# Mafia: Simpletown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 27, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974 "2008-03-27T21:40:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/321 "2008-04-01T21:17:08Z")
1 - Blaster Master (WF Tomba) 2 - WF Tomba (Ice Cream Man, pedescribe) 1 - Queen of Town (Sitnam) 4 - Menocchio (fluiddruid, bufftabby, zuma, ShadowFacts) 2 - peekercpa (Koldanar, Mind Wanderer) 2 - Sitnam (Blaster Master, Nanook of the North Shore) 2 - fluiddruid (Queen of Town, Menocchio) ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/322 "2008-04-01T21:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] I disagree. Since neither scum nor town have any idea what roles there are, scum could make up whatever they want pretty much with impunity. Hell, even if scum claims Detective, for example, and there is a real Detective playing, should s/he counter-claim? What if there are two Detectives? And in terms of emulating behavior, is it harder to emulate a Doctor or Detective just because you don’t have a role description? I don’t think so. [/quote] A few counterpoints: 1. This is a “back to basics” game, so anything outside of Detective/Doctor/Mason is going to be heavily examined and questioned - more so than usual. 2.) Claiming Detective when you aren’t is very difficult. Even without the Detective outing himself, you have to be able to provide evidence at some point. This buys a couple days at best, so it’s very risky. 3.) Claiming Doctor means you’re accountable for questions like “why didn’t you protect x” and all that. You’re going to get directions and again the time issue comes in. You have a limited life expectancy. 4.) Claiming pure vanilla, unlike a power role, and getting off a lynch means you can slink back to the woodwork. Power roles can’t do that. 5.) If you start to have success as a claimed power role, you’re almost certainly going to be outed by the true holder of that role, and scum knows no better than we do which roles have been issued. Remember - for scum, the biggest goal is staying alive. Scum can do just fine without trying to out the Detective or Doctor and sacrificing a scum player - they tend to out themselves, sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/323 "2008-04-01T21:32:59Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] I think **fluid** ’s point here, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that one of the other risks of making a claim of a power role is that it has to be consistent with the behavior of that player. For instance, part of a claim from a detective usually includes who he investigated. We could go back and compare those investigations to the Day in context and see if they make sense. Post hoc reasoning for investigations just doesn’t have the same feel to it. So, if it happens later in the game, there’ll potentially be damning evidence behind them, if it happens early, they’ll be forced to play in a box that will eventually fall apart on them. [/QUOTE] Right. Power role claims are risky, risky, risky. Not saying impossible but we’re unlikely to see many of them, and when we do it’s almost certainly to buy a day from a really desperate scum in the last few hours. The easiest roles to claim are generally soft roles - like Beat Cops - that are unlikely to be present in this game. Also, I’ll chime in that I think it’s extremely unlikely we have an SK in this game, and still pretty unlikely we have a Vig. We’ll see soon enough so I don’t think it’s worth wringing our hands over. So, now that it’s getting late in the Day - does anyone have any more thoughts on voting? We don’t really have any sort of consensus (not surprising for Day 1 but still something to work on). I’m still not getting a townie vibe for **Menocchio** so I’m leaving my vote stayed here - sorry if you’re sick, Menocchio, but after reading all of your posts in the last game I’m just not buying it. Your tone is different. Less ruthless, more wishy-washy. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/324 "2008-04-01T21:40:46Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > peekercpa is really bothering me, but in an brewha(YSI) sort of way, rather than a Blaster Master(Recruting, after he was recruted) sort of way, so I will not vote for him. > Nanook of the North Shore is acting very stereotypically, I think. This is not significant either way, not yet, but I’m throwing it out there. > bufftabby stuck to her word about random voting…not sure what that means either. > > I’m incredibly suspicious of MindWanderer, MadTheSwine, and Ice Cream Man, but I don’t know why. Every time I go to compile evidence, it disappers. That’s called scumdar, I guess? Not a smudge. For those people confused/accused, this is me thinking out loud. Something I do a lot. When I talk over the internet, I try to preserve the sound