# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/981 "2008-09-22T01:50:47Z")
THAT particular WIFOM is why I’d rather get confirmed scum now than try to figure out who the jester is. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/982 "2008-09-22T02:09:12Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > THAT particular WIFOM is why I’d rather get confirmed scum now than try to figure out who the jester is. Do we have _confirmed_ scum? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/983 "2008-09-22T02:38:58Z")
I’m not sure if we do or not, but our one doc is looking pretty good to me at the moment. And by good I mean Terminator-y. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/984 "2008-09-22T05:54:39Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I also agree that we should focus on the claimed vanillas toDay. That was the intention with the mass claim, so we should continue with the plan. I’m going to vote for vanillas - and I’m be voting for those with the least substantial post (because I believe that a player like Storyteller is more valuable to us at this point) ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/985 "2008-09-22T10:00:33Z")
Well, my previous position on \*\*Oredigger77 \*\*and \*\*NAF1138 \*\*was to leave them until after we were at 12 people or below. That hasn’t really changed, as I really don’t think we can afford to waste a lynch on a beneficial power role and get it wrong. I’m all for giving them both another couple of Nights to prove their towniness before looking at them again. \*\*Rysto’s \*\*idea to test them with the Vigilante is sound, with the main drawback being that it outs the Vigilante. However, it does reduce the pool of people to look at. I’ll leave the Vigilante to think that one over. I think it is slightly better than lynching one of them and getting it wrong even though the Vigilante can kill the scum that Night. We have 16 people still standing, which means the scum probably need to have the Jester lynched either toDay or toMorrow. However, I don’t think the idea of lynching two uncontested power roles to avoid it will go down too well 😛 That was a joke btw **Squid** , I am happy that you are John Connor. As for suspects, my main three haven’t changed that much overNight. \*\*vote 1. Zeriel 2. Santo Rugger 3. NBC\*\* I have moved \*\*Zeriel \*\*to the top, over looking at lynching a power role, which is not good for the Town, and because he did not seem to want to try and reduce the vanilla pool. (However much of a long shot it was.) There was also \*\*Cookies \*\*vote for a power role yesterDay, which was explained away as skimming. \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*did the same at end of Day as well, although he did explain this morning. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/986 "2008-09-22T12:22:06Z")
OK, status report: **Sixteen** players remain. First point: according to the role description, the Jester’s power works only if (s)he is lynched _before_ there are 12 players remaining (NOT _when_ there are 12 remaining). This is important. Assuming normal lynches with no modkills, no blocked kills at Night, and no SV kills, we must therefore lynch a total of two more players without lynching the Jester in order to obviate his powers. HOWEVER:Assume for a moment that we manage to not lynch the Jester toDay, lose a player to Night kill toNight, and not lynch the Jester again toMorrow. Going into toMorrow Night, we would then have 13 players alive. If the scum are down a player at that point, it would unquestionably be in their best interest to no-kill, to keep the Jester’s opportunity to recruit alive. As far as I can tell, there is no mechanic allowing us to no-lynch. So actually, we must now lynch three times, without hitting the Jester, in order to avoid a recruitment. Now, the following players: \*\*Rysto \*\*(Bus Driver) **One and Only Wanderers** (Commuter) \*\*Almost Human \*\*(Politician) **Boozahol Squid, PI** (John Connor) **Total Lost** (Doctor) \*\*mhaye \*\* (Sarah Connor) Are all, as far as I am concerned, confirmed Townies. I will be considering them as such in my analyses of what is to come. If a power role other than the Suicidal Vig is currently hanging out in the Vanilla pool, then it will foul those analyses, but I regard the likelihood of that as fairly low. So, six players above, all confirmed in my mind. Next we have a total of EIGHT vanilla claimants: **storyteller0910 Santo Rugger Diggit Cookies NBC Shadow Facts CatinaSuit Pollux Oil** Of which four are actually vanillas, three are Scum, and one is the Suicidal Vig. Finally, two claimants to the role of Paranoid Doc, of which one is almost certainly being truthful, and the other is Scum. **Oredigger77 NAF** Observations: 1. I think **Oredigger** is almost surely telling the truth, and **NAF** is probably scum. Far from seeming scummy, **Oredigger’s** claimed blocktect of **Wanderers** was