# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/721 "2008-09-17T18:11:31Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > For the sake of my edification; **Santo Rugger** , can you point me at your claim post please? I must have missed it. No problem, it was pretty easy to miss: > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Seconded. It was in response to \*\*story \*\*saying he had received Vanilla twice in a row. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/722 "2008-09-17T18:12:11Z")
VANILLA storyteller0910 Santo Rugger Diggit Cookies NBC Shadow Facts BUS DRIVER Rysto COMMUTER One and Only Wanderers POLITICIAN Almost Human PARANOID DOC Oredigger77 POWER-ROLE-TO-BE-NAMED-LATER-OR-NOT-DEPENDING peekercpa Boozahol Squid, PI Total Lost mhaye 18 are alive; 14 have either fully- or partially-claimed. Four players remain who have not claimed: CiaS, Pollux Oil, Flyfisheron, and NAF. Of these, **Cat** has been addressing the issue, **NAF** just got back from Disneyland, and **Pollux Oil** only recently joined the game but has expressed distaste for the idea of mass claims in general. **Flyfisheron** has not chimed in yet at all. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/723 "2008-09-17T18:49:55Z")
I am sorry to say this but this game is broken and the scum cannot win. This is due to the unfortunate effect of the voting and mod-kill. In order to do this, all that has to happen is for the all real vanilla scientists to not vote. They will be modkilled at the end of Day leaving behind any scum who were pretending to be vanilla and had to vote or any pairs of scum who have matched up with a power role. However, there will be more than enough power roles remaning to outweigh the remaining scum and pairs. To prevent the Jester taking effect from the Lynch a single power role can be sacrificed to the lynch from a non-pair. After the vanilla die, a power role is lynched and the Vigilante removes a scum from the voting vanilla, we will be below the 12 people limit under which the Jester has no effect. Endgame. The scum cannot recruit and it will be obvious who they are. And it takes all the fun out of it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/724 "2008-09-17T18:50:06Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Care to elaborate? In what way? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/725 "2008-09-17T18:53:38Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > I am sorry to say this but this game is broken and the scum cannot win. > > This is due to the unfortunate effect of the voting and mod-kill. > > In order to do this, all that has to happen is for the all real vanilla scientists to not vote. They will be modkilled at the end of Day leaving behind any scum who were pretending to be vanilla and had to vote or any pairs of scum who have matched up with a power role. > > However, there will be more than enough power roles remaning to outweigh the remaining scum and pairs. To prevent the Jester taking effect from the Lynch a single power role can be sacrificed to the lynch from a non-pair. > > After the vanilla die, a power role is lynched and the Vigilante removes a scum from the voting vanilla, we will be below the 12 people limit under which the Jester has no effect. > > Endgame. > > The scum cannot recruit and it will be obvious who they are. > > And it takes all the fun out of it. ☹ Ugh. Well. That’s… yuck. Kat and I have developed a rule for our upcoming game which reads basically like this: _we don’t have to modkill you if we don’t want to._ If we think that modkills are being used as a tool, we’ll simply decline to employ them. I think maybe **pedescribe** might consider instituting such a policy, to keep the game from breaking altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/726 "2008-09-17T18:53:50Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > I am sorry to say this but this game is broken and the scum cannot win. > > This is due to the unfortunate effect of the voting and mod-kill. > > In order to do this, all that has to happen is for the all real vanilla scientists to not vote. They will be modkilled at the end of Day leaving behind any scum who were pretending to be vanilla and had to vote or any pairs of scum who have matched up with a power role. Mod-killed players insta-lose. If the vanillas are willing to lose so that the power roles can win, go ahead, but **ped** has taken care of this possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/727 "2008-09-17T18:55:48Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Now, returning to our regularly scheduled game. > > There may be people who feel it is better not to claim even with this turn of the game. In which case they have two alternatives; hide and hope no-one notices, or say so and explain why. > > Me? I’m gong to test the water. > > I am town-aligned, but not a vanilla Scientist. I remain reticent about my exact role at this time. > > For the sake of my edification; **Santo Rugger** , can you point me at your claim post please? I must have missed it. As another one of our ‘Not telling yet’ power roles, I think we need to come to a decision about this. Scum have the ability to hide in three ways now: claim Vanilla, not participate in the role claim, or do what we’re doing right now. As the list of ‘confirmable but pro-town’ claimers grows, the less use the mass-claim is. We can use the threat of lynch to enforce a mass-claim (and thereby remove the ability of scum to hide in an anti-claim camp), but what can we do about people in our boat? Are we really going to risk lynching our Doc to make him fess up? Wel, I’ll stick my money where my mouth is. I’m **John Conner.** Was scum pre-set. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/728 "2008-09-17T18:56:54Z")
