# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/301 "2008-09-07T17:50:58Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > I am treating post set as a brand new game. If others want to ascribe certain information from previous games (i.e. Pre set or any other played game) then go for it. Just not making a whole lot of sense for me personlly. > > Meh, my two cents. Thanks for the two cents - but do you mind giving me some more šŸ˜‰ Why - if you want to play without all the pre-set informations - does it make a difference who got /didnā€™t get a PM before the re-set?? Iā€™m not sure - thatā€™s why I ask - really hope you donā€™t mind! ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/302 "2008-09-07T17:51:17Z")
Vote Count! Complete Votes: Storyteller: 1. NBC, 2. Storyteller, 3. Rysto Incomplete Votes: N/A NOTE: INCOMPLETE VOTES DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS DUSK TALLIES Extra Effects: Sarah Connor is currently intimidtating anyone voting for CatInASuit. Totals: NBC: (3) (Storyteller 1st) Storyteller: (2) (Storyteller 2nd) Rysto: (1) (Storyteller 3rd) CatInASuit: (-3) (Sarah Connor Special Effect) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/303 "2008-09-07T19:25:08Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Thanks for the two cents - but do you mind giving me some more šŸ˜‰ > > Why - if you want to play without all the pre-set informations - does it make a difference who got /didnā€™t get a PM before the re-set?? > > Iā€™m not sure - thatā€™s why I ask - really hope you donā€™t mind! I am glad you asked, actually because I was going to post this in one way or another. Hypothetical, **A Doper** is, letā€™s say role A, in a previous game. That has (or shouldnā€™t have) any impact on their role assignment in the current game. If, however, **A Doper** lies about their previous role in the current game then that comes into play, IMHO of course. Letā€™s see how this comes into play: Doper A was a scum in a previous game. **Moi** Just because you were a scum last time I have no conclusion about your role assignment this time. **Doper A** Damnm straight. Remembering that Doper A was a scum in the previous game. **Moi** you were scum last game therefore I am going to make statistical implications about your scummitude in this game. **Doper A**. I was not scum last game you retard. Notice the subtle difference šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/304 "2008-09-08T00:13:23Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > And I probably spelled it wrong but cuata is the feminine of cuato - i.e. Gemini, the twins. So letā€™s drink our Geritol and itā€™s not ā€œdirtyā€ until **Santo** chimes in. After that, all bets are off especially if you get the ā€œfavoredā€ position at the bottom of the scrum. Weird! If I read a post on the Mafia Boards right your birthdayā€™s the same day as my twin sons - 02/09 or 09/02 for you furriners. Santoā€™s learnt it isnā€™t a good idea to give me the favoured bottom position. Last time my knees siezed up and there was the unfortunate incident with the false teeth. And to everyone else - sorry - Iā€™ll try and post something sensible and relating to the game tomorrow - for now itā€™s way past my bedtime šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/305 "2008-09-08T00:43:10Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > Weird! If I read a post on the Mafia Boards right your birthdayā€™s the same day as my twin sons - 02/09 or 09/02 for you furriners. > > Santoā€™s learnt it isnā€™t a good idea to give me the favoured bottom position. Last time my knees siezed up and there was the unfortunate incident with the false teeth. > > And to everyone else - sorry - Iā€™ll try and post something sensible and relating to the game tomorrow - for now itā€™s way past my bedtime šŸ™‚ Mother of Og. Removable teeth. Letā€™s get done with the Dayā€™s business. Itā€™s time to turn the lights down low and make sure all of the toys are fully charged. Shizemak. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/306 "2008-09-08T01:03:49Z")
And to steal from the off board site. **AH**. I am **Inigo Montoya** and your relations killed my Father. For this you must pay. I could rightfully demand the first dance of the evening. But I choose something much more personal. Best three of five on Yahtzee. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/307 "2008-09-08T11:02:57Z")
If I get a chance to write more today I will, but I am still trying to run through it. But before I forget. **Pick up the taser Pick up the key for the storage closet Pick up the big gun.** Assuming I am allowed to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/308 "2008-09-08T13:06:50Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > If I get a chance to write more today I will, but I am still trying to run through it. > > But before I forget. > > **Pick up the taser > Pick up the key for the storage closet > Pick up the big gun.** > > Assuming I am allowed to do so? Huh? No, no, those represent three roles. The person with the taser is the roleblocker. The person with the storagte closet key is the commuter. The person with the big gun is Pleoā€™s vig. That was all sorted out before the game began (color wise). ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/309 "2008-09-08T13:18:34Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Huh? No, no, those represent three roles. > The person with the taser is the roleblocker. > The person with the storagte closet key is the commuter. > The person with the big gun is Pleoā€™s vig. > That was all sorted out before the game began (color wise). Iā€™ve been watching the offboard Gastard game for too long, I thought there were extras being handed out as well :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/310 "2008-09-08T13:35:53Z")
