# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1301 "2008-10-07T06:49:54Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I followed orders like a good little soldier. I said I would and I did. Don’t think so **NAF**. Just got my reply from pedescribe and I own your ass today. Confirminating vote redirect to follow but in the meantime: Vote 1 **NAF** haven’t decided on the other two yet. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1302 "2008-10-07T06:59:14Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > Don’t think so **NAF**. Just got my reply from pedescribe and I own your ass today. > > Confirminating vote redirect to follow but in the meantime: > > Vote 1 **NAF** > > haven’t decided on the other two yet. OK given that you were to target an uncontested power role, either you or your target HAS to be kosher, so for now **vote 1. NAF** ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1303 "2008-10-07T11:48:41Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > Don’t think so **NAF**. Just got my reply from pedescribe and I own your ass today. > > Confirminating vote redirect to follow but in the meantime: > > Vote 1 **NAF** > > haven’t decided on the other two yet. This looks promising. \*\*NAF1138 \*\*- you wouldn’t care to do a full vote for us would you, just to prove whether or not you belong to **Almost Human**. **Almost Human** , if you do send him a vote make it for all uncontested roles to prove the point, it can be switched later and there is no reason for anyone to vote that way. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1304 "2008-10-07T12:20:31Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Did that answer your question (whatever it is)? No, but it does bring up a new one: **MHaye** , would you care to explain why exactly you haven’t intimidated _anybody_ since the Jester was lynched? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1305 "2008-10-07T12:35:16Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I followed orders like a good little soldier. I said I would and I did. > [@Almost\_Human](#): > > (bolding mine) > > I bribed NAF as agreed. Haven’t had a pm from pedescribe yet so don’t know whether I was successful, blocked or Connored. I’ve pmed him and will let you know as soon as I get a reply. > [@Almost\_Human](#): > > Don’t think so **NAF**. Just got my reply from pedescribe and I own your ass today. Well, somebody’s lying. Who could it be? > [@NAF1138](#): > > Oh and, > > **1. vote Oredigger > 2. more to come > 3. more to come** > [@pedescribe](#): > > Complete Votes: > Santo Rugger: 1. CatInASuit, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Diggit Camera > > Incomplete Votes: > N/A > > Special Effects: > N/A **1. Vote NAF** ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1306 "2008-10-07T13:36:03Z")
Nice, **Rysto**. For a second I thought you were saying **pedescribe** was lying, and then I realized you were showing that NAF’s vote wasn’t being counted, which means **NAF** didn’t block **Almost Human** like he said he would. \*\* Unvote 1. Vote NAF 2. Vote CatInA 3. Vote ShadowFacts\*\* ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1307 "2008-10-07T14:45:03Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Diggit > Cookies / Z-man > Shadow Facts > CatinaSuit > > Half of the people on the above list are scum. We have two mislynches left, assuming no protects. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > _(bleached)_ > > Cute. I like the way you assume you are Town and expect the rest of us too, as well. :dubious: > > Also, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: votes without reasons are less useful and potentially scummy. You argued with me about not providing reasons before, and again you refuse to provide reasons here. Not cool, IMHO. > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Kindly point to where I asked everybody to assume I was town. Sure. In your first post above that I’ve quoted (love this new multi-quote feature), you made a list of 4 out of 5 of the vanilla claimants [at the time - obviously **Diggit** has now claimed Vig without contest]. You conveniently left yourself off the list, claiming that there were 2 scum in the remaining 4. By saying that, you are assuming yourself to be Town and you want the rest of us to, as well. Now of course you claim you are Town and that therefore you _know_ you don’t belong on the list. The problem is, I can say the same thing and take myself off the list. So can **Zeriel** or **Cat** , etc. None of us are confirmed Town, and you know that. Taking yourself out of consideration is disingenuous and you know it. No, you didn’t come out and say “I am Town,” but you may as well have. > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > I did give reasons. I explained my reasoning for CatInA Yesterday. Assuming he’s scum, that means of my other 2 votes, there’s a 2/3 chance that one of them is scum. That’s my