of my conversation, and often this means not going back after I think of something new, hence the “not a smudge” comment. What that means is that I got really suspicious of MindWanderer, MadTheSwine, and Ice Cream Man, but couldn’t find any evidence, so I decided not to accuse them of anything. But in case someone else picked up on the something I couldn’t find, I decided to throw it out there. Also, this: > [@W F Tomba](#): > > Blaster Master, I think your distinction between behavior and motivation is theoretically correct, but practically inapplicable. If you don’t know someone’s role, any idea of their motivation is just an inference from their behavior. Is a sound byte. It’s too long to be usless, but too short to be useful. It has the advantage of _looking_ townie without _being_ townie, and it is why I’m suspicious of W F Tomba. It is also a handwaving, but of the more subtle, “I must have been mistaken, he’s clearly townie” variety, as opposed to the more commmon, “what the heck did all that mean?” variety. Also, > [@W F Tomba](#): > > I should point out, though, that in this game the Mafia have not yet had the chance to talk in private, so we should not be looking for any sort of coordinated strategy from them until the second Day. HOW DOES HE KNOW THIS??? This looks like a scum slip. I should note that he was responding to this post by Sitnam: > [@Sitnam](#): > > Does scum know who else is scum already? If there are masons do they know each other already as well? I’m not sure if that means he’s confirmed townie, or scum _acting_ like confirmed townie, or something else. [oog]Also, I have decided to stop bolding names, since it’s a pain in the neck.[/oog] ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/325 "2008-04-01T22:12:55Z")
**Vote Zuma** With his early lurking,switching votes three times and casting the dreaded 3rd vote for **Mennochio** ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/326 "2008-04-01T22:44:33Z")
[QUOTE=pedescribe] HOW DOES HE KNOW THIS??? This looks like a scum slip. [/QUOTE] Not to speak for **W F Tomba** , but that is unlikely to be a scum slip. In basic games, which this one is supposed to be, scum are only allowed to communicate with each other at Night. Since we had a Day start, and it’s still Day 1, it’s a safe assumption that the scum haven’t had a chance to communicate and form a coherent attach plan yet. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/327 "2008-04-01T22:45:42Z")
EBWOP: Attack plan is what I meant. I even previewed. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/328 "2008-04-01T22:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Nanook of the North Shore] You’re right that that would be a scum tell, except I’m not calling for anyone’s head based on those sorts of comments. In fact, I probably never would call for someone’s head on those grounds. I think I’ve made it clear that I follow the idea of looking at the motivation, not the action. A disagreement in strategy or in ideas does not say scum to me, so I wouldn’t vote for someone based on it. [/QUOTE] I’m inclined to give **nook** wiggle room here. Eventually he did agree with the point I was trying to make. I know that **Blaster Master** cautioned **Queen of Town** about doing this but … There seems to be a lot of newbs (or close to that status) in this game so some jousting at shadows, I would think, can be expected. I mean crap: Every time I make a post I figure it’s going to get jumped on and I’ll just be deeper in the oil than I already am. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/329 "2008-04-01T23:06:30Z")
[QUOTE=peekercpa] I mean crap: Every time I make a post I figure it’s going to get jumped on and I’ll just be deeper in the oil than I already am. [/QUOTE] I’m getting that vibe also, not very conducive to propagating open discussion. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/330 "2008-04-01T23:15:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] I’m getting that vibe also, not very conducive to propagating open discussion. [/QUOTE] I’d like to ask **Blaster Master** why an offboard game like Batman runs over 30 pages (I think) on day one but this one is on page seven with the sun dipping low in the sky? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/331 "2008-04-01T23:18:23Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] So, now that it’s getting late in the Day - does anyone have any more thoughts on voting? We don’t really have any sort of consensus (not surprising for Day 1 but still something to work on). I’m still not getting a townie vibe for **Menocchio** so I’m leaving my vote stayed here - sorry if you’re sick, Menocchio, but after reading all of your posts in the last game I’m just not buying it. Your tone is different. Less ruthless, more wishy-washy. [/QUOTE] It’s Day 1, and I have very little to go on. If you don’t lynch me, then I can break out the claws. