# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1421 "2008-10-14T14:05:30Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > **Oredigger** was confirmed when he saved **Diggit** from self mutilation. I am sorry to disagree but \*\*Oredigger \*\*was not confirmed last Night, because we don’t know who \*\*Total Lost \*\*protected. All we know is that she did not protect herself. I’ll agree it’s likely, but not confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1422 "2008-10-14T14:07:09Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > Ah, ok. There was talk of Total Lost protecting Diggit as well yesterDay and I got it into my head that that’s what happened. > > In that case Rysto can confirm himself toNight then we’d only have to choose between OAOW and MHaye on who’s been jesterised once we’ve finished with the vanilla pool. If you want to do that, you’ll have to announce it with Rysto so you guys can coordinate it. It would be better if you picked somebody who was non-confirmed, in order to try to get the scum to kill that person (to keep **Rysto** from becoming confirmed, instead of allowing them to get two birds with one stone. Also, remember that it’s possible that the third remaining scum is in the Vanilla pool. The way those three have been acting, I’m starting to think it’s a quite viable option. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1423 "2008-10-14T14:09:10Z")
> [@CatInASuit](#): > > I am sorry to disagree but \*\*Oredigger \*\*was not confirmed last Night, because we don’t know who \*\*Total Lost \*\*protected. All we know is that she did not protect herself. I’ll agree it’s likely, but not confirmed. If I were scum, I’d be trying to cast doubt by making that claim, too. I’m pretty sure \*\*Total Lost \*\*is intelligent enough to not have done so; the idea was brought up, and then stamped down _because_ it wouldn’t allow \*\*Oredigger \*\*to be confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1424 "2008-10-14T14:18:15Z")
Yep you guys are right - we shouldn’t assume the other scum isn’t in the vanilla pool. Rysto I’ll target you toNight then. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1425 "2008-10-14T15:39:50Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > . The group hurried back into the molten metal room. Once again, there was no tape recorder. DBI shrugged and shouted, “Let’s get on with it!” We know that NAF didn’t block Boozy but we know that a block occurred. Our other role blocker was dead so that leaves me the only one capable. This happened after the Jester’s conversion. How am I not confirmed? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1426 "2008-10-14T15:50:58Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > …Rysto I’ll target you toNight then. I was going to say Rysto needs to tell us who he’s going to target Tonight, but then I realized it doesn’t really matter. As long as he picks somebody who’s likely to be alive Tomorrow (i.e. a power role we can’t confirm and may need to lynch) then we should be alright. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1427 "2008-10-14T16:19:08Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > We know that NAF didn’t block Boozy but we know that a block occurred. Our other role blocker was dead so that leaves me the only one capable. This happened after the Jester’s conversion. How am I not confirmed? Good point, **Oredigger77**. Both you and \*\*NAF1138 \*\*claimed to block **Boozy Squid** , who was blocked that Night. As \*\*NAF1138 \*\*was scum the only way it could happen was for you to block it. Vanilla CatInASuit Zeriel Santo Rugger ShadowFacts Possible Power role Jester Mhaye - Sarah Connor OneandOnlyWanderers - Commuter Rysto - Bus Driver Town Almost Human - Has used vote purchase after Jester lynched. DiggitCamera - Night Killed after Jester lynched and not counter claimed. Oredigger77 - Block on Boozy Squid after Jester lynched. Have I missed anything? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1428 "2008-10-15T04:32:32Z")
We sure have an enthusiastic crowd this week. ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1429 "2008-10-15T10:08:21Z")
**Shadow Facts** if you want to have some influence on how I make you vote you’re going to have to do it today because I go away tomorrow morning. I’ll be offline tonight by midnight BST, maybe a bit earlier. And now my vote. The only one not pinging me is CIAS. I’m pretty sure Shadow or Santo are scum but have no idea which is which. If I don’t hear back from Shadow on here I’ll do his vote with my first two reversed - I may even if I do hear from him - this power is too much! **Vote 1 Shadow Facts Vote 2 Santo Vote 3 Zeriel** Btw Diggit, if you’re still uncertain of my allignment, take a look at the vote count for the end of yesterDay and you’ll see that NAF’s vote is different from what he actually posted - that should do it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1430 "2008-10-15T13:07:07Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > And if it does look like **MHaye** is going to be a plausible lynch? You’re willing to lead the bandwagon on the small chance that he might be recruited scum, instead of based on a (what you’d know if you were town) minimum 2/3 chance of bagging scum by going for somebody in the Vanilla pool who’s not yourself? I can understand going with your gut, but you supposedly have a 17 percent better chance of knowing who the remaining two scum are (50 percent for the rest of the townies, compared to 67 percent for whomever the other Vanilla is). I don’t like it one bit. Eh, my gut has so far been more accurate than my head in this round of games–and I can live with your suspicion, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1431 "2008-10-15T13:48:59Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Eh, my gut has so far been more accurate than my head in this round of games–and I can live with your suspicion, to be honest. Kindly reread the post you quoted. It’s not about going with your gut or going with your head. It’s about not making a stupid move that the numbers simply don’t support. At all, not even just a little bit. Why, oh, why would you want to hunt in a large pool when there are fish in the teeny tiny pool? It simply doesn’t make any sense at all. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying going with your gut is a bad thing, but to me, you’re trying to keep your hands clean, when we’ve got to eliminate at least two scum ASAP, and \*you \*-should- have a 2/3 chance of bagging scum. Your failure to either understand or give a shit is ridiculous. Of course you don’t care if I’m suspicious of you. I’m the most suspicious Vanilla out here, because I’ve been trying this whole game to come up with novel ideas to get a leg up for the town. And for what? Novel ideas are looked down upon in our circle. I have no idea why, I’ve done it in the past. But I finally feel the frustration of those novel ideaists who have their ideas squashed via lynch just because their slightly unorthodox ideas don’t conform to straightforward gameplay. It’s ridiculous, and I really see what you’re doing as an attempt to stay under the radar by not voting for people you _should_ know are scum. It just doesn’t make _any_ sense!!! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1432 "2008-10-15T18:12:22Z")
> [@Almost\_Human](#): > > **Shadow Facts** if you want to have some influence on how I make you vote you’re going to have to do it today because I go away tomorrow morning. I’ll be offline tonight by midnight BST, maybe a bit earlier. > > And now my vote. The only one not pinging me is CIAS. I’m pretty sure Shadow or Santo are scum but have no idea which is which. If I don’t hear back from Shadow on here I’ll do his vote with my first two reversed - I may even if I do hear from him - this power is too much! **AH** , thanks for giving me a chance to influence my own vote 🙂 I’ll try to make a compelling case for you to evaluate. If I had the ability to vote (which I don’t today), I would go with **Oredigger’s** plan of voting for which 2 of the Vanilla’s I thought were scum as my #1 and #2, and #3 would be who I thought most likely to have been Jestered. (I don’t discount the possibility that scum recruited in the Vanilla pool and that all 3 of them are scum, but I don’t regard that as probable at this point in time). My suspicion list would be: **1. Zeriel 2. Santo Rugger 3. Rysto** **Santo** and I, of course, have been bickering for a while now, so it may surprise some people that he’s not my #1. I still think his position on providing evidence for votes to be completely scummy, but I must admit I’ve agreed with almost everything he’s said toDay (e.g. post 1401 and others). We should definitely be looking at us Vanillas today as there is at least a 50% chance of hitting scum. (Before when it was 50% between **NAF** and **Oredigger** , that’s what I advocated as well, and the same reasoning applies here). I also agree with him about **Zeriel’s** vote and justification toDay (see below). I still think he’s probably scum, but my position has softened a bit, and it could be we’ve been ripping each other apart while the scum sit back and laugh. Not likely, but possible. **Zeriel** I had been leaning toward as Town until recently. Her **MHaye** vote makes no sense, IMO, and her continued defense of it seems almost petulant. I fall squarely on **Santo’s** side of their argument. I posted earlier (1413, I think?) that an **MHaye** recruitment made little sense, and even if it did, today is not the day to pursue it. The fact that she’s still at this stage voting for **MHaye** also makes me suspicious that she and **Rysto** might be working together on getting him lynched (see below). **Rysto** , I admit, I don’t have much of a case for. But he’s been on me for _no stated reasons_ for a couple Days now, and it feels like he’s been trying to smudge me enough to get me to the top of the list. (I admit there’s probably some OMGUS in there). Also he was on **MHaye** pretty hard about being recruited, then dropped it, only to have **Zeriel** pick up the ball. Is there a little coordination going on with him and **Zeriel** to get **MHaye** lynched? Not sure, but it’s more than I have on anyone else. So there you go, **AH**. Vote early and vote often! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1433 "2008-10-15T18:47:52Z")
Damn it, **Shadow**. Quit sounding all reasonable! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1434 "2008-10-15T19:09:22Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Damn it, **Shadow**. Quit sounding all reasonable! Sorry. **SANTO IS SCUMMMMMMMMMM!!!** ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1435 "2008-10-15T19:36:10Z")
I shouldn’t be surprised at Zeriel voting for me; it’s certainly consistent with the position he took Yesterday. However, a generous analysis of his motives suggest that his position is based on a failure to think through the consequences of my doing what he seems to think I should have done. My role gave me a power with a visible effect on the game; the cessation of it was something that was bound to raise some eyebrows and cause suspicion to come my way (as, note, it actually did.) This would deter the Jester from recruiting me, just as it (apparently) deterred him from recruiting SquidDio, Almost Human and Oredigger. If I had broadcast my loss of sanity on the Day it happened, the effect would have been to make me a viable candidate for recruitment. After all, android me would be able to point to the fact my power had already been lost as a reason for not influencing votes any more. Additionally, whether I was recruited or not, the mere fact that I was a plausible candidate would have clouded the waters - the more realistic candidates for recruitment the T-1000s had, the harder it would be to identify the actual recruit. In addition, by hiding the fact that I wasn’t depowering people any more, I set up a chance to catch the recruit in a lie, should the Jester recruit a power role with a detectable result.