# Mafia Reunion - Day Two **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425 "2017-01-17T22:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1181 "2017-01-23T17:08:43Z")
And I just saw **paulwhoisaghost** ’s mention of the fake cover roles from scum that I hadn’t thought about. That is a consideration to take into account. I still find it unlikely, but it is something we should consider. Though, it raises the issue of do both scum teams have knowledge of this? It would seem they’d have to in order to keep the teams balanced. If not, what other compensation is given to the other team? And if only one team has it, could this be some elaborate plot by a scummy sachertorte and Crys? I doubt it, but it is something to keep in the back of our minds as a possiblity. Still, I think the simpler explanation should be our assumption for now. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1182 "2017-01-23T17:13:18Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > it would be a huge gamble for a scummy sachertorte to have done this. There’s a lot of risk for not much gain at this point. Especially because you claim you haven’t had your power used up yet. And sachertorte was under no pressure. Which means all you would have to do is investigate him and out him as lying scum, buying your cult increased chances of town being willing to work with you and scum being down one number. Your post poses that a scummy Sach wouldn’t risk Crys investigating them. In this scenario, a scummy Sach wouldn’t be risking getting investigated by Crys if the scum team kills Crys. I don’t know if that is what is going on… I just think that if you are going to pose the scenario than it should be considered. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1183 "2017-01-23T17:14:39Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > And I just saw **paulwhoisaghost** ’s mention of the fake cover roles from scum that I hadn’t thought about. That is a consideration to take into account. I still find it unlikely, but it is something we should consider. > > Though, it raises the issue of do both scum teams have knowledge of this? It would seem they’d have to in order to keep the teams balanced. If not, what other compensation is given to the other team? And if only one team has it, could this be some elaborate plot by a scummy sachertorte and Crys? I doubt it, but it is something to keep in the back of our minds as a possiblity. > > Still, I think the simpler explanation should be our assumption for now. That wasn’t me Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1184 "2017-01-23T17:18:44Z")
If you guys are going to lynch non-participants, scraping the bottom of the barrel is a bad plan… you should be looking at people who have posted but not contributed. Take Prof P for example… I haven’t seen much in the way of gameplay from him. He’s playing other thread games actively, but not posting cases in here. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1185 "2017-01-23T17:28:13Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > And I just saw **paulwhoisaghost** ’s mention of the fake cover roles from scum that I hadn’t thought about. That is a consideration to take into account. I still find it unlikely, but it is something we should consider. It’s was Crys. > [@Crys75](#): > > Neta and if scum were given our pms as cover it would be easy to plant their breadcrumbs > > Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk @Sachertorte, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to be suspicious of your claim when a claimed cultist is also posing the possibility that you could be scum. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1186 "2017-01-23T17:31:21Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > In the bolded portion above, you say that Sach stuck their neck out to save Crys. But here… > > Sach specifically says they didn’t think Crys was in danger anymore. > > But you didn’t comment on that… they seem contradictory to me… how do you interpret it? The “stuck out your neck” portion by which I mean claiming. If he didn’t think \*\*Crys \*\*was in danger, and he’s a survivor, why not just stay silent and allow the lynch to happen and let \*\*Chrys \*\*go into the night? He chose to put himself and his so called ‘survivor’ win condition at risk by making himself visible at a time when he didn’t need to. -Why would he do that? -My thoughts are still going back to the idea of a Cult needing a recruitment mechanism. -The Scum are unlikely to kill off the Cultists tonight, they’re just great lynch WIFOM. And already we have \*\*Klutz \*\*asking the vig to spare the cultists so that the Town has to waste a lynch on them instead. It makes me uneasy. MY thoughts on why this isn’t good: If the cultists DO need to recruit each other- there’s 3 of them out there now who know exactly who to target. We go into Day3 with at least each of these cultists likely to know 1 or more of their members now. \*\*Sach \*\*and \*\*Chrys \*\*didn’t