# Mafia Reunion - NIGHT ZERO **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315 "2017-01-04T16:43:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/201 "2017-01-05T19:57:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I’m not a fan of talking much before the game starts, because anything we could say before the game starts, we could instead say after, too, and the game needs people talking on Day 1 (and on all other Days, too, of course). Best not to use up the discussion topics before they’re needed. > > This probably doesn’t need to be said, but the only time no-lynch is a good idea is in certain endgame scenarios, for instance, to engineer 2 vs. 1 instead of 3 vs. 1. Yes, the Day 1 lynch usually hits a Townie, but we need the information. > > Speaking of information: Multi-lynch without multi-vote is problematic for Town, because it muddles the voting information. The best scenario, information-wise, is where everyone votes for the person they think most likely to be Scum, and if people are voting just to engineer a particular vote total for a multi-lynch, we don’t have that. It’s not too relevant yet, since we only get one lynch on Day 1 anyway, but unless we have two targets who are both uncontroversial (Detective reveals, or the like), or we’re really desperate, I don’t think we should ever try to engineer a multi-lynch. If, however, one happens naturally, we’ll roll with it. Disagree. More scum at risk means more information. If the third person on the lynch list is scum, and three votes means lynched while 2 votes doesn’t, what do fellow scum do? It adds more tension to the scum and I’m expecting it to be a pro-town mechanic overall. I played with a somewhat similar mechanic recently (top three vote getters enter runoff), and vote movement around a not-then-lynch scum member on day one led more or less directly to my vote on a teammate on day three. I feel like you didn’t really think this through. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/202 "2017-01-05T20:05:48Z")
**Hitman: What happens if Hitman (or Outrider) targets a self-protecting Doc? Explicitly states ‘your target will survive’ and ‘the player doing the protecting will die’.** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/203 "2017-01-05T20:07:56Z")
Since Miller is known to be a role in the game, the Patsy should strongly consider claiming, IMO, and basically be confirmed town (no advantage to scum claiming it b/c real one will counter claim). The small chance of getting lynched for a free vig, is that worth it? One thing I noticed recently in a “similar” three-faction setup – I think there’s an inherent bias to lynching town in a game like this. Since both scum factions will tend to avoid voting their own team members, but both will have no hesitation in voting for a lynch-bait townie. We might depend more than ordinarily on the vig and on cross-kills to get the ball rolling. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/204 "2017-01-05T20:10:54Z")
And I’m really tempted to just shut up now until day one begins. I want to get started, but having ten days of posting to read through for a day one that effectively includes night zero would be sort of ridiculous. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/205 "2017-01-05T20:15:59Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > **Hawkeyeop** 😕 Wouldn’t you say the game is a “little” unfair to Town to begin with? I’m not sure at all where to put this this… But it’s non-town. This has less town motivation than **ToeJam** > . > \*\*Why shouldn’t the game tilt toward pro-town? \*\* Okay. let me put this more simply. I don’t think the game should start until everyone gets their roles. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/206 "2017-01-05T20:16:55Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > I’m reading over the list of roles, and while I see three different roles that can turn switches on or off, I see no other references to what the hell a switch might be in this game. There were switches in Mahaloth’s Hotel of Heroes 2 game. How it worked there was that there were three Town power roles, and three Scum. Each Scum had a switch which could be used each Night to turn a particular power role off. The SK also had switches for all three, which could reverse the action of the Scum switches. So, the Town power would work if NEITHER Scum nor SK flipped their switch, or if BOTH did, but not if only one did. All switches reset to On at the start of each Night. Since Scum and the SK obviously couldn’t very well coordinate their actions in the game thread, the effect was that it was a WIFOM situation in which each Town power had basically a 50% chance of working on any given Night. But once either the relevant Scum or the SK died, the remaining anti-Town switcher could always turn the power off. This game is obviously far more complicated, but I assume the basic principles are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/207 "2017-01-05T20:23:19Z")