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/332 "2008-04-01T23:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=peekercpa] I’d like to ask **Blaster Master** why an offboard game like Batman runs over 30 pages (I think) on day one but this one is on page seven with the sun dipping low in the sky? [/QUOTE] A lot of it has to do with the complexity of the game and who’s playing. Some people just like to post more, and I also think that more complex games will generate a lot more discussion simply because there’s more to figure out. Also, don’t forget that there’s only 16 players here and 24 in that game (I think). ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/333 "2008-04-01T23:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] A lot of it has to do with the complexity of the game and who’s playing. Some people just like to post more, and I also think that more complex games will generate a lot more discussion simply because there’s more to figure out. Also, don’t forget that there’s only 16 players here and 24 in that game (I think). [/QUOTE] Fair enough. It still feels a little cliquey, though. I mean I know we don’t have a **ROosh** but it still feels a little “red haired stepchildish”. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/334 "2008-04-02T00:34:54Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] With his early lurking,switching votes three times and casting the dreaded 3rd vote for **Mennochio** [/QUOTE] Can you explain why switching votes three times is scummy? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/335 "2008-04-02T01:51:46Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] Can you explain why switching votes three times is scummy? [/QUOTE] Shoot, ask Koldanar and Mind Wanderer about their votes on me. I tried to have a reason for voting the way I did although I am not saying it couldn’t be perceived as lame. Holy crud, there have been a heck of a lot more votes and suspicions cast since mine that are about as justified. IMHO, of course. Haven’t heard much from them since then, however. Remind me,if I ever play this game again, not to mix Tequilla, Mafia and Trivial Pursuit at the same time. And I am going to re-echo mine and **Sitnam** ’s feelings - you guys really seem to jump on people who talk and let the lurkers skate. **Sitnam** can, of course, disagree with my characterization. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/336 "2008-04-02T02:11:42Z")
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts] Can you explain why switching votes three times is scummy? [/QUOTE] Not sure that it is,but they sure came in rapid sucession.Just raised a flag. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Cream\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ice\_Cream\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Cream_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/337 "2008-04-02T02:20:35Z")
I feel bad for not posting enough… man some of you guys are really prolific! I’m having a hard time deciding who seems suspicious. I’d say 90% of the conversation is just talking about probabilities and eventualities. Is the first Day always like this? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/338 "2008-04-02T02:50:34Z")
[QUOTE=peekercpa] Shoot, ask Koldanar and Mind Wanderer about their votes on me. I tried to have a reason for voting the way I did although I am not saying it couldn’t be perceived as lame. Holy crud, there have been a heck of a lot more votes and suspicions cast since mine that are about as justified. IMHO, of course. Haven’t heard much from them since then, however. Remind me,if I ever play this game again, not to mix Tequilla, Mafia and Trivial Pursuit at the same time. And I am going to re-echo mine and **Sitnam** ’s feelings - you guys really seem to jump on people who talk and let the lurkers skate. **Sitnam** can, of course, disagree with my characterization. [/QUOTE] Did you mean to quote me with this? Because I’m not seeing any connection to what I asked **MadtheSwine** … And who is “you guys”? I hope you’re not referring to me, because all of my votes today have been on lurkers. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/339 "2008-04-02T02:53:08Z")
[QUOTE=MadTheSwine] Not sure that it is,but they sure came in rapid sucession.Just raised a flag. [/QUOTE] High enough to vote, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974/340 "2008-04-02T05:56:49Z")
[QUOTE=pedescribe] HOW DOES HE KNOW THIS??? This looks like a scum slip. [/QUOTE] It’s in the rules, man: > [@sachertorte](#): > > Game related communication outside the game thread is forbidden, except for scum who may communicate at Night and only at Night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-simpletown/442974.md?page=18)