# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1341 "2008-10-08T16:37:13Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > … NAF is going down. Line starts here! ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1342 "2008-10-08T16:45:44Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Yes of course I expect you to believe it, or I wouldn’t have _bothered_ to type it out. > > You’re not even considering the possibility that it might be true. Assume that it is for a moment, and ask yourself whether what I say makes sense if that is true. > > Just to be clear : I _chose_ no-one. The spreading of insanity was 100% random, and the determination was made by **pedescribe** , not me. If I had been free to choose, I might well have driven NBC mad, since I’d already speculated he might be the Jester in Day 2. > > Ain’t Multiquote wonderful? FTR, [random.org](http://random.org) made the choice, not me. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1343 "2008-10-08T17:24:55Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > If you’re going to throw around insults about my game play to insinuate I’m scum, it’d be wise to take into account my previous games, in which I’ve never really done a comprehensive analysis. That’s just not the kind of player I am. I’m a lazy fuck, I’ll be the first to admit that. Fortunately, **it’s quite obvious we’ll both be around Tomorrow,** so it gives me an extra week to procrastinate (and for you to say scummy things) before I have to get my ass in gear. (bolding mine) You crack me up. 😃 I’d be laughing harder if not for the bolded portion, which seems like a bit of a slip that you know what’s going to happen tonight. Oops! ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1344 "2008-10-08T17:33:57Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > (bolding mine) > > You crack me up. 😃 > > I’d be laughing harder if not for the bolded portion, which seems like a bit of a slip that you know what’s going to happen tonight. Oops! Pull your head out of your bum. Why would scum aim for anybody in the Vanilla pool? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1345 "2008-10-08T17:51:56Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Pull your head out of your bum. Why would scum aim for anybody in the Vanilla pool? I have no idea, but apparently you know more about it than the rest of us do. PS. Can you give me a hand, my head’s stuck! ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1346 "2008-10-08T18:00:24Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > PS. Can you give me a hand, my head’s stuck! I’ll help - but please don’t hold it against me, if I touch your bum… ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1347 "2008-10-08T18:03:38Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > I’ll help - but please don’t hold it against me, if I touch your bum… Ahh, just what the Doctor ordered 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1348 "2008-10-08T18:06:02Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I have no idea, but apparently you know more about it than the rest of us do. > > PS. Can you give me a hand, my head’s stuck! I can’t tell if you’re being serious, or just fooling around, but I’ll bite anyway. To borrow\*\* CatInA’\*\*s list: > [@](#): > > Uncontested Roles > Almost Human - Politican > DiggitCamera - Vigilante > Mhaye - Sarah Connor > OAOW - Commuter > Rysto - Bus Driver > Total Lost - Doctor > > Contested Paranoid Doc > OreDigger77 > NAF1138 > > Claimed vanilla > CatInASuit > Cookies/Zeriel > Santo Rugger > Shadowfacts > > With at least 2 of the vanilla being scum. Now, we know the result of the Contested Paranoid Doc, so let’s rearrange the list a bit: Uncontested Roles Almost Human - Politican DiggitCamera - Vigilante Mhaye - Sarah Connor OAOW - Commuter Rysto - Bus Driver Total Lost - Doctor OreDigger77 - Paranoid Doc Claimed vanilla CatInASuit Cookies/Zeriel Santo Rugger Shadowfacts NAF - Scum, with at least 2 of the vanilla being scum. So, lynching somebody in the Vanilla pool gives us a 2/4 chance of lynching scum.\* Therefore, lynching somebody in the uncontested pool gives us a 1/6 chance of lynching scum. Why would the scum help us out by making the odds 2/3 and 1/7, instead. It’d be ludicrous, and is the whole premise of why we all name claimed in the first place. Do you really not understand that, or are you just toying with me to get me to use the time that I would have spent building a case against you to try and explain simple arithmetic and odds to you? I’m pretty sure “the rest of us” understand it, please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. \*Possibly 3/4, but I doubt that’s the case. WiFoM and all, but it doesn’t seem like a remarkably intelligent move. \*Assuming there’s a kill Tonight. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1349 "2008-10-08T18:40:34Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > I can’t tell if you’re being serious, or just fooling around, but I’ll bite anyway. Well, I am having a little fun with you today (as I think you are with me), but I was serious about that comment. I understand your logic, and - if you can believe this - I agree with you. In my opinion, it wouldn’t make sense for scum to target a Vanilla tonight. But I don’t know what they know, and I think it’s dangerous to make assumptions in these games. So while I think it is probable that they won’t kill Vanilla tonight, it’s certainly not out of the question. Who the hell knows? What struck me was the _certainty_ of your comment. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1350 "2008-10-08T18:52:16Z")
I have fun everyday. You should feel privileged to be part of my fun having. 😉 My comment was so certain because, well, I’m pretty certain they wouldn’t target a Vanilla. It’d be a bad move all around; it’d increase their likelyhood of getting one of their own lynched the next day, all the power roles would still be around, and they’d basically be giving us the opportunity to avoid a mislynch in the smaller pool. I have no respect for the scum, but I don’t think they’re stupid. So, yeah, I’m quite certain. You agree with my logic, you don’t think it would make sense either; but if I’m not around Tomorrow, the town will know for a fact that at least 2/3 of the rest of the pool are scum, so my making a case against one of them right now isn’t going to be a game breaker (or even a game changer, for that matter). _kicks **ShadowFacts** in the bum, and sends him back onto the playing field_ ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1351 "2008-10-08T19:01:42Z")
