# Mafia Reunion Game Over: Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [April 4, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710 "2017-04-04T02:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/61 "2017-04-04T16:41:05Z")
Thanks for the game. So I stopped playing ~5 years ago, because I no longer had the time or desire to go through pages of posts searching for scum. I was curious if that passion had come back, and the answer is sadly no. Slogging through days of posts was more work than fun. Johnny Bravo repeatedly called me out for lack of follow-through, but it wasn’t a scum tell, it was just a sign that my burn-out hasn’t subsided. I may play a smaller game at some point to see if I can handle a game of a lesser scope, but probably not any time soon. On the other hand, I still find designing games to be interesting, so I’m much more likely to partake on that side of things. I have a half finished Cosmere/Mistborn game built that maybe I’ll run this summer. If anyone wants to help that, I’m open to collaboration. I also have thoughts on this game, which I’ll get to in the next post. As for my game play, I’m okay with when I claimed. I could have breadcrumbed a little more, but I wasn’t really thinking I would be alive for it to matter. Fake claiming the Patsy just seemed to be a terrible idea in this game. In retrospect I probably should have claimed one day sooner, but I wasn’t expecting a mod kill on the last wolf. Even still, I’m not sure it was a good ploy by the mafia and it worked out fine for town in the end. As a caveat, I was under the assumption that my revenge kill was part of the lynch and could not be blocked, so if that was ruled differently it might have changed things. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/62 "2017-04-04T17:05:52Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > As a caveat, I was under the assumption that my revenge kill was part of the lynch and could not be blocked, so if that was ruled differently it might have changed things. Mafia never actually asked us which surprised me, but we had ruled earlier (in private) that it was unblockable. Towards end game I realized that we should have been more explicit about that, but having it be unblockable is really the only way it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/63 "2017-04-04T17:08:02Z")
Overall, I enjoyed the game. But the blocks were irritating. By themselves, they weren’t bad, but when combined with the large number of kills, they basically neutralized many of the power roles (of all factions). The number of successful actions before death was too low under these conditions. If you’re going to have a large number of kills, extra blocks on top of that are unnecessary, because kills are (permanent) blocks. What permitted town to win was they had enough bodies (i.e., mislynches) to extend the game until information could be gained the old-fashioned way through posts and votes. On another note: cross-kills are a necessary component in multi-faction games. Town couldn’t win unless mafia, wolves, and lutha helped kill/lynch non-town. Mafia couldn’t win unless town, wolves, and lutha helped kill/lynch non-mafia. Etc. My play time is limited, but I still feel the call of the game. 😃 I think as long as we, as a group, are accepting of low bandwidth players, a lot of us can still play. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/64 "2017-04-04T17:18:53Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > My play time is limited, but I still feel the call of the game. 😃 I think as long as we, as a group, are accepting of low bandwidth players, a lot of us can still play. I agree. I didn’t used to think this way, but my Mafia philosophy has changed a lot in the past year. If you play as much as you can, that should be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/65 "2017-04-04T17:25:26Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Mafia never actually asked us which surprised me, but we had ruled earlier (in private) that it was unblockable. Towards end game I realized that we should have been more explicit about that, but having it be unblockable is really the only way it makes sense. This shocks me. Why wouldn’t the Patsy role not be blockable? How were we to know this? Why would we even ask? ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/66 "2017-04-04T17:26:11Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Overall, I enjoyed the game. > > But the blocks were irritating. By themselves, they weren’t bad, but when combined with the large number of kills, they basically neutralized many of the power roles (of all factions). The number of successful actions before death was too low under these conditions. If you’re going to have a large number of kills, extra blocks on top of that are unnecessary, because kills are (permanent) blocks. > > What permitted town to win was they had enough bodies (i.e., mislynches) to extend the game until information could be gained the old-fashioned way through posts and votes. > > On another note: cross-kills are a necessary component in multi-faction games. Town couldn’t win unless mafia, wolves, and lutha helped kill/lynch non-town. Mafia couldn’t win unless town, wolves, and lutha helped kill/lynch non-mafia. Etc. > > . See, I feel like all of that worked more or less like we wanted it to. Now, the secrecy over the switches was a mistake. It added extra confusion that was not actually conducive to conversation which was the opposite if what it was intended to do. I think the biggest design flaw was we had one killing role too few and one scum member per team too few. I think if Mahaloth and (maybe Story if he’s in? If not we will need a third mod) and I do this again next year I would like to run the same basic game with tweaks to the third party (LUTHA were great, but you can’t pull that twice) and maybe a removal of switches. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/67 "2017-04-04T17:29:40Z")
