# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/781 "2017-01-21T18:37:35Z")
> [@BillMC](#): > > > [@brewha](#): > > > > I honestly believe that a vigilante that has to kill is a liability to the town. Batman is killing blindly and right now - just based on the population - he’s more likely to kill town. > > > > If the game was closer and the scum were desperate to find the vig, I could see how my claim could be viewed as scum. But, right now? that is some very weak scum motivation. > > So your motivation for this is basically to remove batman from the game? Do you have some 3rd party win condition on taking out batman? Wouldn’t staying quiet about the switch have given him a better chance of neutralizing batman? > [@Crys75](#): > > I have no problem using my investigation to investigate Brewha. If she comes back to my 3rd party she also will have my same win condition. And this is after he claimed VT? Have you explained yet what you saw in Brewha? > [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > I’m not of the have to lynch 3rd parties asap camp, but need a little more than to develop trust. Can you share some more about what your win condition is? She posted it in #561, what do you make of it? Or was this post just for show? > [@Crys75](#): > > Now that I can tell you. There are only 5. I didn’t want to do it before, but I will now to show that I am willing to share information. I’m not lying and you will find that out more likely than sooner or later. I suggested 7, insinuating she was scum protecting a teammate. > [@snfaulkner](#): > > Huh? In #438 you mentioned that you are “essentially able to play a major fraction of 8hrs a day while at work.” and I noted that your contributions to the game so far did not correspond with some with so much time on their hands, looked like you were following along, but laying low. > [@bufftabby](#): > > You’re surprised that two Town members from that game didn’t recall that scum didn’t know each other D1, but one of the scum members did recall that? Yes, I was, not that you forgot, but that you were discussing how his scumbuddies defended him on D1 when in fact he had none yet and was killed that Night… > [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I"m seriously looking askance at all of those so eager to lynch Crys toDay. You know who loves to see 3rd parties lynched? Claimed third party, claimed non-exclusive, if we can confirm some of that information with a lynch or something else, great. My vote is on crys from earlier in the Day, before the claim but it’s staying there. > [@Crys75](#): > > Oh and PS those of you that have played with me before know I’m telling you the truth. How does this work? I’ve played with you before and have absolutely no way to know you are telling the truth. Or is this specific to something else? > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Is there some super weird numbers thing going on right now? I recall someone asking if there were 7 members of Lutha… a response of 5… and now someone post something about 8 hours a day that seems entirely out of context and just plain odd… the 7 5 exchange was weird enough… like a secret handshake to confirm membership. Coincidence, I was suggesting that there were 7 members of the cult because they were actually a scum team. Then SNF replied to an entirely unrelated post about his 8hr work day… > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Step 4: ToMorrow, all Masons reveal. Why all masons? Couldn’t one claim, only, and if s/he dies, another one can step up as spokesperson? > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > The way I interpreted events was that Brewha was the lynch leader and had admitted to lying. If I was a cultists and saw the situation brewha was in I would have to consider whether or not there was potential for them to also be a cultist before casting a vote for them. He also claimed VT, right? > [@Crys75](#): > > Because I knew that regardless of when I claimed and I was the first I would die. You guys can say that we would have no pressure, but that is false and you know it. No, I meant the suggestion was for friendly third parties to claim on Day 1, before there was any pressure on them to claim (due to an investigation or lynch), and that would be taken as a significant sign of being willing to collaborate with town. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If you’re talking about the “I’m not third party, I’m Town,” I was one of the ones who actually did it… Whoa, so what was crys on, just meds? > [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > In addition, since your PM is known only to yourselves it would be trivially easy to breadcrumb by using something from it. I looked, and looked, and you know what I found? > [@Old School Mafia Reunion (newer players welcome too)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/old-school-mafia-reunion-newer-players-welcome-too/773487/342): > > The alpha replied, "No, but I know they are coming. Members of the town anti crime groups, cops, the cultists, the masons, the new Godfather from Ceciltown, probably even Clemenza. Let them come. This is our town still. Just because my father is dead doesn’t mean I will allow anyone to take control back. Let them all come. Or not. If they are smart they will leave us the hell alone. " LUTHA are wolves! ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/782 "2017-01-21T18:43:04Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > **Post 186** > I gotta say as well. Post 186, this is the first mention of switches in the day. Points to Brewha’s Switchy Credibility in that he’s the first to talk about it, and he’s been making alot of statements early in the day with confidence (re: knowing what his switch does and not being worried about a counter-claim or anything). @ToeJam Being first just shows that Brewha had knowledge of the switches before it was open knowledge… that could mean they have a switch, but it could also mean they are scum and got the switch info from a teammate. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/783 "2017-01-21T18:49:31Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Because, you know, it really is just that simple. > > Oh, and let’s not actually weigh or determine “right” here. Nope, simply change without any actual thinking. I must be wrong, because, reasons. I’m not sure I really parse you here… but I think you are sarcastically saying that discussing meta issues on game play here would be bad… but you are actually right… you are generating a lot of noise that does not give us any insight into finding scum. In a game this large signal to noise ratio can be a strong tool for scum and exponentially more of a hindrance to town… in a normal game you posting meta thoughts not directly affecting the game at hand is tolerable. In a game this size it gives scum too much of a leg up because it makes it harder for town to keep up. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/784 "2017-01-21T18:49:42Z")
I went back and reread the color and the roles - why was the alpha wolf chatting worth the young duvall looking mafia Consigliere? ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/785 "2017-01-21T18:54:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I reserve the right to continue to believe that Meeko is scummy, but I appear to be alone in that boat, so I will hold off until I can add to my case. > . I’ve played with and been frustrated by Meeko too many times to count… and my memory serves it was often a town meeko… now I just posted that his tendency to drift off on meta tangents and his generally difficult to parse posting style is especially bad for town in this game… but it doesn’t prove anything about his alignment… just that he is a hindrance… I also think he could be very helpful to town in spite of this hindrance. You might be right about Meeko, but I think we have more pressing issues at hand… Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/786 "2017-01-21T18:56:36Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > I thought we got this straightened out Night 0. The rules say: > > Therefore there \*\*can \*\*be a SK who can win if and only if they meet their win condition before town and wolves and mafia meet theirs. And a nonexclusive survival cult is possible. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/787 "2017-01-21T18:58:23Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Yes, I was, not that you forgot, but that you were discussing how his scumbuddies defended him on D1 when in fact he had none yet and was killed that Night… Apologies for my faulty recollection of something we only discovered in the endgame, from a month ago, when I only reviewed **Colby** ’s interactions from D1 to verify that I was recalling things correctly before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/788 "2017-01-21T18:58:32Z")
> [@](#): > > [Quoth **ToeJam**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19938300&postcount=774): > > This… I’m actually more okay with than a Dummy Lynch plan. I’m fine with giving a known Townie (Vig) the knife rather than hiding votes. This is what I expect from you Satch. It took your doppleganger to suggest it. I would have thought that you’d know better than that, **ToeJam**. It is possible for Scum to gain some degree of control over whether the Vig works or not. Maybe their Tracker gets lucky (which may, for all we know, have already happened), and they figure out who the Vig is, and can target him with their roleblocker. Maybe one holder of a Vig switch dies, and Scum holding the other switch know or suspect that. In either case, if it’s known who the Vig is going to target, the Scum can just choose to always let him kill if it’s not targeted at one of them, and stop him if he is. That’s a terrible outcome for Town, as it turns the Vig from a mixed blessing into an unmitigated liability. > [@](#): > > Also, (a Rooshian Gastard Idea): If we have scum watchers, every Vanilla Town should still target themselves then every night just to see if that gives confounding results to the scum. Target themselves with what? Vanilla, by definition, don’t have powers. **raventhief** , you might prefer to think of yourself as a [super-advanced flying stealth dinosaur](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html). > [@](#): > > [Quoth **paulwhoisaghost**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19938321&postcount=777): > > This