other. They also benefit because the scum might prefer to hunt power roles and leave them alone. Given the claimed info, it seems that Crys/other cultists had a choice between groping blindly in the dark, searching for breadcrumbs, or attempting to align themselves with town. Alignment with scum is obviously not an option. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=36)