EBWOP: Actually, **John ConnOr**. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/729 "2008-09-17T18:58:08Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > In what way? Is there a specific reason you feel that your claiming would be a downside for the town? I mean, we already know (assuming everybody has told the truth who has claimed so far, that you’re either a roleblocker, the doc, suicidal vig, or one of the Conners. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/730 "2008-09-17T19:02:08Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > …Are we really going to risk lynching our Doc to make him fess up? Unfortunately, this has become our M.O. This way, at least we have a pool from which to do it, preventing the scum from hiding in a much larger pool. > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Scum have the ability to hide in three ways now: claim Vanilla, not participate in the role claim, or **do what we’re doing** right now. I think better of you than to assume that’s a slip, but damn. 😉 Vanilla is already full, not participating will draw too much heat, and what you’re doing right now will lead to pairing up if a scum has tried it soon enough. I think our roleblocker and bus driver can keep the heat off the Docs for a bit, so I think we’re golden. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/731 "2008-09-17T19:04:50Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > I think better of you than to assume that’s a slip, but damn. 😉 😃 You know what I meant: claiming a power, pro-town role, but not divulging it. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/732 "2008-09-17T19:05:22Z")
For the record vanilla, as always, although somehow my hearts not in it. **pedescribe - any comment on the above.** ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/733 "2008-09-17T19:06:53Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Mod-killed players insta-lose. If the vanillas are willing to lose so that the power roles can win, go ahead, but **ped** has taken care of this possibility. Despite the mod saying “you lost,” some players may feel that they have won anyway if they did this and their side won. I would not be one of them, but MMV. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/734 "2008-09-17T19:10:41Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Despite the mod saying “you lost,” some players may feel that they have won anyway if they did this and their side won. I would not be one of them, but MMV. That makes two of us. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/735 "2008-09-17T19:20:52Z")
VANILLA storyteller0910 Santo Rugger Diggit Cookies NBC Shadow Facts CatinaSuit BUS DRIVER Rysto COMMUTER One and Only Wanderers POLITICIAN Almost Human PARANOID DOC Oredigger77 JOHN CONNOR Boozahol Squid, PI POWER-ROLE-TO-BE-NAMED-LATER-OR-NOT-DEPENDING peekercpa Total Lost mhaye UNCLAIMED NAF Pollux Oil Flyfisheron * * * Regarding the modkill thing, I personally want to win the game according to its rules. If modkilling means I lose, then I, for one, will be voting every Day. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/736 "2008-09-17T19:22:46Z")
Vanilla scientists not willing to be modkilled and lose the game, winning it for their teammates: storyteller0910 Santo Rugger Shadow Facts ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/737 "2008-09-17T19:23:58Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Mod-killed players insta-lose. If the vanillas are willing to lose so that the power roles can win, go ahead, but **ped** has taken care of this possibility. I can’t find a reference to that in this thread? Personally, I would like to have a Gentlemans/Ladies agreement that we will continue to vote and not get ourselves mod-killed regardless of the situation. I do not want to end a game in this way before Night 2, even though it would keep up my reputation 😃 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/738 "2008-09-17T19:25:03Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > I can’t find a reference to that in this thread? > > Personally, I would like to have a Gentlemans/Ladies agreement that we will continue to vote and not get ourselves mod-killed regardless of the situation. > > I do not want to end a game in this way before Night 2, even though it would keep up my reputation 😃 Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/739 "2008-09-17T19:27:52Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Vanilla scientists not willing to be modkilled and lose the game, winning it for their teammates: > > storyteller0910 > Santo Rugger > Shadow Facts oog Santo Is this a list for Pedescribe so he will know our intentions are for game on and we don’t plan to break it with the suicide nonsense. If so please add me to it. oog ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/740 "2008-09-17T19:37:12Z")
I was mostly being a jackass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=38)