isn’t true… as I have pointed out… the win resolution order lays it out… exclusive 3rd party wins are superceded by town or scum wins. It doesn’t lay out non-exclusive 3rd party wins because they are self explanatory… they don’t interfere with the win resolution laid out. I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with-- That’s why I said that if **Crys** was lying and was actually hostile, the only thing we know about her wincon is that it can trigger before Town and Scum. Hostile wincons must be able to trigger earlier, because they can’t trigger at the same time. > [@](#): > > Or are you stating that you think Crys is telling mixed truth and is 3rd party with an exclusive wincon and that wincon is not survival in nature? Well, maybe. It could still be survival in nature, if it’s something like “survive until Day 7”, or “survive until there are only five players left”, or whatever. Or of course it could be something completely unrelated, possibly even something that could happen after they’re all dead (like a Mad Bomber who needs all living players to be tagged might win posthumously if the non-tagged players get killed off, for instance). We just don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![LightFoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LightFoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LightFoot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/789 "2017-01-21T19:03:25Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > ~~snip~~ > > I looked, and looked, and you know what I found? > LUTHA are wolves! The alpha replied, "No, but I know they are coming. Members of the town anti crime groups, cops,\*\* the cultists,\*\* the masons, the new Godfather from Ceciltown, probably even Clemenza. Let them come. This is our town still. Just because my father is dead doesn’t mean I will allow anyone to take control back. Let them all come. Or not. If they are smart they will **leave us the hell alone**. " the alpha says the cultists are against them. But also says “leave us the hell alone” is there another cult? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/790 "2017-01-21T19:09:59Z")
Reviewing this morning where to place my vote: Option 1 **ToeJam** : likely scum; definitely lurker Option 2 **Chrys** : claimed third party cultist Option 3 **Brewha** : claimed townie; definitely liar I had previously moved my **ToeJam** vote based on the notions that either the mods would get him, he would get vig killed, or we could snatch him up on another Day. He has returned to the thread, but I notice that he has not responded to any of the arguments that were placed Day 1, other than the non-participation one. Therefore, I still think there’s a high likelihood he’s scum. I am not going to move my vote back to him for now, however. I think the other conditions will still prevail, unless he can somehow fully redeem himself at the 11th hour. I am persuaded by statements by **Chronos** and **Captain Klutz** that one of the cultists need to die in order to verify Chrys’ assertions about non-hostility. > [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not willing to use a kill on **Crys** (or one of her teammates) that we could have used to target potential Scum. However, I don’t think that the kill we’re currently building towards really could have been used against Scum. Look at the voting record before the **brewha** and **Crys** things came up: We were going a whole lot of nowhere. IIRC, the vote leader at that time had a whopping two votes. There was no way we were going to get two different people both up to 17, which is what would have needed to happen to double-lynch. And at least one LUTHA does need to die eventually for us to trust them. So I don’t have a big problem with our second lynch toDay going to **Crys** , but assuming that her flip is 100% consistent with what she’s told us, I do have a big problem with lynching any subsequent LUTHA. > > On **brewha** , my gut is telling me that he really is just a Townie who made a mistake, but I never trust my gut on matters outside of its area of expertise. When my gut tells me that it’s been too long since breakfast and I should have lunch, or that that sausage I ate was past its prime, I believe it. For deciding whether to trust someone, though, I listen to my head, and my head is saying that that’s just what a scummy **brewha** would say. As to why he did it? Remember, ordinarily all the Scum team needs to do to win is to get just one of their number trusted by Town. Now, this game, that’s a little different, since there’s also the risk of getting killed by the other Scum team, but then again, with seven Scum on each team, they can also afford to take a little more risks. And until I found that lie, there were a lot of people saying they were inclined to think **brewha** Town. In other words, as a Scum gambit, it was working. > [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > So your method of finding your fellow cultists is to make a random guess? You did not look for any clues that might point to a fellow cultist? > > My problem with your claimed role is that it doesn’t really work properly. You are limited to finding only one fellow member, which doesn’t