# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/621 "2008-09-16T17:51:15Z")
Ohh, and the Bus Driver can switch a role that might be targeted to a Vanilla, I like it! ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/622 "2008-09-16T18:05:25Z")
I can’t see a downside to this from a town perspective - if someone else does they should speak up. It doesn’t guarantee a win but does give us a lot more chance and a smaller number of people to choose from. If the majority agree then I’m for it. [[oog my mind did switch off during the football reference but the meaning was clear:) oog]] ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/623 "2008-09-16T18:08:30Z")
I guess I should set up a random order so we’ll have one if we decide to do this. We’ll use a similar method to what we used in Batman: I’ll take the total number of runs scored in all MLB games that start between 7:00 and 7:30 tonight and feed it into [this pseudo-random number generator](http://stattrek.com/Tables/Random.aspx)(the same one we used in Batman). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10195229&postcount=562)’s the player list I’ll use for generating the order(with the caveat that dead players are removed from the list, so **CIAS** gets moved to #2, **Cookies** to #3, and so on. Any objections or questions to the random order? ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/624 "2008-09-16T18:08:36Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > **WE SHOULD DEFINITELY CLAIM**. I’m trying to get this - but I’m not sure, if I fully understand this. Sorry! What about “Sarah”? Are we just going to let her be? And what if she wouldn’t claim? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/625 "2008-09-16T18:37:15Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > This is huge. I agree. I can also see where this could be useful in an open set up. We will know which claims to look at, too many vanilla’s doubled up vig etc. If we do it though, lets do it sooner rather than later, to let us strategise the nighttime. ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/626 "2008-09-16T18:54:25Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I guess I should set up a random order so we’ll have one if we decide to do this. We’ll use a similar method to what we used in Batman: I’ll take the total number of runs scored in all MLB games that start between 7:00 and 7:30 tonight and feed it into [this pseudo-random number generator](http://stattrek.com/Tables/Random.aspx)(the same one we used in Batman). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10195229&postcount=562)’s the player list I’ll use for generating the order(with the caveat that dead players are removed from the list, so **CIAS** gets moved to #2, **Cookies** to #3, and so on. > > Any objections or questions to the random order? No objections but just letting you know that if everyone decides to go ahead with this that I’m on BST and as I’m first on the list I might be tucked up in bed by the time everyone has a chance to give their opinions 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/627 "2008-09-16T19:03:38Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > No objections but just letting you know that if everyone decides to go ahead with this that I’m on BST and as I’m first on the list I might be tucked up in bed by the time everyone has a chance to give their opinions 🙂 Perhaps the list shuold be made based on the timezones? Going from west to east?? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/628 "2008-09-16T19:28:48Z")
I welcome our mass-claiming overlords. I’ll keep my eyes open for whatever random claim list we have, but have to warn y’all that work is crazy busy and I might end up slowing things down in spite of my best efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/629 "2008-09-16T19:30:09Z")
I’m all for it. What are we going to do with someone who misses their turn. Does the next person go and we vote for the skipped person? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/630 "2008-09-16T19:48:15Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’m all for it. What are we going to do with someone who misses their turn. Does the next person go and we vote for the skipped person? Skipping people like that kind of misses the point of the random order. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/631 "2008-09-16T20:11:51Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Skipping people like that kind of misses the point of the random order. I understand that but if we don’t skip then the four scum can delay enough that we don’t get all of the claims in toDay. Between now and the end of the Day we have ~68 hrs which means that we have about 4hrs apiece assuming we go to the very end and don’t have time to discuss so in reality we have 2hrs with discussion time but people need to sleep too. Figuring that in we need to claim about an hour apart. I’m not sure the best way to keep the scum from screwing this up. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/632 "2008-09-16T20:16:30Z")
Can we use yesterday’s scores to speed things up a bit? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/633 "2008-09-16T20:21:48Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Can we use yesterday’s scores to speed things up a bit? They aren’t random anymore. You have to be sure that you can trust that I can’t manipulate the generation of the order. The best way to do that is to use a random seed. ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/634 "2008-09-16T20:27:07Z")
I think it’s a good idea to work out the logistics but it’s by no means certain yet that there will be a mass claim. We need the majority of people to agree to it first. So far we’ve got: For: AH (me) Oredigger Santo Storyteller Cookies Rysto (I think) OAOW Maybes: MHaye Squid Total Lost Against though they said this prior to Story’s post: Catinasuit Unknown: Everyone else So even if everyone does get behind this I doubt we’ll be able to start until tomorrow (real time not game time) ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/635 "2008-09-16T20:40:19Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > I think it’s a good idea to work out the logistics but it’s by no means certain yet that there will be a mass claim. We need the majority of people to agree to it first. So far we’ve got: > > Maybes: > > MHaye > Squid > Total Lost I am a “maybe” on my way to a “be” - I’m just a little uncertain on HOW it’ll work if SC claims town…? I’m don’t know if “she” will - but she seems reluctant to claim (her voting for Santo… or is it Santos _lol_) ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/636 "2008-09-16T20:56:44Z")
What about Sarah? If we’re doing a mass claim, she kind of becomes inconsequential, since a confirmed town is worth way more than the power in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/637 "2008-09-16T21:02:23Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > They aren’t random anymore. You have to be sure that you can trust that I can’t manipulate the generation of the order. The best way to do that is to use a random seed. How would you be able to manipulate the numbers if the seed is yesterday’s numbers, as opposed to ones in the future? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/638 "2008-09-16T21:37:45Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > What about Sarah? If we’re doing a mass claim, she kind of becomes inconsequential, since a confirmed town is worth way more than the power in that situation. Agreed. Also - if we wait to do this until toMorrow, some of the best benefit - catching the scum off guard and unable to discuss the issue - will be lost. We need to speed things up, and frankly I’m not sure it matters if this is random or not. The pro-Town benefits of this - forcing scum to make a claim, narrowing our field, benefitting the power roles - don’t really rely on a random reveal order. A random reveal order is really only useful, now that I think about it, in a closed game. The scum know _exactly_ what the roles are - which of us have them is irrelevant to their purposes. Even if every scum happens to go after every Townie, they still have to make the same choice that they’d have to make right now: counter a Town power role or claim vanilla. Thus, I am opposed to a random reveal, and think that reveals should happen in whatever order gets them out as quickly as possible. And given that I feel very strongly about this, I’m just going to go ahead and do it. **I am an Ordinary Scientist**. Vanilla as you please. One of the major reasons I was so interested in **Rysto’s** claim of not receiving his role PM was that, knowing that I had received the same role, I couldn’t possibly be sure that the “random reset” wasn’t actually no reset at all. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/639 "2008-09-16T21:43:27Z")
[quote=“storyteller0910, post:638, topic:461699”] **I am an Ordinary Scientist**. QUOTE] Whoah, whoah, whoah - I thought we were discussing this - I not even a “be” yet!! ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/640 "2008-09-16T21:48:22Z")
[quote=“Total\_Lost, post:639, topic:461699”] > [@storyteller0910](#): > > **I am an Ordinary Scientist**. > > QUOTE] > > Whoah, whoah, whoah - I thought we were discussing this - I not even a “be” yet!! I won’t force anyone to do anything. An excess of discussion in this case favors the scum. It allows them to delay the action long enough that the claiming might not be complete today, and further to take up the whole day tossing the idea around so we don’t have time to actually take action with a useful vote. Ultimately it comes down to a sequence of individual choices anyway. I’ve made my choice, and now everyone else can make theirs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=33)