Just checking in to let you guys know that Iā€™ve been really busy this weekend - went all the way to Savannah to try out for Jeopardy, and then a movie my boyfriend edited had a little premiere, etc. Iā€™m catching up now, but on skimming there seems to be a whole lot of nothing to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/311 "2008-09-08T14:41:51Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Proposal: > Sarah Connor should either admit who she is so we can lynch her Today. Without knowing the alignment of other players, giving or taking votes away from them can be too great of a scum advantage. Also, the probability of a Townie losing their powers because of her role is too great, IMHO. Alternatively, we could have _one_ Vanilla Scientist claim, and have Sarah target them every night. This is a bad plan if the person who goes crazy is the same person who is intimidated. Mod clarification? Well given that Sarah Connor is currently protected at Night and would cause a scum death if attacked, albeit at the cost of a Vig and assuming the Vigs do nothing to begin with, asking them to claim now to be lynched instead, before their role removal power kicks in makes little sense. Or are you just looking for an easy lynch on Day 1? How is the giving and taking of votes too big a scum advantage? However, the role does becomes a threat from Day 3, especially if they claim, unless the Secret Agent T-1000 is found first. Do we really want want two people randomly removing powers from the town. A few Days later on, and we could wind up with 6 random roles being removed etc. I have a feeling the personal modkill might get used in this case. But that is up to the player in question. Iā€™m not sure it affects the number of mislynches we have if Sarah Connor mod-suicides, but it is worth bearing in mind, that we will probably need that extra half a lynch generated by the other town roles. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/312 "2008-09-08T14:47:11Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > Iā€™m not sure what to think af Sarah Conner - but since she had to vote at dawn, could she have information about Town, that only she knows? > Is her voting today a guess or is it significant? I would like to think it was significant, but it is far more likely to be a guess. Iā€™m just amused I got picked instead of someone more usual like **storyteller** who has all the mafia fans. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/313 "2008-09-08T15:09:08Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > Iā€™m not sure it affects the number of mislynches we have if Sarah Connor mod-suicides, It costs us a half-mislynch. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/314 "2008-09-08T15:14:51Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Frankly, in light of **pedescribeā€™s** statements, **Rysto** looks a bit suspicious. Particularly given that of all the scum roles that might have quirks, obviously the Jester and the T-1000 are the ones most likely to (the vanilla scum are probably all identical). Itā€™s entirely possible that, if the T-1000 is the scum role with a quirk (and bear in mind, we have no idea, really, if any scum roles have quirks at all; the quirks may all be Townie in nature), Rysto was given the same role back again, or given a new scum role, in order to keep the quirk from being revealed. In such a case, lying that the original PM was never received would be your best course. I will just add that if \*\*Rysto \*\*is lying about not receiving his original PM, then it shows really poor sportsmanship on his part given the issues that occured at the start. Lying about the contents of a PM, if scum, is one thing, if not expected of the role. But lying about not receiving a PM at all, is wrong on a sporting level whether they are town or scum. However, to place suspicion on someone because this situation has occured seems to be taking advantage of the implied facts. In other words, heading for scummy. So, initial votes from me and subject to change in the future, of course. 1. \*\*vote Santo Rugger \*\*- over calling for Sarah Connor to be lynched 2. \*\*vote storyteller \*\*- concerning his position on Rysto 3. **vote peekercpa** - for his position on Rysto as well although he backed off after Mod intervention. Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/315 "2008-09-08T15:46:07Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Damn, this game is starting off fast. > > I have an idea, that I think is going to be unpopular; what about a mass claim? > > I havenā€™t thought through every scenario but it seems we have enough role blockers and protective roles that the important people could be defended and there are only a couple of roles that the scum can effectively copy so it should be relatively easy to sort them out. > > Except for the T-1000 the rest of the scum are effectively vanilla. So they will either claim vanilla which would give us a worst case scenario of select group that is 36% scum which is better then we have now. Or they would try to bluff through other roles. Two politicians or Sarah Connors are easy to test we have the two vigs kill them, the roles donā€™t add anything to town knowledge. With two role blockers we would just have them block the vigs and each block the vig that will kill them. The paranoid doc could block the vig trying to kill them as well. John Connors could be tested by having each of them ask a different question which ever gets answered would be real. > > The problem as I see it comes with the T-1000 who can claim anything and just copy his oppositeā€™s powers but even with this I think our odd improve. > > So what do you guys think? Iā€™m going to be playing catchup throughout the Day as I can, but I want to comment on this first. I donā€™t think the mass claim idea will work and I think thatā€™s precisely why the mechanism of the T-800 is put in place. The doctors are then pretty much forced to self protect, the bus driver is stuck trying to outguess the scum at night and redirect it onto a claimed vanilla, and the scum effectively get 2 kills per night with the T-1000 copying one of the vigs. I havenā€™t yet seen if this is gone anywhere, but at least on my cursory glance, this doesnā€™t look like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/316 "2008-09-08T15:51:19Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Is it possible for thier to be a tie with the boarda count system? More to the point, will it be easy to spot and avoid? Yes, ties are possible. In fact, ties are more likely to occur by accident now than before. They will also be harder to spot but, when found, they should be easier to avoid because anyone will be able to make last minute adjustments to their votes to create or avoid a tie. As such, I really think itā€™s to our advantage to try to keep a tie out of the reach of a single vote swing. A 2-3 lynch point lead is effectively a 1 vote lead in the usual system, so those situations need to be watched very carefully. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/317 "2008-09-08T15:56:21Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I think that the Borda count voting is going to make it critical that Townies state their suspicions as early as possible. My worry is that the later somebody votes, the easier it is to vote strategically(which is obviously most value to the scum). If the Town publicly state their suspicions ahead of time, then a late scum voter will be constrained by their public ā€œsuspicionsā€ and will find it much more difficult to vote strategically. I personally will be looking askance at anybody whoā€™s continually coming in late with key votes, especially if it contradicts previously stated suspicions or if they didnā€™t name any suspects before the vote. This, I agree with. In fact, the whole borda system pretty much puts the FOS system out the window. Rather than FOS, put a vote on someone. Not only does it make it official, but it provides a methodology of tracking it. Further, to help with the avoiding ties and such, Iā€™d really like to see complete, or nearly complete, votes from everyone at least 24 hours before the Day ends. Last minute vote swings, which are so common, particularly on the first Day, will be SO much more hell with the borda count and will easily allow scum an opportunity to adjust their votes strategically beneath all that mess. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/318 "2008-09-08T16:02:31Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > However, to place suspicion on someone because this situation has occured seems to be taking advantage of the implied facts. In other words, heading for scummy. Eh. Upon reflection, my initial suspicion of **Rysto** has lessened considerably; if he still _is_ the T-1000 and has a quirk he wants to hide, he could just as easily have claimed to have received the previous PM and had no quirks as lied about receiving the PM in the first place. But I donā€™t apologize for the vote. Itā€™s the third vote on a list that includes _myself_, for Peteā€™s sake, and itā€™s cast early in the Day. Weā€™re all going to be reaching a bit to support our second and (especially) third votes, especially early in the game, where even finding a strong FIRST target for a vote is typically a challenge. And Iā€™m not exactly sure what the phrase ā€œtaking advantage of the implied factsā€ even _means_, let alone how it applies to me in the case of **Rysto**. Which ā€œimpliedā€ facts do you think played a role in my post, versus actual facts? How was I ā€œtaking advantageā€ of those facts? By using them to justify a vote? Because if using facts to justify a vote is your idea of scummy these days, weā€™re in for a very, very long game. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/319 "2008-09-08T16:08:21Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > Cā€™mon **cookies**. You know I have a hair trigger. I really do wonder about **sach** ā€™s **Naf** question. And it seemed like you jumped in rather quick to answer on his behalf. **At this point us townies have so little to go on that just about anything can set us off.** I would normally go for the lynch the lurker but I am not sure that everyone has even chimed in. Additionally this approach has typically been greeted with about as much enthusiasm as **OD** ā€™s mass role claim suggestion (i.e. Turd in a punchbowl). {Bolding Mine} This reads to me as though want us to believe youā€™re townie because youā€™re reacting irrationally. > [@peekercpa](#): > > NETA. I am assuming the no edit thingy is in force. > > If this borda voting was five deep I would have included **Blam** and **story**. Just because their back and forths seems a wee bit contrived (also since I donā€™t definitively know that they are on my team I expect the worst). So consider yourself in good company my friend. Huh? What back and forths have **Storyteller** and I had yet of any consequence? What about anything that either of us has said is contrived? This is most definitely a smudge on both of us. That said, this is the most suspicious posting Iā€™ve seen so far, so Iā€™m going to go ahead a put a vote on you. Vote **peekercpa** ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/320 "2008-09-08T16:17:40Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Huh? What back and forths have **Storyteller** and I had yet of any consequence? What about anything that either of us has said is contrived? This is most definitely a smudge on both of us. I canā€™t believe I missed that the first time. Itā€™s the very first ā€œBLAM and Story are pretending to fightā€ comment and we havenā€™t even fought yet! Awesome. unvote all 1. vote NaturalBlondChap 2. vote peekercpa 3. vote storyteller Rystoā€™s off the list for now, given that lying about not receiving a PM would have been more difficult than just lying about having no quirk, if he had one. **peeker** joins the list secondary to the above. I stay on the list because I currently have no viable third candidate. * * * All - I strongly encourage filler votes to go along with your real votes, even early in the Day. **pedescribe** is not counting incomplete votes (like BLAMā€™s a post upthread) in the official vote count, which is going to make for a lot of confusion when we try to figure out where we stand. If youā€™re going to vote, vote for three people, so that the numbers all get added together and we can see clearly who is headed for a lynch before the deadline is upon us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=17)