mention if BOTH cult members know the other is cultist when investigated, but if so, they’re going to be able to form a mason-esque voting block real quick with the unknown cultists quickly and quietly becoming known to \*\*Sach \*\*or \*\*Chrys \*\*(and now with 2 cultists out in the open, there’s a greater chance of at least one of them surviving til dawn). -And I still fear the “if X number of cultists get together, they unlock a power/New Win Mechanism” ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1187 "2017-01-23T17:51:16Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I can’t even. WTF? > How is it our fault that you failed to show up until the end of the day. I didn’t realize that we must defer to your busy schedule, but our lack of a time machine to vote for you earlier in the day, _while you were missing_, is somehow unfair to you. > > It is my belief that the only reason you didn’t have more votes earlier in the day is because you were on deck to be mod-killed. I believe I stated as much. And I believe it had already been posted in the thread that I would be first up for lynch on Day 3. Which I even agreed to and acknowledged that scrutiny. To try to rile up a 12 hour rush bandwagon against me is a terrible usage of the Town’s chances to investigate and to check out a player’s potential defense. –It’s more of a scummy tactic to try to kill off a power role or to force a claim out of someone who may not be able to defend themselves as well. That’s why I find it so scummy. Because if it’s town, it’s ShitTown playing strategies to try to force a lynch when you have future days to properly conduct business. –Though I know in your case it’s not ShitTown play. It’s actually malicious. You’re not claiming Town, and so there it is. Your feigned annoyance means nothing to me, Cultist. > [@](#): > > That he is getting end of day votes is a combination of the realization that the brewha train is terrible and his taking himself out of mod-kill candidacy. I believe I responded to this via **Raventhief** ’s questions. IF I wanted to take myself out of mod-kill candidacy and avoid being scrutinized, I could do what **Hal** ’s doing. The mods have stated the ModKills happen at Dawn. Posting in the night would save my bacon and saved me heat. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Just a point of order - I feel like discussing strategy while scum is discussing their nightkills may not be optimal. I agree with this generally on principle (N0 being the one exception usually), but I have to post when I can find the time. Like I took a sick day today, and so I’m free during the day to post right now, and weekends are better for me than weekdays. So :Shrug: > [@sachertorte](#): > > ONE person. That one person doesn’t have to be me and it doesn’t have to be Crys. This is important. What’s to Stop \*\*Chrys \*\*(or **Sach** ) from actually finding a fellow cultist. And then telling us that **X** is NOT a cultist to keep them going as a Vanilla Townie or such? That’s again my cultist issue. We cannot trust their investigations to benefit the Town. -R ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1188 "2017-01-23T17:52:00Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > If you guys are going to lynch non-participants, scraping the bottom of the barrel is a bad plan… you should be looking at people who have posted but not contributed. > > Take Prof P for example… I haven’t seen much in the way of gameplay from him. He’s playing other thread games actively, but not posting cases in here. > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Sigh. I’ve repeatedly stated my case on **Sario**. He’s only posted fluff, and he didn’t vote on D1 or D2. That’s anti-Town, and may well be Scum. I have seen him play more actively. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1189 "2017-01-23T17:58:39Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > MY thoughts on why this isn’t good: > If the cultists DO need to recruit each other- there’s 3 of them out there now who know exactly who to target. The moderators said there is no recruitment in this game. It’s in the rules. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1190 "2017-01-23T18:25:39Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > The moderators said there is no recruitment in this game. It’s in the rules. Sorry, change it to identifying. Recruiting means turning a non-Cultist to a cultist. I mean cultists needing to locate other cultists to unlock a WinCon or a Power. Now they have a big beacon on who to investigate (And again, still curious about do they both know so and so is a cultist or is it a chain? Example: X and Y are cultists. -X investigates Y. Does only X know Y is a cultist and now can no longer investigate? Seems like a weak and odd power. -X investigates Y. X and Y know each other is a cultist. And Y still has his power seems more likely to be the case. Then I’d wonder if Y finds a cultist Z, do X, Y, Z all know, or only Y knows that X and Z are cultists. Again, i guess I’m unfamiliar with the chain sorta thing. Has that been the meta recently? That sort of a chaining role? Because knowing a maximum of 2 fellow survivors, that just strikes me as there’s something more to the powers/ability. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1191 "2017-01-23T19:04:53Z")