(I think I covered this Yesterday). The fact that the Jester avoided the trap doesn’t undermine the validity of the reasoning behind the action. In short, speaking up was definitely an aid to the T-1000s in that situation, and remaining silent created the possibility of a Town gain. Thus, by all the data I had available on Day 3, it was, on balance, pro-Town to remain silent about my insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1436 "2008-10-15T19:52:01Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Sorry. > **SANTO IS SCUMMMMMMMMMM!!!** Prof that you thinking me being scum is an unreasonable position. Gotcha ya! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1437 "2008-10-15T20:19:12Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Prof that you thinking me being scum is an unreasonable position. Gotcha ya! Dagnabbit - foiled again! I would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for that meddling scum and his rugby ball. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1438 "2008-10-15T20:21:27Z")
Okay, seriously, people, let’s get some votes in. The longer it takes us, the easier it will be for scum to manipulate it at the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1439 "2008-10-15T20:58:40Z")
I don’t think the time of Nightfall has been announced either. **O Game Organiser, when is the Day to end?** We have five votes so far, and can expect Almost Human to pin down the SHadowfacts vote before she goes globehopping. One and Only Wanderers should be back from Holland today. (I’m jealous. Why can’t my employers send me to Holland?) He did say he’d not be able to participate until he returned. That just leaves CIAS, Rysto and myself. As far as I’m concerned, the richest area to mine remains the vanilla pool, so I’m likely to be voting for people in that pool. There are at least two, and maybe three, T-1000s in that pool. The only candidates for me to vote for outside the vanilla pool would be Rysto and OaOW, either of whom might have been recruited. Since there’s a proposal on the table to confirm Rysto, I don’t think that following that line is worthwhile Today. OaOW (like me, if you don’t _know_ my alignment) cannot be confirmed through actions. I want to go back over the game and read some stuff to see if a possible test yields any fruit before I vote. ---
**Author:** ![Almost\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Almost\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Almost_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1440 "2008-10-15T21:14:50Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > If I had the ability to vote (which I don’t today), I would go with **Oredigger’s** plan of voting for which 2 of the Vanilla’s I thought were scum as my #1 and #2, and #3 would be who I thought most likely to have been Jestered. (I don’t discount the possibility that scum recruited in the Vanilla pool and that all 3 of them are scum, but I don’t regard that as probable at this point in time). > > My suspicion list would be: > **1. Zeriel > 2. Santo Rugger > 3. Rysto** > > **Santo** and I, of course, have been bickering for a while now, so it may surprise some people that he’s not my #1. I still think his position on providing evidence for votes to be completely scummy, but I must admit I’ve agreed with almost everything he’s said toDay (e.g. post 1401 and others). We should definitely be looking at us Vanillas today as there is at least a 50% chance of hitting scum. (Before when it was 50% between **NAF** and **Oredigger** , that’s what I advocated as well, and the same reasoning applies here). I also agree with him about **Zeriel’s** vote and justification toDay (see below). I still think he’s probably scum, but my position has softened a bit, and it could be we’ve been ripping each other apart while the scum sit back and laugh. Not likely, but possible. > > **Zeriel** I had been leaning toward as Town until recently. Her **MHaye** vote makes no sense, IMO, and her continued defense of it seems almost petulant. I fall squarely on **Santo’s** side of their argument. I posted earlier (1413, I think?) that an **MHaye** recruitment made little sense, and even if it did, today is not the day to pursue it. The fact that she’s still at this stage voting for **MHaye** also makes me suspicious that she and **Rysto** might be working together on getting him lynched (see below). > > **Rysto** , I admit, I don’t have much of a case for. But he’s been on me for _no stated reasons_ for a couple Days now, and it feels like he’s been trying to smudge me enough to get me to the top of the list. (I admit there’s probably some OMGUS in there). Also he was on **MHaye** pretty hard about being recruited, then dropped it, only to have **Zeriel** pick up the ball. Is there a little coordination going on with him and **Zeriel** to get **MHaye** lynched? Not sure, but it’s more than I have on anyone else. > > So there you go, **AH**. Vote early and vote often! 😃 OK so I’ve gone with the first 2 and put you as third (cos I’m a bitch). Anyway we’ll hopefully confirm Rysto tonight anyway. If I’ve added things up right the leading vote getters once you’ve posted your vote will be Shadow Facts with 10 Santo with 8 Zeriel with 7 Cat with 6 So it’s a lot closer than I thought. I hadn’t realised CAT and Zeriel were so close to the top as neither of them were voted for as a first choice by anyone apart from Shadow on Zeriel just now. Can I just say that I really dislike borda counts? Ok guys have a great weekend 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=73)