reasoning; I said as much in my post. Can I get a post # for your case against **Cat**? Is that _really_ too much to ask? As for the other votes, you’ve basically just admitted that you have no reasons and they are based on probability, which is based on an assumption (i.e. that **Cat** is scum), which you ask us to take without any specific reference. As far as I can see, it’s all smoke. > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Being Vanilla at this stage gives me a bit of an advantage, is that I know without a doubt the alignment of one person in the Vanilla pool. How can you reasonably expect me not to use that knowledge to benefit my team? Of course, and I have the same advantage. (See, I can play this game, too!) The problem is that you expect us to believe that you are Vanilla and to buy the reasoning that flows from that assumption, when you know (or should know) full well that we can’t. Basically, instead of saying “I’m voting for **ShadowFacts** because of X, Y, and Z reasons,” you’re saying “I’m voting for **ShadowFacts** because I’m Town and **CatInASuit** is scum, so there’s a good chance he’s scum.” Sorry, pal, but that’s lame. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1308 "2008-10-07T14:52:07Z")
1. VOTE NAF 2. Vote CatInASuit 3. Vote Santo Rugger One for the liar, two for the vanilla pool. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1309 "2008-10-07T14:53:59Z")
Well, so much for my scumdar. I would have bet $$ **Oredigger** was the scum out of that pair. \*\*Vote: 1. NAF 2. Santo Rugger 3. ShadowFacts\*\* Reasons: 1. Duh. He’s a lying scum. 2. See my post 1307 just above. As well as posts 1051, 1052, 1053 earlier. 3. Placeholder ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1310 "2008-10-07T14:56:36Z")
I glad to see the situation with NAF is almost done but I still need to be confirmed since, thanks to the jester, I’m still in doubt. I have no problem going one on one with the vig because I know I’m town, but you guys don’t have that luxury. Do we want to spend Total on protecting the Vig from suicide as well? Unfortunately, I don’t have anything that I can put reasoning behind, yet, for my second two votes so I’ll hold off on voting for NAF. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1311 "2008-10-07T14:58:20Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Well, so much for my scumdar. I would have bet $$ **Oredigger** was the scum out of that pair. Don’t worry I get this every game and eventually I’ll be scum and I’ll be screwed.😃 Of course I probably need to figure out how not to get everyone to think I’m scum. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1312 "2008-10-07T15:37:06Z")
Heavy snippage follows. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > You conveniently left yourself off the list, claiming that there were 2 scum in the remaining 4. By saying that, you are assuming yourself to be Town and you want the rest of us to, as well. Why would I put myself on my own list. I made a blanket proclamation which is 100% true. > [@](#): > > Now of course you claim you are Town and that therefore you _know_ you don’t belong on the list. The problem is, I can say the same thing and take myself off the list. So can **Zeriel** or **Cat** , etc. Then do it. > [@](#): > > None of us are confirmed Town, and you know that. I never asked anybody to consider me confirmed. I’m not going to be voting for myself. [/quote] > [@](#): > > Taking yourself out of consideration is disingenuous and you know it. So, you’re saying you’re in consideration on your own list? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > No, you didn’t come out and say “I am Town,” but you may as well have. Well, I am. I believe you’re not. > [@](#): > > Can I get a post # for your case against **Cat**? Is that _really_ too much to ask? Holy, shit, man, it’s only two pages back. Please try to follow along. But, yes, I’ll even quote it for you: > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Okay, **CatInA** has really been pinging me hard this game. I’m sure a lot of it is OMGUS, but I just feel like he’s really been attacking me because of my ideas this game. Like I said in my above post, I think I’ve come up with some pretty novel ideas in this game. Now, some of them may be good, some of them may be bad, and some of them may be mediocre. However, I just _feel_ like **CatInA** has really pushed hard at me. What better way as scum to win the game for your team than to pick somebody with controversial ideas and hound them until the town decided to lynch them. Granted, a lot of people have been suspicious of my ideas, but how are we ever going to break through the barrier of letting the power roles do all the lifting for us without novel ideas? It just really feels to me like scum trying to go for an easy kill. > > Sorry this post wasn’t as eloquent, I’m starting to get tired, which I’ve been for pretty much the whole game. Going