To everyone: Skål! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/68 "2017-04-04T17:37:09Z")
Oh, and I can’t be certain because I was spoiled, but I think **Biotop** ’s last-Day pleading would actually have turned me hard against him. On that last Day, **Johnny Bravo** just kept on digging, building up point after point to add to his case against **Biotop**. **Biotop** , meanwhile, basically just said repeatedly “I know I’m not Scum, therefore I’m completely certain that **Johnny** is, and you all should be certain too, and it doesn’t matter which order you lynch the two of us in, and therefore you absolutely must lynch him first”. I’m always, on any Day, inclined to favor those who build detailed cases (even those that later turn out to be wrong, like **Johnny** ’s case against **Hawkeyeop** ), and against those who build weak, wishy-washy cases. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/69 "2017-04-04T17:40:17Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > This shocks me. Why wouldn’t the Patsy role not be blockable? How were we to know this? Why would we even ask? I couldn’t understand your patsy gambit. If you thought you could avoid the revenge kill, it makes a lot more sense. On the other hand it made it much more difficult to explain why I could be counter-claimed. I am amused you that you studied my posting times, which I wouldn’t even know. I guess I’m more likely to post at work in the morning before getting swamped by other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/70 "2017-04-04T18:09:44Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Thanks for the game. > > So I stopped playing ~5 years ago, because I no longer had the time or desire to go through pages of posts searching for scum. I was curious if that passion had come back, and the answer is sadly no. Slogging through days of posts was more work than fun. Johnny Bravo repeatedly called me out for lack of follow-through, but it wasn’t a scum tell, it was just a sign that my burn-out hasn’t subsided. I may play a smaller game at some point to see if I can handle a game of a lesser scope, but probably not any time soon. > > On the other hand, I still find designing games to be interesting, so I’m much more likely to partake on that side of things. I have a half finished Cosmere/Mistborn game built that maybe I’ll run this summer. If anyone wants to help that, I’m open to collaboration. I also have thoughts on this game, which I’ll get to in the next post. > > As for my game play, I’m okay with when I claimed. I could have breadcrumbed a little more, but I wasn’t really thinking I would be alive for it to matter. Fake claiming the Patsy just seemed to be a terrible idea in this game. In retrospect I probably should have claimed one day sooner, but I wasn’t expecting a mod kill on the last wolf. Even still, I’m not sure it was a good ploy by the mafia and it worked out fine for town in the end. As a caveat, I was under the assumption that my revenge kill was part of the lynch and could not be blocked, so if that was ruled differently it might have changed things. I’m sort of in the same boat as you - it’s the backlog of posts that keeps me from really hunting things down. I would be interested in hosting, and I’m well read on Sanderson, to boot! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/71 "2017-04-04T18:33:11Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > 1. See, I feel like all of that worked more or less like we wanted it to. Now, the secrecy over the switches was a mistake. It added extra confusion that was not actually conducive to conversation which was the opposite if what it was intended to do. > > 2. I think the biggest design flaw was we had one killing role too few and one scum member per team too few. I think if Mahaloth and (maybe Story if he’s in? If not we will need a third mod) and I do this again next year I would like to run the same basic game with tweaks to the third party (LUTHA were great, but you can’t pull that twice) and maybe a removal of switches. 1. The switches were part of an open setup game I played on Giraffe. I meant for them to be open here, but we had so many balls in the air by the time January 1 was heading towards us, they ended up being non-open. It was an error for sure. They are intended to add another layer of strategy, thinking, and discussion to the game. 2. I suggest we start planning “Reunion 2” around June 1st or so. Gives us a nice break and provides plenty of time. I don’t know about you, NAF, but I felt panicked due to the game starting when it did. We were basically ready. We just were not “100% ready”. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/72 "2017-04-04T18:47:45Z")
Yay! Go town! Thanks moderators for running this nightmare. Well done by the remaining townies who brought it home. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/73 "2017-04-04T18:52:05Z")
