# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1461 "2008-10-17T01:27:13Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I stuck with my vote because NAF’s story was frankly and obviously bullshit, in my view. In _retrospect_, yes. At the time, nothing was obvious, at least not to me, and apparently a good number of other people. I think you’re falling victim to perfect information syndrome. With the knowledge that **NAF** ’s scum it’s obvious what he was pulling. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1462 "2008-10-17T01:42:44Z")
Vote Count! Complete Votes: Zeriel: 1. CatInASuit, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. Mhaye Santo Rugger: 1. Shadow Facts, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Zeriel Oredigger77: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Zeriel, 3. Rysto DiggitCamera: 1. ShadowFacts, 2. CatInASuit, 3. AH Almost Human: 1. ShadowFacts, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. Zeriel Shadow Fact: 1. Zeriel, 2. Santo, 3. Shadow Facts OaOW: 1. Zeriel, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Santo Mhaye: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Zeriel, 3. Shadow Facts Rysto: 1. Zeriel, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Mhaye Totals: Zeriel: (15) (Rysto 1st, Shadow Facts 1st, OaOW 1st, Oredigger 2nd, Mhaye 2nd, Santo Rugger 3rd, AH 3rd) Shadow Facts: (15) (Santo Rugger 1st, Diggit Camera 1st, AH 1st, Rysto 2nd, OaOW 2nd, Shadow Facts 3rd, Mhaye 3rd) Santo Rugger: (13) (Mhaye 1st, Oredigger 1st, Shadow Facts 2nd, AH 2nd, Zeriel 2nd, OaOW 3rd) CatInASuit: (7) (Zeriel 1st, DiggitCamera 2nd, Santo Rugger 2nd) Mhaye: (2) (Zeriel 3rd, Rysto 3rd) Rysto: (1) (Oredigger 3rd) AH: (1) (DiggitCamera 3rd) ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1463 "2008-10-17T02:11:17Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > In _retrospect_, yes. At the time, nothing was obvious, at least not to me, and apparently a good number of other people. I think you’re falling victim to perfect information syndrome. With the knowledge that **NAF** ’s scum it’s obvious what he was pulling. All I know is what I felt it to be at the time–like I said toDay, my gut is way more accurate than my brain lately so I’m running with that. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1464 "2008-10-17T02:12:47Z")
Aside: This vote count is what I was talking about upthread–those 3rd votes are going to make or break the lynch here. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1465 "2008-10-17T03:09:35Z")
It seems we are approching a tied vote. I’m not sure I addressed it earlier, but such an event would result in a no lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1466 "2008-10-17T05:07:46Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > I think that, right this minute, Santo Rugger’s lassaiz-faire attitude, which is at odds with what I remember of his playstyle in other games (whether Town or not) is nagging at me the most. Welp, I’m not acting like I’m Town or Scum… I must be PFK! :rolleyes: Or something. **Z-man** , how _extraordinary_ that, with 4 people on the block, so to speak, and 3 votes apiece, that the votes are close. I never would’ve thunk it. Okay, I’m done being an asshole, time for sleepy. One more serious comment: I really don’t know what to put together, I don’t have time for a reread, and I know 2/3 of those guys are scum. That’s all I’ve got, though. ☹ As for my math error, you’ll notice I also said somewhere that I was sure the game was go to three handed. I’m not sure where or how I messed the numbers up, but I think what I did was go from that 3, and added in a Day and Night kill, giving 5, and another, giving 7. Stupid, yes, but it’s a lot like the old [bellboy problem](http://www.esmerel.com/circle/numeracy/bellboy.html).I just went in the wrong direction. Sorry for being lazy, **MHaye** … don’t know what to tell ya. I’ve been working on this huge calculation for the last 3 months at work, and they decided today that they’re gunna scrap all of it and just do an FEA (finite element analysis). :(:mad: Fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1467 "2008-10-17T06:08:46Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > It seems we are approching a tied vote. I’m not sure I addressed it earlier, but such an event would result in a no lynch. OK-Dokey. Like someone pointed out, my vote for AH isn’t exactly well thought out. So: 1. **Unvote AH** 2. **Vote Zeriel** ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1468 "2008-10-17T07:25:53Z")