a good idea all around. Had **Wanderers** attempted to hide and been blocked from doing so, we’d have confirmation of **Oredigger** and a plum target for our Vig. And the block, because it is packaged with a protect, means that **Wanderers** won’t die even if targeted, so no harm done there. Nonetheless, I see no good reason to lynch either claimant toDay or anytime soon. The danger that **NAF** may be the Jester dancing around trying to draw our kill is important. More important, though, is the simple fact that _as long as both are alive the real paranoid Doc will never be killed_. If the Scum target the real Paranoid Doc, then the Suicidal Vig will take out the other claimant the following Night, which is not an outcome that the Scum want. So I move that we leave the Paranoid Docs alone for a while. We should lynch from the pool of Vanillas for now, leaving the Paranoid and real Doc a solid chance to prevent a kill. Given that the Paranoid Doc won’t be a target at all, that’s five potential scum targets and two protectors. Not bad. 1. **THE SUICIDAL VIGILANTE SHOULD NOT CLAIM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES OTHER THAN HIS OR HER IMMINENT LYNCH.** Testing the competing Doc claims is not nearly as important as keeping the SV alive to handle any definitively revealed scum that may appear. As long as the SV sits in the vanilla pool, the Scum cannot risk targeting vanillas in the hopes of hitting him/her. If they miss, and take out a vanilla, they narrow their pool to hide in even further. If we happen to mislynch again toDay and lose a vanilla, and then the Scum target the vanillas looking for the SV and miss, killing another vanilla, then by Dawn it will be 6 claimed vanillas, including 3 scum and 1 SV. At that point I’m not sure the Scum have much of a chance of winning unless we foul up grotesquely. So, as long as (s)he doesn’t poke his/her head up, the SV is safe from Night kill. Remember, keeping the SV alive is connected to point #1 - once (s)he is dead, the Scum can kill the Paranoid Doc at their leisure, knowing that we have no way to take out their imposter other than a lynch. If the imposter is the Jester, that’s suboptimal for us. * * * So: I think we should lynch a vanilla claimant. I will obviously not be voting for myself, which leaves me seven claimants to evaluate. A much more reasonable number then what we had at this time yesterDay. Let’s get to it. * * * **Oh, and Oredigger, NAF, a question for both of you: are you permitted to self-protect?** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/987 "2008-09-22T13:28:45Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > I have moved \*\*Zeriel \*\*to the top, over looking at lynching a power role, which is not good for the Town, and because he did not seem to want to try and reduce the vanilla pool. (However much of a long shot it was.) > > There was also \*\*Cookies \*\*vote for a power role yesterDay, which was explained away as skimming. \*\*ShadowFacts \*\*did the same at end of Day as well, although he did explain this morning. You’ll note that despite my concern over being led down the garden path by the scum (which is, in my opinion, a concern if we rule out voting on a Doc completely), my only vote right now is right on you, sir. So, since I’m clearly ACTUALLY interested in weeding down the vanilla pool, this looks like an OMGUS on your part. Which makes me right comfortable with where my #1 vote is. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/988 "2008-09-22T14:30:17Z")
I don’t think that my abilty to self protect is important to town. Since if they kill me it will be by lynch. So I’m going to decline answering. I’m going to hold my vote for a couple of days but at least my initial will be in by mid week. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/989 "2008-09-22T14:32:32Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I don’t think that my abilty to self protect is important to town. Since if they kill me it will be by lynch. So I’m going to decline answering Unless it’s by, you know, the Suicidal Vig… ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/990 "2008-09-22T14:35:40Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I don’t think that my abilty to self protect is important to town. Since if they kill me it will be by lynch. So I’m going to decline answering. Except _if_ the SV can self-protect, then (s)he _can_ be confirmed by the Suicidal Vigilante. If you claim to be able to self-protect, then the SV can target you toNight without outing him or herself. If you wake up in the Morning, then you’re who you say you are, and the SV can target **NAF** the following Night without risk. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/991 "2008-09-22T14:39:10Z")