Too much blue. Sorry brewha. I agree that two cultists are about as confirmed as they can get without a death flip and shall leave them to play along probationarily for now. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1192 "2017-01-23T19:12:27Z")
I’m sorry I missed the second of D2. There’s been a pair of deaths in my wife’s family, and it’s hard to concentrate on things right now. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1193 "2017-01-23T19:14:42Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I don’t dismiss them. But they don’t overcome the other issues I have with the claim. Those other issues bug me even after I remind myself about the breadcrumbs. The amount of deep diving it would take to ensure the info in the breadcrumbs wasn’t available prior to then is overwhelming. Overwhelming? Really? > [@Biotop](#): > > Well, I was sort of hoping to put \*\*sachertorte \*\* on the spot, but he is apparently not here this evening. > > Here’s what I was going to ask him: > > Is it possible that the unexplained fire in the game text comes from a LUTHA member? \*\*crys75 \*\* posted a PM that describes her 3rd party role as non-hostile. Is there any reason to believe that is the case for all LUTHA? Not in my estimation. I only know what is in my role PM and there is no indication of such a thing. > [@](#): > > If the fire comes from a third party member that is not LUTHA, that would mean we’d have at least 6 third party players. Maybe this theoretical 6th person (an arsonist?) has a win condition of killing a certain number of players or killing certain roles or who knows what. Your speculation is as good as mine. > [@](#): > > But the thought occurred to me tonight that maybe there is a crazed member of the cult or a nutty cult leader. A cult leader might even already know who is in the cult. That player might be trying to hasten along the wincon game for LUTHA by killing SK or arson style. The other clueless cult members would not necessarily even need to know. > > Of course the “fire” in the text color could just be a red herring. Maybe no fire player exists. But if there _is_ a third party fire person on the loose, why couldn’t they be LUTHA? I have no reason to believe that is the case. > [@](#): > > It also seems possible that the members of LUTHA, who seem to have unique role names, “Second Deacon” for example, might have different powers. I have no reason to believe that is the case, but I have no explicit statement from the mods that it is not the case. > [@](#): > > So I think I may have been a tad hasty in waving off the problem of LUTHA. That’s up to you. > [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > I’m not preemptively blaming you for Crys’s death, I’m explaining why I’m more suspicious of you than of Crys. I don’t know you are telling the truth. If I consider you could be lying, one reason could be that you are scum. If you follow the logic that you are scum and are false claiming to group yourself with the cultists, then it would make sense that your scum team would kill Crys to stop Crys from investigating and outing you. True, other cultists could investigate and out you, but they risk wasting their investigation if you are telling the truth. Even if they do investigate you, they would have to out themselves to tell us that you are lying. If you are lying, this is a possibility. > > This is how I play the game. I look at what people say and figure out what all possible scenarios are and then try to rule them out based on available evidence. Right now the only evidence supporting your claim are your breadcrumbs. That’s pretty good evidence, but it doesn’t entirely rule out you being lying scum, it just makes it unlikely. I’m okay with that. Just keep things in perspective, that’s all I ask. > [@Crys75](#): > > Neta and if scum were given our pms as cover it would be easy to plant their breadcrumbs Crys, if scum were given the cultist PM then your claim goes out the window too. And that could explain why you posted your role PM so that the real cultists couldn’t use it to handshake! See? I can be irrationally paranoid too. At some point you have to dismiss the unlikely paranoid thoughts, because that would be a shitty game design. > [@ToeJam](#): > > Though I know in your case it’s not ShitTown play. It’s actually malicious. You’re not claiming Town, and so there it is. Your feigned annoyance means nothing to me, Cultist. And your feigned outrage means nothing to me scum. Are you actually asserting that lynching you instead of brewha would have been worse for Town? I’m not seeing any evidence of that. How is dead brewha holding the Batman switch better than dead