really make sense. In addition, since your PM is known only to yourselves it would be trivially easy to breadcrumb by using something from it. Something that is noticeable to anyone who has seen that role, but innocuous to others. But it seems that all 5 cultists didn’t think of that, as you didn’t see anything that made you sit up and take notice. Instead you just made a random guess. > > But what if you are telling the truth? Then you would be a mislynch. But that may not be all bad, if we get confirmation of whether you are hostile or non hostile. If you are indeed non hostile, then that is great. We would have 4 people who could confirm each other and are not scum. That is an impressive block of unlynchables that would make it very difficult for any scum team to get a majority (yes, we may need to be more careful as we near the endgame, but that is a long way away). > > The worst result is if you are revealed as third party but no indication of hostile/non hostile. Then it’s a mislynch for no gain. > > I’m happy with my Crys vote. It also looks like **Brewha** will be lynched, so lynch the liar is covered. I am leaving my vote on **Chrys**. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/791 "2017-01-21T19:10:46Z")
\*\*VOTE COUNT 1 – brewha (16 votes) – Chronos (538), Biotop (543), Boozahol Squid (556), Cometothe…Cookies (575), sachertorte (576), bufftabby (622), Drain Bead (638), raventhief (646), paulwhoisaghost (702), Khameleon (716), Lakai (720), HookerChemical (722), Meeko (726), ToeJam (730) 2- Crys75 (8 votes) – Guiri (262), Sunny Daze (568), Hockey Monkey (584), DiggitCamara (588), AngeloftheNorth (595), Texcat (639), Captain Klutz (640), snfaulkner (641) 3 – Pleonast (2 votes) – Lightfoot (288), Thing Fish (297) ``` PLAYERS WITH ONE VOTE: ToeJam (Idle Thoughts – 32); Hockey Monkey (Hoopy Frood – 665); Sario (ProfPepperwinkle – 46); Texcat (Plumpudding – 68); Thing Fish (Pleonast -121); Chronos (Nanook – 151); Meeko (Johnny Bravo – 169); paulwhoisaghost (Zeriel – 529); Captain Klutz (Crys75 – 582). ``` * * * With the current vote count, brewha, and only brewha, will be lynched. 17 votes are required for the second place vote-getter to die. Day 2 will end at 3:00PM Eastern Standard Time tomorrow (Sunday, January 22), or in about 28 hours. As a friendly reminder, all Day actions must be submitted by this time. As always, there are no powers that affect the vote count. Any apparent irregularities are the result of moderator error.\*\* > [@raventhief](#): > > Man, I miss Giraffe’s robot. **I voted to host the game at Giraffe! 😃** ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/792 "2017-01-21T19:25:20Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Wouldn’t staying quiet about the switch have given him a better chance of neutralizing batman? > > And this is after he claimed VT? Have you explained yet what you saw in Brewha? > > She posted it in #561, what do you make of it? Or was this post just for show? > > I suggested 7, insinuating she was scum protecting a teammate. > > In #438 you mentioned that you are “essentially able to play a major fraction of 8hrs a day while at work.” and I noted that your contributions to the game so far did not correspond with some with so much time on their hands, looked like you were following along, but laying low. > > Yes, I was, not that you forgot, but that you were discussing how his scumbuddies defended him on D1 when in fact he had none yet and was killed that Night… > > Claimed third party, claimed non-exclusive, if we can confirm some of that information with a lynch or something else, great. My vote is on crys from earlier in the Day, before the claim but it’s staying there. > > How does this work? I’ve played with you before and have absolutely no way to know you are telling the truth. Or is this specific to something else? > > Coincidence, I was suggesting that there were 7 members of the cult because they were actually a scum team. Then SNF replied to an entirely unrelated post about his 8hr work day… > > Why all masons? Couldn’t one claim, only, and if s/he dies, another one can step up as spokesperson? > > He also claimed VT, right? > > No, I meant the suggestion was for friendly third parties to claim on Day 1, before there was any pressure on them to claim (due to an investigation or lynch), and that would be taken as a significant sign of being willing to collaborate with town. > > Whoa, so what was crys on, just meds? > > I looked, and looked, and you know what I found? > LUTHA are wolves! Claiming VT did not discount him as a cultist lying to blend in with town in a survival attempt… if anything it’s what I would expect a cultists in Brewha’s shoes to do… but just bringing attention to themselves should have pointed away from Brewha being a cultist… maybe Crys didn’t think about that though… As for your last comment and supposed catch… if the wolves are LUTHA, then why are cultists mentioned in the same color post by the mod? I get the last few words are LUTHA, but why would Crys be risking someone finding this if he’s a wolf… surely the naming of his false cult would lead people back to this post. I think it’s a red herring placed intentionally by the mod to make it that much harder for the cultists to win. I don’t see a scum Crys false claiming 3rd party unprovoked and using language in it that ties back to his true faction… the only way it makes sense is if wolves don’t know each other’s identity. Is that what you are suggesting? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/793 "2017-01-21T19:45:13Z")
