# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Flyfisheron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Flyfisheron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyfisheron)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/221 "2008-09-06T04:54:18Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Care to elaborate? Trying to figure how to word this without ‘quoting my PM’… The ‘killed’ didn’t necessarily have to be a group decision, that power (and the decision of who to kill) could be turned over to one particular player. ---
**Author:** ![Flyfisheron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Flyfisheron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyfisheron)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/222 "2008-09-06T04:55:34Z")
> [@Flyfisheron](#): > > preset number of **days**. Sorry… that should have been **D** ays. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/223 "2008-09-06T07:40:49Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > **Flyfisheron** , **Squid** , **One and Only Wanderers** , and **Rysto** : > > NAF has identified you as pre-reset scum. I would like you to explicitly state whether or not your previous role had a “quirk.” And if it did, what it was. > > Thanks. I didn’t fully understand my role pm, but I think it was a standard choose a killer choose a target deal. Either the scum group who can communicate pick a killer and target, or they delegate the uncommunicative scum to kill someone of his choice ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/224 "2008-09-06T07:45:52Z")
Good grief, plenty of stuff to go through. Interesting, though. Oh and a brief thank you to Sarah Connor 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/225 "2008-09-06T07:52:09Z")
Ya know, I’m really not inclined to give more than a passing thought to the “I was [insert quite possibly fabricated and manipulative wifom scummy testimony here] prior to the reset”. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/226 "2008-09-06T08:19:20Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > It’s really not that weird. NAF claims pre-reset scum. In his PM he would have been told whatever information he (scum) deserve regarding the T-1000. Therefore NAF knows to what extent scum know who the T-1000 is. > Voila! Shoot, dude. Is not computing a bit. In your response you questioned the illogic of the is vs isn’t role explanation. Now you are intimating that he knew all along. And now you are claiming that you have access to his role PM. I continue to wander (not all who hike are lost) what the heck you are up to. First borda vote **Vote sach** Second for stepping in and looking like a something or other **Vote Cookie** And third because this seems so choreographed **Vote Rysto** Someone has to do it. Might as well be me. Votes subject to change, as always. Woot woot. Let the games begin. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/227 "2008-09-06T08:26:17Z")
What exactly did I do again? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/228 "2008-09-06T10:27:39Z")
> [@Flyfisheron](#): > > The ‘killed’ didn’t necessarily have to be a group decision, that power (and the decision of who to kill) could be turned over to one particular player. That player would (I suspect) be the T-1000 player. From the [post=10145184]role description[/post], the T-1000: > [@](#): > > Can be ordered to do the kill on X by the other scum, or ordered to do the kill but choose the target by the other scum. Or is there something else going on? ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/229 "2008-09-06T11:58:34Z")
The Secret Agent T1000’s role description on page one says that he/she gets to choose someone to copy each Day and is informed of their role that Night. Although it says he/she gets to use that power at Night some roles are activated during the Day (Sarah Connor and Politician) so I assume he/she is able to duplicate those roles too. From the role description of Sarah Connor I can’t see anything that states she can’t be copied. So toDay is probably the only Day we can be certain that Sarah Connor’s the one making the decisions. IOW on other Days the T1000 could be protecting scum or targetting scientists. I’d like to know for certain that the T1000 206 isn’t able to copy anyone’s actions till Night 1/Day 2 as that’s how I read it in the original post. And for some reason I can’t get my font to change to green so I can’t ask for clarification - damn this newfangled technology! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/230 "2008-09-06T12:44:23Z")
**Mod Question** **Do Unvotes need to be person by person or can you just do an “Unvote All”?** Prays fervently to the Og of blackberries that it is the latter. And then prays some more. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/231 "2008-09-06T13:10:42Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > What exactly did I do again? :dubious: C’mon **cookies**. You know I have a hair trigger. I really do wonder about **sach** ’s **Naf** question. And it seemed like you jumped in rather quick to answer on his behalf. At this point us townies have so little to go on that just about anything can set us off. I would normally go for the lynch the lurker but I am not sure that everyone has even chimed in. Additionally this approach has typically been greeted with about as much enthusiasm as **OD** ’s mass role claim suggestion (i.e. Turd in a punchbowl). I do believe that getting votes out early is going to be critical. This voting system is going to, if we allow it, give the scummers much more power to manipulate the lynchee. We’ll catch 'em eventually but will it be in time. If you and the others want to go down the FOS route, which I have never been a fan of (if you are going to FOS might as well vote) then I can be down with that for this rule set. So it may be lame. But it’s not random and it’s not LTL. And, as always, please feel free to take my Monterrey Jack cheese logic and turn it into Swiss. Everyone else, as well. Winces waiting for the **sach** smackdown. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/232 "2008-09-06T13:32:49Z")
NETA. I am assuming the no edit thingy is in force. If this borda voting was five deep I would have included **Blam** and **story**. Just because their back and forths seems a wee bit contrived (also since I don’t definitively know that they are on my team I expect the worst). So consider yourself in good company my friend. And depending on how the **mhaye** alignment breaks this could be an **Ike**. And this is no disrespect for some of the board cherries - just don’t know you all very well. But it feels like this sucka could take out Havannah, NOLA, or Miami. About equal probabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/233 "2008-09-06T13:42:33Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Ya know, I’m really not inclined to give more than a passing thought to the “I was [insert quite possibly fabricated and manipulative wifom scummy testimony here] prior to the reset”. Keep in mind that greater than 75% of said testimonies are going to be truthful, as the only people who have anything to WiFoM about are the current scum. Being that this is the second time you’ve said that this game, though, I tend to wonder why you’re hinting at stifling the discussion. Cookies: I’m not stifling the discussion! Random Player: People don’t think what I have to share about this situation is valuable, so I’m not going to bring it up. Add another entry to the list of games **Cookies** has raised my eyebrow early in the game. Also, I’m really leaving for the weekend now. I took a “nap” at 7PM last night, and woke up at 7AM?! :o ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/234 "2008-09-06T15:17:01Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > The Secret Agent T1000’s role description on page one says that he/she gets to choose someone to copy each Day and is informed of their role that Night. Although it says he/she gets to use that power at Night some roles are activated during the Day (Sarah Connor and Politician) so I assume he/she is able to duplicate those roles too. > > From the role description of Sarah Connor I can’t see anything that states she can’t be copied. So toDay is probably the only Day we can be certain that Sarah Connor’s the one making the decisions. IOW on other Days the T1000 could be protecting scum or targetting scientists. > > I’d like to know for certain that the T1000 206 isn’t able to copy anyone’s actions till Night 1/Day 2 as that’s how I read it in the original post. And for some reason I can’t get my font to change to green so I can’t ask for clarification - damn this newfangled technology! ☹ Every night, the assassain T-1000 chooses someone to copy. Every dawn, the assassain T-1000 is told what thesse powers are, and they last from dawn to dawn. (Dawn ends about a day into the Day). So, if the assassain T-1000 copies Sarah Conner tonight, the assassain T-1000 would be able to intimidate/protect twice. If the assassain T-1000 copied a politician, the assassain T-1000 would be able to ‘set’ someone’s vote in the first 24 hours of the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/235 "2008-09-06T15:21:13Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > **Mod Question** > > **Do Unvotes need to be person by person or can you just do an “Unvote All”?** > > Prays fervently to the Og of blackberries that it is the latter. > > And then prays some more. > [@peeker](#): > > I am assuming the no edit thingy is in force. You can do ‘unvote all’. You can also do Unvote this person, bump taht guy up, bump this guy to third, and vote this girl for first, but you may make the mod’s head explode if you do that too often. Also, **NO EDITING** I’m almost sure I said that earlier, but just in case… Anway, vote count: Complete Votes Peeker: 1. Sach; 2. Cookies; 3. Rysto \*\*Incomplete Votes None Extra Effects Sarah Connor is currently intimidtating anyone voting for CatInASuit. Totals: Sach: (3) (Peeker 1st) Cookies: (2) (Peeker 2nd) Rysto: (1) (Peeker 3rd) CatInASuit: (-3) (Sarah Connor Special Effect) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/236 "2008-09-06T15:56:16Z")
Cool. First there were the dead, then came zombies, followed by hoverers. Now we have an opportunity for a Mod head explosion. I am so digging this game. Unvotes and Votes to follow at a random and intermittent basis. Just not yet. I want their guard down. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/237 "2008-09-06T18:58:15Z")
This is funny. I posted a response to your question, Peeker, because I had an opinion and a perspective and I tend to share those when I play Mafia. It is kinda how the game is played, don’t you think? I find it interesting that you attempt to qualify my post as being “jumping in for sachertorte”, as if I had been eaves dropping on a private conversation instead of reading the game in public as we all are. I also find it interesting that Rugger is already labeling me as a Discourager of Discourse, and in the same breath doing a preemptive hand-wave anticipating any counter-argument I might make. Thanks for the “damned if I do, damned if I don’t” set up there, old chap. But enough with the spin/smear rebuttals… To business. I see absolutely no reason for myself or anyone else to trust what is being said in the pre-reset conversations at this time, and I consider that to be a pro-town perspective that is worth repeating a few times, so their’s a third for you. The best I’m hoping for by saying this is to instill some cynical vigilance where perhaps there was a lack thereof. Y’all can talk about whatever you want. I am not stopping any of you nor voting for any of you. From a completely metagame perspective, it is not nearly as fun, imho, for the initial conversation (or even any conversation, really) to concentrate on trying to exploit information that may be available due to a bumpy game start. So to summarize: Unsporting and risky behavior is something I have no problem voicing my opinion on. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/238 "2008-09-06T19:09:21Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I see absolutely no reason for myself or anyone else to trust what is being said in the pre-reset conversations at this time, and I consider that to be a pro-town perspective that is worth repeating a few times, so their’s a third for you. Well, you can’t just dismiss the info out of hand. Take **NAF** ’s assertion about who the scum were. If he’s lying scum, there pretty much has to be a pro-Town player out there who can out him(it’s only not a guarantee because I didn’t get my scum PM). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/239 "2008-09-06T19:17:09Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > Shoot, dude. Is not computing a bit. In your response you questioned the illogic of the is vs isn’t role explanation. Now you are intimating that he knew all along. And now you are claiming that you have access to his role PM. I continue to wander (not all who hike are lost) what the heck you are up to. > > First borda vote > > **Vote sach** Your inability to understand is your problem, not mine. The conversation and motivations for the conversation is plain and clear. Furthermore, the notion that “I don’t understand” equates to “You are scum” is making my blood pressure rise… AGAIN. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/240 "2008-09-06T19:17:18Z")
He could still very well be not-lying scum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=13)