Obviously, the first clause there should read: “if the _Paranoid Doc_ can self-protect…” ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/992 "2008-09-22T14:43:23Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Obviously, the first clause there should read: “if the _Paranoid Doc_ can self-protect…” Flubbing on details… SCUM TELL!!! ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/993 "2008-09-22T14:56:01Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Flubbing on details… SCUM TELL!!! Yer mama’s a scum tell. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/994 "2008-09-22T15:24:18Z")
That’s what she said! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/995 "2008-09-22T15:57:40Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > **Oh, and Oredigger, NAF, a question for both of you: are you permitted to self-protect?** I don’t know why Ore isn’t answering this question. Unless he doesn’t know the answer. Though he could probably guess. No, I can not self protect. Out of curiosity story, why do you think I am the more likely to be scum? Is it just based on Ore’s claim that he protect/blocked OAOW? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/996 "2008-09-22T17:24:57Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > “You hear the sound of footsteps, and a voice. ‘Digger, no, no, cookies…no, should be one more…ah! CatInASuit’s room.’ A knocking sound, then the creak of an opening door. A slight ruffling, and a quick, clipped voice that must be CatInASuit comes out. ‘Hey, John. I was just…but never mind, I have time to talk. So, what you here for?’ The young voice of John Connor responds: ‘What’s wrong with Wolfie? I can hear him barking! Did someone feed him squid again?’ And then CatInASuit’s voice, ‘Who’s wolfie? The dog’s name is Max’. Then you hear the shuffling of feet and a hesitant John Connor, ‘No, no…um…wolfie is the…sea lion. He’s part of an experiment they’re doing, and he likes squid, see. Anyway…bye.’ Then the quick pounding of feet. A door slams.” Can we go back to this again for a second? I must admit I am a little confused by this whole thing. I understand the most important aspect (I think): that **Boozahol** said he was going to include his name in there for confirmation, and that happened. Excellent. But what about the rest of it? **Boozahol** , was your question to **CatInASuit** about feeding squid to a dog? 😕 Does the question and \*\*Cat’s \*\*answer tell us anything? I think someone upthread said it was a reference to the movie, but I haven’t seen T2 since it came out, and I don’t remember anything like this. Any help appreciated. I’d like to make sure we squeeze as much info out of this power as possible… ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/997 "2008-09-22T17:40:12Z")
**Boozaholic** basically said since those who were asked questions of don’t have to tell the truth, that he didn’t think it was very valuable. Therefore, he just threw out a question that got mod confirmation that **Squiddo** is JC. No need to read into anything, and I can’t understand why\*\* CatInA\*\* tried to get people to think they could, considering the back and forth that was had about **Boozaholic** ’s role Yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/998 "2008-09-22T18:27:19Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > **Boozaholic** basically said since those who were asked questions of don’t have to tell the truth, that he didn’t think it was very valuable. Therefore, he just threw out a question that got mod confirmation that **Squiddo** is JC. No need to read into anything, and I can’t understand why\*\* CatInA\*\* tried to get people to think they could, considering the back and forth that was had about **Boozaholic** ’s role Yesterday. Perhaps I’m tilting at windmills here, but I guess what I’m getting at is: how much of that was mod color, and what was actual questions/answers from **Boozahol** and **Cat**. If that could be answered, it might be helpful. (Or it might be a total waste of time, but I’d like to know anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/999 "2008-09-22T18:48:51Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Perhaps I’m tilting at windmills here, but I guess what I’m getting at is: how much of that was mod color, and what was actual questions/answers from **Boozahol** and **Cat**. If that could be answered, it might be helpful. (Or it might be a total waste of time, but I’d like to know anyway). Why does it matter what **CatInA** ’s answer was if he doesn’t have to tell the truth? And if it was colored in such a way that it became a public investigative role, wouldn’t **Boozaholic** already have told us? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1000 "2008-09-22T18:54:31Z")
Oh, wait! He did! > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Sorry, dude. The only thing that’s confirmed is that you’ve watched T2. As it is, I hope that I’m confirmed as John Conners: either I am, or whoever actually has the roles really wants the rest of the town to think I am. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=51)