> [@LightFoot](#): > > The alpha replied, "No, but I know they are coming. Members of the town anti crime groups, cops,\*\* the cultists,\*\* the masons, the new Godfather from Ceciltown, probably even Clemenza. Let them come. This is our town still. Just because my father is dead doesn’t mean I will allow anyone to take control back. Let them all come. Or not. If they are smart they will **leave us the hell alone**. " > > the alpha says the cultists are against them. But also says “leave us the hell alone” > > is there another cult? Well, it’s just color, and the closest thing to a breadcrumb I could find, it goes some way towards supporting the existence of a cult, and I thought it coming from the alpha was worth a comment. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/794 "2017-01-21T19:46:16Z")
**unvote Sario** **vote brewha** ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/795 "2017-01-21T20:11:39Z")
Some thoughts which smarter people may have already thought of. brewha claimed he had a switch, then posted text he said was from the switch pm. But the text of the pm seems incomplete. It starts with “Oh, one more thing.” This does not read like a full pm, but as the last paragraph of a longer pm. That’s a minor issue, obviously, if the pm is imaginary. I’m thinking more about these pm switch texts. I’m typing as I think to see if there’s anything to be gained from this line of thought. brewha’s lie about not having any additional information doesn’t ping me as hard as it does others. brewha is the first to post text from an ostensible switch pm. Captain Klutz later posts a switch pm. CK’s pm has different text. Then Crys posts text that matches CK’s text. Our choices seem to be 1. brewha’s text is text from an actual switch pm 2. CK’s text (and therefore Crys’s) is text from an actual switch pm 3. both texts are texts from one or more actual switch pms 4. neither text is text from an actual switch pm If brewha’s text is from an actual switch pm, that says that brewha either got a switch pm or got the text from someone who got a switch pm. If brewha’s text is NOT text from an actual switch pm, that means he either made up the text alone, or that he got help making up the text from scum teammates, which would suggest that scum does not have switch pms, because otherwise wouldn’t they just use a real pm’s text? If the text were made up, that would make the off vs. toggle discrepancy more understandable. The mods also didn’t confirm anything about brewha’s claimed wording, only said that the switches were toggles and that they didn’t send out any contradictory information. I think it was paulwhoisaghost who suggested a scum motivation for his switch claim, which is interesting and plausible. But if pwiag’s reasoning is right, the scum team in question has a Batman switch. So that would make it more likely they are just using the text from that pm. But then the off vs. toggle discrepancy is less understandable. CK posted second. Same origin choices as brewha’s, but the additional question of if CK and brewha are working together, why use different text? Using different text seems to undercut brewha’s claim. If not working together, why would CK invent wording that was different than brewha’s instead of piggybacking on brewha’s claim if possible, perhaps by delaying sharing the actual text? He seemed not to hesitate sharing a different text. But if CK’s text is made up, isn’t that dangerous? Making up a different text would suggest that CK is scum and brewha is not on the same team. But it also just seems rather foolish because he would have no way to know if brewha’s text would or would not match other switch pms, leaving CK’s text as the outlier. This makes me inclined to think CK’s text is accurate, though it wasn’t necessarily addressed to him and it isn’t necessarily a switch to a scum role. Then Crys comes in, claims brewha might be 3rd party as she is, but then claims CK’s pm text, not brewha’s, and not a third text. This might mean that both CK and Crys got, or have access to, the same pm text (not necessarily the same pm). Given later confusion she expressed about whose text matched hers, this could potentially just have been a mistake and she meant to ape brewha’s text, not CK’s. But if it wasn’t a mistake and if she’s on _brewha’s_ team, again, why claim CK’s pm text? If we assume for the moment that all 3 are accurate, why would CK and Crys’s text differ from brewha’s? It could be that brewha is a different faction and that the different factions get different switch pm texts. It could be that a different mod wrote it and just didn’t duplicate the other mod’s text. If we assume for the moment that one of the two is accurate and the other is inaccurate, do we have any reason to favor one than the other? If forced to choose, I think we have reason to think CK’s text is more accurate than brewha’s. Crys’s agreement is weak evidence, but