ToeJam? You are way too high on your importance. All the other vanilla Townies we’ve encountered were much more grounded (even too grounded) in their assessment of their own importance. So here’s what I think about ToeJam: - He got caught early being way too nice and deferential to people – people who if he were Town, would not know were Town. - Now he’s being as aggressive and dickish as possible to compensate. Specifically to me, because I’m a soft target. More importantly, he’s not risking picking a fight with someone who is likely to be Town. In other words, he’s scum and he doesn’t want to fight with his teammates and drag them down with him, and he doesn’t want to pick a fight with a Townie. - No, I’m not Town. I’ve stated as much. But I have way more proof that I’m not scum than ToeJam does. - Compare ToeJam to Lakai and Colby and brewha. How did Lakai react to being lynched? How did Colby react to almost being lynched? How did brewha react to being lynched? Now, I don’t know ToeJam all that well. We’ve played before, but I don’t have a strong recollection of behavior or character type. And ToeJam is a unique snowflake and all that, so he isn’t required to behave the same way as Lakai Colby and brewha, but his behavior is notably different. - And if foisting strategy on others is in play, I’d say that if ToeJam were truly a vanilla Townie, then he should have taken the Mod-kill and be done with it. That honestly would have been the best result of a Townie ToeJam at this point. Now Town ‘has’ to use a Lynch on ToeJam. I don’t see any other resolution to ToeJam. - ToeJam is damaged goods. To a large degree ToeJam ducked getting lynched D1 by being absent, then ducked getting mod killed by showing up late to Day 2. Is there anyone here who thinks ToeJam should live to endgame? Is there anyone here who thinks scum will kill ToeJam? What, exactly do you expect Town to do with you ToeJam? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1194 "2017-01-23T19:18:01Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > I’m sorry I missed the second of D2. There’s been a pair of deaths in my wife’s family, and it’s hard to concentrate on things right now. I’m sorry. That sucks. ---
**Author:** ![paulwhoisaghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e5b9ba/32.png) [@paulwhoisaghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulwhoisaghost)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1195 "2017-01-23T20:20:30Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Sigh. I’ve repeatedly stated my case on **Sario**. He’s only posted fluff, and he didn’t vote on D1 or D2. That’s anti-Town, and may well be Scum. I have seen him play more actively. If your only contribution is to point fingers at people contributing even less than you are then I don’t feel you are really contributing. You justify low contribution by pointing to your case against one player. There are more than twice the number of players as a standard game still in play. Why focus on one player and call it a day? Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1196 "2017-01-23T20:23:53Z")
> [@paulwhoisaghost](#): > > If your only contribution is to point fingers at people contributing even less than you are then I don’t feel you are really contributing. You justify low contribution by pointing to your case against one player. There are more than twice the number of players as a standard game still in play. Why focus on one player and call it a day? > > Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk My low posting this last Day was due to RL events. Nothing too serious, but kept me from reading in depth. D3 I sincerely plan on posting more, with higher content. But I’m still voting for Sario initially. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1197 "2017-01-23T20:32:46Z")
Worth a shot: Mods, will you confirm or deny that scum were given cover PMs? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1198 "2017-01-23T20:38:39Z")
The red herring about color aside, I think Biotop has made an important point. Even if we assume that crys and sach are being completely truthful, that doesn’t rule out the possibility that other Luthaans don’t have potentially anti-Town powers or even secret exclusive wincons, like Penguin in the Batman game. I don’t think this is immediately relevant, but it certainly needs to be kept in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1199 "2017-01-23T21:07:17Z")
@Johnny Bravo: in this game, one scum team or the other is ALWAYS choosing who to kill. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425/1200 "2017-01-23T21:21:06Z")
Re: sach’s analysis of Toejam. He’s playing now, and I thought he did good analysis of the cult situation. I still have a slight scum lean on him, but I am not going to decide on Night Two that he can’t possibly be allowed to survive until endgame, and I’m not going to be gunning for him first thing Tomorrow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-day-two/777425.md?page=61)