to work when the sun hasn’t risen really sucks. > [@](#): > > As for the other votes, you’ve basically just admitted that you have no reasons and they are based on probability 2/3 seems like pretty damn good odds, to me. Sounds like you’re getting scared that I now have three scum on my list > [@](#): > > , which is based on an assumption (i.e. that **Cat** is scum), which you ask us to take without any specific reference. As far as I can see, it’s all smoke. No, it’s based on the fact that 2 of the people in the Vanilla pool are scum. > [@](#): > > Of course, and I have the same advantage. (See, I can play this game, too!) Then do it, and quit whining about how your team is about to go down in flames. [/quote] > [@](#): > > The problem is that you expect us to believe that you are Vanilla and to buy the reasoning that flows from that assumption, when you know (or should know) full well that we can’t. I NEVER FUCKING DID OR SAID THAT. > [@](#): > > Sorry, pal, but that’s lame. What’s lame? That all three of the people I’m currently voting for are scum? How is that lame? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1313 "2008-10-07T15:52:42Z")
Wow, dude. Take a deep breath or something. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1314 "2008-10-07T16:00:47Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Wow, dude. Take a deep breath or something. So are you going to admit you’re scum? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1315 "2008-10-07T16:02:27Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Wow, dude. Take a deep breath or something. Oh, forgot to mention. I’m not worked up. Just trying to get my point across. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1316 "2008-10-07T16:30:43Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Oh, forgot to mention. I’m not worked up. Just trying to get my point across. 🙂 OK, cool. Just seemed like you were beginning to get agitated, and I’ve seen these things devolve into animus before, and I don’t want to go there. 🙂 As for admitting I’m scum: well, no. I am Town and, more than that, I am confident that the other Town will read our exchanges and see who is scummier between the two of us. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1317 "2008-10-07T16:42:40Z")
Vote Count! Complete Votes: Santo Rugger: 1.NAF, 2.CatInASuit, 3.Shadow Facts Zeriel: 1.NAF, 2.CatInASuit, 3.Santo Rugger ShadowFacts: 1.NAF, 2.Santo Rugger, 3.Shadow Facts Incomplete Votes: Almost Human: 1. NAF OaOW: 1. NAF Rysto: NAF Special Effects: N/A Totals: NAF: (18) (S. Rugger 1st, Rysto 1st, Zeriel 1st, OaOW 1st, AH 1st, Shadow Facts 1st) CatInASuit: (4) (S. Rugger 2nd, Zeriel 2nd) Santo Rugger: (3) (Shadow Facts 2nd, Zeriel 3rd) Shadow Facts: (2) (S. Rugger 3rd, Shadow Facts 3rd) ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1318 "2008-10-07T17:02:27Z")
Yaknow, it’s starting to make sense that, assuming **CatInA** and **ShadowFacts** are scum, that they’d have been tag teaming me for a while now, trying to nudge the town into findind me suspicious of the things that I stuck my neck out for that were or seemed like good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1319 "2008-10-07T17:17:03Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I glad to see the situation with NAF is almost done but I still need to be confirmed since, thanks to the jester, I’m still in doubt. I have no problem going one on one with the vig because I know I’m town, but you guys don’t have that luxury. Do we want to spend Total on protecting the Vig from suicide as well? I don’t think we should be telling the Doc what to do now. She’s playing a game of bluff with the T-1000s, and I really don’t want to tie her down to protecting a known target, even for one Night. That will be the night she dies. The other point is that if you and you alone protect Diggit Tonight, should he be alive in the Morning it means that the only way for you to be a T-1000 is if Diggit is also one of the regular T-1000s. If TotalLost also protects him, we learn nothing about you. So let’s leave the claimed Doc alone and let her decide who to protect (if she’s not the recruit, that is). ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1320 "2008-10-07T18:11:37Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Yaknow, it’s starting to make sense that, assuming **CatInA** and **ShadowFacts** are scum, that they’d have been tag teaming me for a while now, trying to nudge the town into findind me suspicious of the things that I stuck my neck out for that were or seemed like good ideas. I look forward to you providing evidence for these baseless accusations\*. Given your track record to date, I won’t be holding my breath. I’m calling you out: put up or shut up. 😛 \*\* I’m speaking only for myself here - **Cat** could have been doing what you claim, I can’t say. Although it’s still on you to prove it.\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=67)