it’s evidence. Also the inherent danger in contradicting brewha’s text without some bolstering and without any potential gain like outing the “matching” switch holder makes this unlikely to me (since CK doesn’t identify which switch, he cannot try to find the matches). brewha’s claimed text says he can switch Batman. Possibly weird to have a control of a Town power role, but it is a compulsory vig which many Town people dislike, at least in early rounds. CK did not say which role his switch changed, only that it was a scum role. These strike me as plausible. Crys claims to have been given a Bodyguard switch. I am baffled by this, maybe because of the discussion earlier in the game about the uselessness of this role, which only seems to trade one death for another while giving information to the killer about the likely faction of the protected player. But why have a switch that controls a role that is both voluntary and useless? Options: 1. Crys has (or has seen) a Bodyguard switch. Every scum power, or maybe every power in the game, has a switch, which requires two switches per scum power, which means 28 switches minimum. If brewha’s switch claim is also accurate, this would go up to at least 30 (if my math doesn’t suck); 2. Crys has (or has seen) a Bodyguard switch. The switches are not for every power, but the mods decided to include a Bodyguard switch, despite the seeming futility; or 3. Crys is making it up. Since Crys seems to be baffled by what the Bodyguard does, I lean toward 3. She could have just grabbed a scum role without thinking too hard about it. Well, I’ve typed all of that and it still leaves wide open the option that all or none are telling the truth. But I find the Bodyguard switch weird, and Crys’s apparent misunderstanding or obfuscation of that role, her leaping in to the brewha fray, plus her confusion or obfuscation over which text did not match her claimed pm’s text makes her the most likely of the three for me, with brewha second and CK third. Because of these oddities, I will **Vote Crys**. But I figure there have been dozens of posts since I started this that I will now have to tackle. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/796 "2017-01-21T20:56:41Z")
Just a heads up guys, I’m on holidays skiing this week so my participation will be affected Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/797 "2017-01-21T21:16:19Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Meeko i haven’t played with you before. I guess this is you doing you, but I’m fairly confused. It is. I just didn’t think I would get to hating Mafia again this soon in this game. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/798 "2017-01-21T21:22:09Z")
In reading the posts from when I was writing my treatise, I definitely see the sense in backing off a Crys vote because of the threat to Town from burning through mislynches that improve scum standing. But my dilemma is that I think a Crys vote is better than a brewha vote because I (counter-intuitively) feel that brewha is being more honest than Crys is, even with the known lie. I also find both Meeko’s and Crys’s posts extraordinarily difficult to parse. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/799 "2017-01-21T21:23:59Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I also find both Meeko’s and Crys’s posts extraordinarily difficult to parse. > [@Meeko](#): > > It is. I just didn’t think I would get to hating Mafia again this soon in this game. Well, except for this one. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/800 "2017-01-21T21:36:08Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Also. Goddamn **Meeko**. Your posts are just… I don’t know. At least you’re consistent in your style of just the sound and the fury with random references to spongebob thrown in. Where do you stand on the whole Shaved versus Bald debate? * * * 1. As I stated before, I seriously botched my pacing in this game. I feel like I made 10 days worth of posts in Day 1. Consequently, I am at a point where I feel like at best I have burned out, at worst, I hate Mafia again. 2.I really don’t see how non-switch holders can participate at all right now. 3.I think every last plan on the table is half baked, and will not work. They demand too much from people who have no reason to contribute. **Masons claiming on Day 2. REALLY?!** 4.In general, all talk of plans, even if they were good, is causing more noise than noise. Do or do not, there is no plan. [[If you guys don’t get that one, I give up.]] 1. The sum of 1-4 make it hard for me to play. 2. In case it’s not clear, my vote is in place, as policy, against lying. 7.Even if the lie in 6 didn’t come to light, as **Cookies** was hinting at, due to playing non “Meeko Mafia”, something else would have taken it’s place. 1. The “things” in 7, not addressed by 6, are still there, but muted. I would wager, in hindsight, the things we haven’t seen yet ((That are already “seeable”, that is, text in posts already posted.)) will prove to be better indicators of scum. . . . Say what you want, but yes, I am playing the way I play. I don’t really see any other way. I don’t really see how else I can contribute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=41)