While any given Scum kill is more likely to take out a Townie due to sheer odds, I see it as likely that the Scum teams will be prioritizing taking out the other Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/208 "2017-01-05T20:24:42Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > And I’m really tempted to just shut up now until day one begins. I want to get started, but having ten days of posting to read through for a day one that effectively includes night zero would be sort of ridiculous. 😕 Yes, I think that would be the best plan. I don’t expect to have the self-control to carry it out, though! MODS: Can we please get this thing started?? I think we are all chomping at the bit (some with bigger teeth than others) to get the mayhem underway. Also, there are no Night Zero actions, right? I thought I remembered reading that, but it’s not in the ruleset at the start of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/209 "2017-01-05T20:28:46Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Since Miller is known to be a role in the game, the Patsy should strongly consider claiming, IMO, and basically be confirmed town (no advantage to scum claiming it b/c real one will counter claim). The small chance of getting lynched for a free vig, is that worth it? > > One thing I noticed recently in a “similar” three-faction setup – I think there’s an inherent bias to lynching town in a game like this. Since both scum factions will tend to avoid voting their own team members, but both will have no hesitation in voting for a lynch-bait townie. We might depend more than ordinarily on the vig and on cross-kills to get the ball rolling. A confirmed townie sets up a WIFOM situation for our Doc regarding protecting the Patsy, whereas otherwise the Doc can just sit safely amongst the crowd and protect himself. That opens up the possibility of the Doc getting killed by either a random kill by scum or by being hit by the Hitman. I mean, a smart Doc would just ignore the Patsy, but trusting people to be smart in this game is dangerous: if you don’t believe me, feel free to look at my past history in these games for proof of pointless idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/210 "2017-01-05T20:29:24Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Since Miller is known to be a role in the game, the Patsy should strongly consider claiming, IMO, and basically be confirmed town (no advantage to scum claiming it b/c real one will counter claim). The small chance of getting lynched for a free vig, is that worth it? This is absolutely correct. I had forgotten that this is an open game (it’s been a long time since I’ve played in a game, let alone an open one). The uniqueness of certain town roles makes claiming a strong choice. For the Patsy, it’s pretty much a no-brainer. (as for the ‘free kill,’ no, it isn’t worth it. Instead of the ‘free kill’ we just use the Lynch we used on the Patsy instead). For something like a roleblocker, it is less straightforward. Personally, I think town role blockers hurt town more than help, but I’m not expecting everyone to think that way. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/211 "2017-01-05T20:30:53Z")
Re: Arsonist, as per Mafia wiki: This name has been used for two different roles. One is an SK who can’t be stopped by doc protection (there may be a special Firefighter role which specifically blocks only the Arsonist’s kills, which seems unlikely in this setup). The other is aka Bomber: Each Night, they can either prime a particular player, or ignite their fire, which simultaneously kills all of the previously primed players. Once they have ignited, they may be able to prime more players, or may become vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/212 "2017-01-05T20:31:37Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > And I’m really tempted to just shut up now until day one begins. I want to get started, but having ten days of posting to read through for a day one that effectively includes night zero would be sort of ridiculous. 😕 In what way is now different than Day One? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/213 "2017-01-05T20:35:10Z")
HOLY CRAP. I went away for two hours for physical therapy and I came back to the fullest inbox I think I’ve ever seen. I’ll try to get to as many answers as I can right now, but I will eventually have to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/214 "2017-01-05T20:37:45Z")
BTW may I just say that these PMs are awesome! I am so looking forward to this game! ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/215 "2017-01-05T20:38:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [color=green]The Understudy role appears to be a bit dysfunctional. They can gain the power of someone who died Night 1, but they have to choose who to understudy before the Dawn of Day 2. But we won’t get the Night 1 deaths until then. This is a typographical error. The Understudy needs to enter an order before the Dawn of Day 3, not Day 2. Apologies all around. > [@](#): > > What happens if the Omega/Consigliere use their power at the same time as the Hitman/Outrider (assuming that Hitman/Outrider target someone who’s actually protected)? Does the protector die, as per Hitman/Outrider, or does the protection being canceled prevent that? The protection does not occur, and therefore the Hitman/Outrider’s target is not protected and the power does not trigger. > [@](#): > > If the Hitman/Outrider is targeted at the same person as a killing power, does the death of the protector prevent the protection from working? No. > [@](#): > > How can the Hitman kill the EMT (or conversely, the Outrider and Dr. Steward), given that their powers work at different times? Technically, you are correct. The Hitman cannot kill the EMT and the Outrider cannot kill Dr. Steward (though the opposite is obviously possible). > [@](#): > > What happens if the target of the Mafia day-kill gets lynched? Tough luck for the Mafia. > [@](#): > > Oh, and I am the proud owner of a role PM, for what it’s worth. Huzzah! ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/216 "2017-01-05T20:39:39Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > **Hitman: What happens if Hitman (or Outrider) targets a self-protecting Doc? Explicitly states ‘your target will survive’ and ‘the player doing the protecting will die’.** In such a case, the self-protecting Doc dies. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/217 "2017-01-05T20:47:19Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > So…having barely skimmed my own role PM, and having taken no time to look at any of the others, I have a question: > > \*\*From a Town perspective, is there any real difference between Mafia and Werewolves? \*\* Would an optimal strategy (not that there’s a snowball’s chance of such a thing actually being implemented, but it’s good for discussion) favor targeting one faction over the other…or are they both just “Scum”? > > As the game winds on, there may come a point based upon the number of remaining members in each faction where it may be significant in order to keep one Scum faction from achieving their win condition, but I haven’t attempted to do the math… I think people have been gnawing around this question, but I wanted to examine it. I am a noob. There are two scum factions. Do they work together? Do they work against everyone? Could one work with the town against the other scum faction? How “Survivor” are we talking here? And, BTW, 14 PAGES - sweet baby Cthulhu. I’mma need to re-read that baby a few times for comprehension. ([del]Harry[/del] A wizard! Really?!) ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/218 "2017-01-05T20:47:43Z")
Put me in the list of people who feel the Patsy should claim Day 1. If anything, it puts scum into an awkward position of do they want to pre-emptively claim patsy day 1 (in which case the Actual patsy can counter claim as this is an open setup), or (more likely) scum would stay silent, the actual patsy would claim their role, and then we can start the ball rolling on the day with the doctors having the WIFOM of dealing with Patsy and Scum WIFOMing to waste a kill on the patsy. Obv. the investigators and Vig should avoid Patsy, but then if things get closer to end game and the patsy’s still alive then we’ll see what’s up. Though in those cases, i feel like the Patsy would end up becoming a ScumKill likely by the scum team that feels that the Patsy is a false-claim by the other scum team. Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/219 "2017-01-05T20:55:18Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Basically- all in all- i’m pro-Patsy claiming Day 1, and then we should NOT lynch the Poor patsy day 1 either though. Unless we get a counterclaim. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315/220 "2017-01-05T20:56:24Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I am a noob. There are two scum factions. Do they work together? Do they work against everyone? Could one work with the town against the other scum faction? There is Not-Town and there is Town. Anyone who isn’t town… is scum in my book. 3rd party roles… Scum. Mafia… Scum! Werewolves… Scum! I don’t want to negotiate or make alliances with scum. I don’t care if the scums want to cooperate or work together or against each other. It’s all Scum to us Townies. It’s 14 of them vs. the Town. If you’re scum, then it’s not 14 obviously, it’s 7+/- 50% of the townies etc… But for Town, we need each of them dead. 1-14. Not 1-12, not 1-13. We need ALL 14 dead. Out of Character Helpful stance (Since you’re claiming Noob): 1. Mafia/Werewolves are both types of scum. Typically they cannot win together. They are each factions trying to win. Mafia wins or werewolves win, but not both. 2. Scum usually will attempt to blend into the Town. They will work with Townies and pretend to be Townies, and (since they are looking for the other scum group) will seem like they are ‘cooperating’ with the Town. But be careful of those with ‘perfect’ knowledge, and those consistently voting up and lynching one type of scum group. They could still be scummy and would be worth investigating by a good investigator. 3. In the end Scum are scum for the town. It’s all bad. But for Scum Group A, and Scum group B, they need to eliminate/weaken the other group, and kill off the townies, while blending in with the townies. 4. Any questions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-reunion-night-zero/776315.md?page=12)