I don’t have a great read on any of our four vanillas but we know that 2 of them are scum. We now know that NAF is scum unfortunately one of the power role pool is scum (1/6). I think that picking out of the vanilla pool for the backup votes is the way to go but it is completely meaningless. Because no matter who gains those 2 and 3 votes NAF is gone. Despite NAFs gentle nudging for us to talk about who we’re voting for I don’t particularly care for reasons today. What we need to be talking about is a way to confirm the rest of us. But first things first; **Vote 1: NAF Vote 2: Santo Vote 3: Shadowfacts** Mhaye is claiming that he drove himself insane and is not longer verifiable. This is a good thing because everyone else should be verifiable. I believe at this point AH has been confirmed and tonight I’ll be confirmed as well. Unfortunately not much can be done toNight to confirm the rest. But tomorrow Night we could have Diggit target Rysto who can switch places between him and OAOW and after that have Diggit try and take out Total. Any how just thinking out loud in this last bit. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1352 "2008-10-08T19:24:03Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > But tomorrow Night we could have Diggit target Rysto who can switch places between him and OAOW Problem: If I switch a Vig kill onto a Townie, the Vig has to suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1353 "2008-10-08T19:25:22Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Mhaye is claiming that he drove himself insane and is not longer verifiable. This is a good thing because everyone else should be verifiable. I believe at this point AH has been confirmed and tonight I’ll be confirmed as well. Unfortunately not much can be done toNight to confirm the rest. But tomorrow Night we could have Diggit target Rysto who can switch places between him and OAOW and after that have Diggit try and take out Total. Any how just thinking out loud in this last bit. I agree with most of this, and upon reflection, even the last bit. If \*\*Rysto \*\*isn’t verified, it would totally be worth the loss of the Doc to do so. It gets a bit sticky, though, because a)it assumes our Vig will be around and b)forces the Doc to protect. If the Doc is still on our side, it would leave other roles exposed needlessly. I think this is a plan better hashed out Tomorrow. We could think of 100 scenarios Today for what we’re going to do Tomorrow Night, but when that time comes, it’s likely that 50 of those scenarios won’t be valid anymore. Yaknow, it might be worth it for **Diggit** to take a shot at a Vanilla tonight. One of three things would happen: **Oredigger** is still town: **Diggit won’t die. Oredigger is scum, Diggit kills a scum. We lose Diggit **, and kill** Oredigger** and scum, a 2-1 net gain. **Oredigger** is scum, **Diggit** kills a town. Well, that would suck, and we’d lose \*\*Diggit \*\*(who we were going to lose anyway), and we’d also gain a scum. We’d have a basicaly 1-1 trade (since \*\*Diggit \*\*was going to die anyway), but what we’d also do is almost guarantee a solid lynch the next two Days. I’ll try to run the actual numbers on a pure probability standpoint if I get a chance this evening, but at a glance, they look decent. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1354 "2008-10-08T19:27:18Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Yaknow, it might be worth it for **Diggit** to take a shot at a Vanilla tonight. He can’t can he? He’s taking a potshot at himself Tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1355 "2008-10-08T19:27:28Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > _kicks **ShadowFacts** in the bum, and sends him back onto the playing field_ NO - the Doc says: leave that cute bum alone - I’ll take care of it!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1356 "2008-10-08T19:29:21Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > This time I’ll get it right: \*\* 1. NAF 2. Zeriel 3. CatInASuit \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1357 "2008-10-08T19:33:58Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > He can’t can he? He’s taking a potshot at himself Tonight. Oh. I thought he could do his requested action plus his mandatory one? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1358 "2008-10-08T19:45:22Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Oh. I thought he could do his requested action plus his mandatory one? Not that I’m aware. This role has been described as [working like Pleo’s Vig](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10145184&postcount=4); I’ve always understood that if the Vig in that game killed a Townsperson they had to kill themselves the Night after that was mod-revealed, and certainly couldn’t kill someone else as well. Also remember, that was my role pre-reset, so I’ve seen the PM. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1359 "2008-10-08T21:39:52Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Problem: If I switch a Vig kill onto a Townie, the Vig has to suicide. Not quite if OAOW is town then the commuter power will prevent the kill but even if OAOW was driven insane on Day 3 instead of Mhaye then we can confirm the Doc the next Night to prevent the kill. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1360 "2008-10-09T03:33:25Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Not that I’m aware. > > This role has been described as [working like Pleo’s Vig](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10145184&postcount=4); I’ve always understood that if the Vig in that game killed a Townsperson they had to kill themselves the Night after that was mod-revealed, and certainly couldn’t kill someone else as well. > > Also remember, that was my role pre-reset, so I’ve seen the PM. Well, that makes four relevant questions (which may have been answered before, but still): \*\* 1. Can Sarah (aka MHaye) target herself for madness? In which case 2. Does she lose her powers permanently? 3. Does protection by a doc (any doc) prevent the Vig’s (aka myself) suicide at all? Or 4. Does said protection only delay the Vig’s suicide?\*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=69)