Awesome game, everyone. Thanks to the mods and all the players! That Bravo/Biotop clash of the titans at the end was the stuff of legends. BTW, as you know if you’ve read the wolf board, I didn’t show up there to announce myself until late Day One, so I actually was using the same scum strategy that I was accusing Pleonast of using! And I felt there was a pretty good chance that he was Mafia doing the same thing. I think it’s a good strategy, though I was surprised at how freaked out my teammates were getting about it. And then I didn’t have the guts to follow through on the suspicion of Boozy which I formed while playing blind, and Biotop totally caught that. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/74 "2017-04-04T18:59:07Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Random thoughts: > > \*This game has changed my outlook on Mafia in one very strong way. I really do apologize to Chronos and Normal Phase. It is cowardly to remove an opponent merely because they are good. Strategy, misdirection or a genuine attempt to stop someone who is on the right track… those are all good reasons for a Scum kill. But no one should be killed just because you fear them. That punishes good players. The best way to defeat a good player is just to play better yourself! I will never support again as Town or Scum any kill based solely on fear that another player is better than I am. If I cannot win with my wits, I should not win. That seems odd to me. It’s a pretty basic Scum strategy to try to weed out the good players, and I don’t see anything unfair about it. Thought experiment: would you, as Town, vote for someone at endgame because they have clearly been the most experienced player in the game for several Days, yet haven’t been NKed? Besides, meta-meta-gaming, that would basically mean the newbies would always die first, and they would get frustrated and not stick around. > [@Biotop](#): > > One more: > > It is very frustrating that my case on Zeriel turned out to be right. It was made up on the fly just to make a case. Then I just stuck with it for three Days. We did not want to kill wolves, we wanted to kill Town. I cannot believe that crummy case turned out to be right. Grr. Sorry, Zeriel. > > We also did not intend to kill wolf when we Day killed jsgoddess. We thought she was a Town cop. I didn’t even much believe the Boozahol case either. This is a funny game. And here I was about to shower you with admiration for your brilliant cases on two Wolves! ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/75 "2017-04-04T19:02:18Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I had a thought about abstaining for the rest of the game. But then there was the whole ‘I want to play and have fun thing.’ > > Strong agree. It was interesting to see play out, but 6 weeks of that was plenty for me. It certainly opened my eyes to the benefits of having a fun win condition. Prior to having played the role, I don’t think I would have thought the win condition problematic. It certainly was an attainable win condition (not any harder than the others, at least), but I hadn’t realized the stifling nature of walking that line. Yeah, it seemed to me that optimal play for claimed LUTHA would be to just quit playing and voting entirely, removing any incentive for scum to kill you. Roles whose optimal strategy is to have no fun probably shouldn’t be used. BTW, the solo Lutha winning scenario is 1 Town, 1 Lutha, 1 Mafia. Mafia gets lynched and uses the daykill on Town. I guess it would actually work for any number of Lutha. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/76 "2017-04-04T19:16:59Z")
From the Mafia board: \*\*Texcat:\*\*Hehe. ThingFish post 196: People I think seem Townie: Sunny Daze, Biotop, Hooker Chem, sinjin, Capt. Klutz, Guiri. I go back and forth between Town and null on snfaulkner. Does this mean that Hooker, Sinjin, and CaptK are wolves? \*\*Biotop:\*\*Thingfish. Let’s not kill him. [/QUOTE] …said every scum ever. Even giving myself credit for snfaulkner, I still couldn’t get even half my Town reads to be actual Town? Ouch.:o ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/77 "2017-04-04T19:17:58Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I think the biggest design flaw was we had one killing role too few and one scum member per team too few. I think if Mahaloth and (maybe Story if he’s in? If not we will need a third mod) and I do this again next year I would like to run the same basic game with tweaks to the third party (LUTHA were great, but you can’t pull that twice) and maybe a removal of switches. If I could make one change, I’d add a mechanism to allow Wolves and Mafia to talk to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/78 "2017-04-04T19:44:05Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > If I could make one change, I’d add a mechanism to allow Wolves and Mafia to talk to each other. Really? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/79 "2017-04-04T19:59:25Z")
I like it. Very pro-Scum, so maybe not add extra scum team members. Creates the possibility of coordinated actions, with subsequent betrayals. Mostly, that chat would be really fun to read after the game is over! I remember an old game with **peeker** and somebody else ( **Dante?** ) as SKs competing to see who could kill the most…they had a dedicated thread for taunting each other which was really amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710/80 "2017-04-04T20:27:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Thing Fish** : > > BTW, the solo Lutha winning scenario is 1 Town, 1 Lutha, 1 Mafia. Mafia gets lynched and uses the daykill on Town. I guess it would actually work for any number of Lutha. Under the rules as actually presented, that’s a shared win for Town and Lutha. The moderators agreed in their setup thread that they ought to add “…and at least one Town alive” to the Town victory conditions, but they never actually did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-game-over-goodbye-farewell-and-amen-edited-title/783710.md?page=5)