# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/881 "2017-01-22T03:48:54Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Sorry. When you can’t comprehend that there are two different scum factions that do not communicate with each other, I’ll tend to be a bit insulting. > > You’re voting to lynch a vanilla town based on essentially nothing. Please learn from your mistakes and stop killing town. It’s my only chance of winning this game. You are not making sense. Of course I realize there are two mafia factions that can’t communicate with each other. That was never an issue at hand. The issue at hand was that the perspective of your post was that a scum with knowledge of a switch could only have that knowledge if they had that switch. It’s bad logic. It’s easier for me to generalize the two teams and just say scum because the statement applies to both factions. Any member of the mafia team would be able to get information about switches from any other member of the mafia who held those switches. Any member of the wolves would be able to get information from any other member of the wolves that held switches. Is that still too nonsensical for you? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/882 "2017-01-22T03:51:11Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > Are you being serious? Do you not see a difference between lying and being wrong? It’s only lying if he doesn’t actually belive what he is saying. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Seriously, you’re not helping town. I’m going to be lynched - stop trying to convince me I’m scum - it’s not going to work. I have no reason to “belive” you’re not simply misguided town. Stop being misguided. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/883 "2017-01-22T03:52:38Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > You just lied. > > If anyone believes what you wrote, you should be the next on the gallows. > > I’m not 3rd party and I’m not scum. I’m vanilla townie. And now, you’re as much of a liar as I am. That’s what’s called an opinion, not a lie. I think if you aren’t one you are the other, ergo I don’t believe you are vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/884 "2017-01-22T03:53:45Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > New phone. And the unfamiliar predictive autofuckups keep trying to send nefarious scum codes to the resistinsurgenscums. You’re better off to leave the fuck ups and post again to correct them. Editing looks scummy as hell. Yes, I do understand the irony of this post. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/885 "2017-01-22T03:54:33Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Wait. So, you’re saying that his belief that I’m scum is wrong?!? Why would you say that?!? > > If you think I’m not town -there is no reason to even address my post. Dude, are you sure you’re sober? 😕 Again… you are trying to quote my posts out of context or diminish their value. You called him a liar for saying you are either 3P or scum. He’s only a liar if he KNOWS that you are town. Your post took the position that when you flip it will reveal he was lying. From that position, he wouldn’t be a liar necessarily, he could just be wrong. Even if he is scum, he has no way of knowing you are town and not a member of the opposing scum team. Without knowledge of information contrary to his statement, he cannot be a liar. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/886 "2017-01-22T03:55:41Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > That’s what’s called an opinion, not a lie. I think if you aren’t one you are the other, ergo I don’t believe you are vanilla. It’s not, though. “I believe you are scum” is an opinion. “you are scum” is a fact. there is a difference. Regardless, your beliefs are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/887 "2017-01-22T03:57:32Z")
This is as deep as I’m going to dig. Seriously, look at the bandwagoneers on my votes. Peace out, and good luck town. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/888 "2017-01-22T03:57:36Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > This whole Crys and brewha thing is so weird. I actually wasn’t all that upset about brewha’s lie, but the Crys thing makes me really want brewha dead. Mainly because Crys really _doesn’t_ want brewha dead. > > **vote brewha** Why are you voting **brewha** over **Crys**? You state that this is because Crys doesn’t want him dead. But without any idea of why Crys wants him dead, you can’t make any sensible conclusions. For example, suppose Crys flips vanilla town (unlikely I know. But bear with me). Then she is just a misguided townie with no information on brewha. If she flips hostile third party or scum then her defence of him is significant. If she flips non hostile third party then the implications for brewha are less clear. Either way, you can’t use Crys desire to save him as evidence without knowing something about Crys. So, why are you voting brewha over Crys? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/889 "2017-01-22T03:58:40Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > You’re better off to leave the fuck ups and post again to correct them. Editing looks scummy as hell. > > Yes, I do understand the irony of this post. Dude, we’re almost 900 posts. Do you really want me to pad another 30 with nonsensical ridiculous crap? The mods say it’s ok. I’m fixing my shit. Plus, I really don’t buy that scum, with allowed dayyap on their own board, would use post editing to further their scumplots. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/890 "2017-01-22T03:59:01Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Seriously, you’re not helping town. I’m going to be lynched - stop trying to convince me I’m scum - it’s not going to work. > > I have no reason to “belive” you’re not simply misguided town. Stop being misguided. Saying “stop being misguided” is not going to change my mind. If you don’t want me to respond to your posts, then why do you keep quoting mine. I’m trying to make sure you understand why I think you are scum. And I’m not alone, but you seem to think it’s my bad playing that is a detriment to town. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/891 "2017-01-22T04:07:42Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > It’s not, though. > “I believe you are scum” is an opinion. > > “you are scum” is a fact. > > there is a difference. > > Regardless, your beliefs are wrong. Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. “You are scum” is only a fact if you are scum. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/892 "2017-01-22T04:10:16Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Well your certainly a cultists, by your own admission, which I believe. So without a clear cut scum to murder, you gotta go. Which is too bad because even though I’ve only played 1 other game with ya, I’m sure you’re a weirdo. A weirdo I enjoy having around. Well considering I am not working I will be around more mostly on the giraffe though Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/893 "2017-01-22T04:11:38Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > It’s not, though. > “I believe you are scum” is an opinion. > > “you are scum” is a fact. > > there is a difference. > > Regardless, your beliefs are wrong. If someone has always been taught that tomatoes are vegetables and they said, “Tomatoes are vegetables.” That would not make them a liar, it would make them wrong. Lying is an act of deception. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/894 "2017-01-22T04:13:52Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. “You are scum” is only a fact if you are scum. Thank you… I’m not alone. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/895 "2017-01-22T04:14:51Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > This confuses me a little - I would have characterized your cult (and I think I already did) as a cult of survivors. As long as one of you survives to the end, you win with whoever else wins. According to you. > > Now, I see nothing weird about you picking someone randomly. In the Game of Discworld Lovers (my 1st game) we had to find our lovers. The first night, I thought I had seen a breadcrumb, and I was wrong. So after that I struck out randomly. It seems like the LUTHA would be able to breadcrumb pretty easily, becasue the rest of us didn’t know they even existed. But I get the randomness too. In that sense you might be right lol that post was me being frustrated and blowing off some steam. Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Klutz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captain_klutz/32/4993_2.png) [@Captain\_Klutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Klutz)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/896 "2017-01-22T04:15:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Okay, here is a Proposed Plan, which we may not have time to implement anyway. It could theoretically be implemented tomorrow. > > Step 1: We need one of the other four cultists to claim. > Step 2: We lynch **that** cultist. Sorry, cultist, but you win if any of your buddies survive. Why that one and not Crys? Lynching Crys would not verify the buddy, but lynching the buddy (and getting a cultist flip) would verify Crys. Sorry, unnamed buddy, but you still win if one of the cultists survive. We honor your sacrifice. > Step 3: ToMorrow, all cultists reveal. > Step 4: ToMorrow, all Masons reveal. > > Now we have a block of eight players - half of whom we can trust explicitly and half of whom are mean dogs on leashes - that we can use. If the cultists do anything hinky, we can lynch or let the vig kill them off. > > Scum could begin night-killing out of the Mason/Cultist pool, but it would take time to empty it, and would give us a lot of breathing room. > > This may be a bad plan, and even if it’s not a bad plan it requires a third-party player to sacrifice themselves. So I’m probably just spitballing. I like this plan, except I don’t see the need for the masons to claim. If this cult does exist and is non hostile then it is actually good for them to get into the open and confirmed. However, they can’t really risk that until they know they will be confirmed as non hostile. Also, the plan requires that a fellow member has already investigated Crys, which is unlikely. So toMorrow would be the earliest we could try this, although Crys may not survive that long. So leave this plan on the backburner for now. ---
**Author:** ![Crys75](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3da27b/32.png) [@Crys75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crys75)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/897 "2017-01-22T04:16:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Klutz](#): > > Why are you voting **brewha** over **Crys**? > > You state that this is because Crys doesn’t want him dead. But without any idea of why Crys wants him dead, you can’t make any sensible conclusions. > > For example, suppose Crys flips vanilla town (unlikely I know. But bear with me). Then she is just a misguided townie with no information on brewha. > > If she flips hostile third party or scum then her defence of him is significant. > > If she flips non hostile third party then the implications for brewha are less clear. > > Either way, you can’t use Crys desire to save him as evidence without knowing something about Crys. > > So, why are you voting brewha over Crys? Has everyone misses that I hedged after my mistake and I’m now voting brewha Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/898 "2017-01-22T04:33:36Z")
OMG I’m actually caught up. Lots to ruminate about. If I had been able to participate more the last couple days I would have argued for not lynching any of the switch claimers and letting the scum or Vig take care of them for us, but that ship has clearly sailed. I am inclined to think that I will move my vote tomorrow in such a way as to maximuze the chance of resolving both brewha and crys. I think Paul’s theory about brewha’s scum motivation fails not only for the reason mentioned above --that the other switch holder, if Town, would have had no reason to counterclaim – but also because I think if scum were going to try that, they would have tried to out the switcher of a role more dangerous to scum. Paul points out that the Vig shooting wildly would have a 1/4 chance of hitting scum, but from the point of view of either scum team, it’s only 1/8. That’s a 7/8 chance of the Vig kill helping their wincon; an investigator is much more dangerous. Going to take a hot bath and ruminate, then post more. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/899 "2017-01-22T04:34:58Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > Thats at least three. Apparently edits are kosher in this game. Had I known that, I would have edited out that simple phrase and we wouldn’t have wasted a day focused on lynching town. I believe it was in the rules, that editing is ok at least for the mods. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/900 "2017-01-22T04:36:01Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I believe it was in the rules, that editing is ok at least for the mods. By that I mean, the mods are fine with the players editing, whether or not players are is another story… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=46)