**unvote 2. Shadow Facts unvote 3. Santo Rugger** **vote 2 Santo Rugger vote 3 Shadow facts** lets move away from the tie huh? ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1469 "2008-10-17T09:06:17Z")
Ok, finally some time to read through and look at the posts of the three remaining claimed vanilla. Notes note completed due to lack of time. Notable points I picked up on the way: **Cookies/Zeriel** : Labelled as Discourager of discourse by Santo Votes rugger 2nd, based on SC idea and other comments Votes for an uncontested power role, Squid Zeriel took over: Had the misvote for OAOW & Santo Rugger, quickly switched to Oredigger and Zeriel First Votes for an unconfirmed power role MHaye. **Shadowfacts** : Comment to Santo Rugger about the SC plan. Has a go at NBC during role claim time. Double vote for two uncontested power roles, followed by next Day explanation. Votes NBC at start of Day 3 Defence of Zeriel during Day Voted for Oredigger to make a point **Santo Rugger:** Ok, so we have the whole Day 1, let’s lynch Sarah Connor, because she is so anti-town. Slight back and forth between ShadowFacts and Santo Rugger on Day 1 as well. Comment after Night 1, that we should lynch SC again. Issue surrounding who the Jester can recruit. Back and forth with Shadowfacts Comment on not wanting to see NBC lynched as we should be lynching the third most scummy person?? Wants to have himself lynched as it will help the Town? Followed by major back and forth between Santo Rugger and Shadowfacts followed by a comment on Tag Teaming. First off, the comments that one or other of Shadowfacts and Santo Rugger are WIFOM. It could be one scum and one town, or both scum hoping that people think it is one scum and one town. I am going to assume nothing as both are possible. Ok, trying to look at them from the different viewpoints, ie playing as Scum or Town., Looking back over the Days, I have gone over Santo’s SC plan, Cookies/Zeriel voting for unconfirmed power roles and Shadowfacts having a major attack on Santo Rugger. It is possiblities that make me vote for Santo Rugger. A comment about why Oredigger was confirmed based on last Night’s plan. I would have thought that given the game so far relying on people to do what is expected is nice but not confirmable. His reasoning as for why Oredigger was confirmed was incorrect, but he stated it as fact. Oredigger proved why he was confirmed shortly afterwards. Trusting play hoping Total Lost had done as he had thought or he knew something extra. **1. Santo Rugger** He has slipped under my radar for quite a while and not doing anything outstanding apart from the major set to with Santo. Based on my thoughts that Santo is scum, this looks like a setup to try and clear one or other of them based on who gets lynched. **2. ShadowFacts** I could vote for Zeriel as vanilla, as his actions have been scummy, but he doesn’t seem to fit with the other two. And I have spent this morning more looking for connections between vanilla scum as much as anything else. This leaves the Jester vote, and there are four people, I believe it could be. 1 vanilla and 3 power role. Decisions, decisions. I think it unlikely they went for another vanilla as it the vanilla but for a power role. Of those, I think the person most likely to fit the bill is MHaye. His comment about loss of Night power due to insanity and keeping it hidden for two Days seems self serving. **3. MHaye** ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1470 "2008-10-17T12:33:48Z")
Vote Count! Complete Votes: Zeriel: 1. CatInASuit, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. Mhaye Santo Rugger: 1. Shadow Facts, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Zeriel Oredigger77: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Zeriel, 3. Rysto DiggitCamera: 1. ShadowFacts, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Zeriel Almost Human: 1. ShadowFacts, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. Zeriel Shadow Fact: 1. Zeriel, 2. Santo, 3. Shadow Facts OaOW: 1. Zeriel, 2. Santo, 3. Shadow Facts Mhaye: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Zeriel, 3. Shadow Facts Rysto: 1. Zeriel, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Mhaye CatInASuit: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Mhaye Totals: Santo Rugger: (17) (CatInASuit 1st, Mhaye 1st, Oredigger 1st, Shadow Facts 2nd, AH 2nd, Zeriel 2nd, OaOW 2nd) Zeriel: (16) (Rysto 1st, Shadow Facts 1st, OaOW 1st, Oredigger 2nd, Mhaye 2nd, Santo Rugger 3rd, AH 3rd, Diggit Camera 3rd) Shadow Facts: (16) (Santo Rugger 1st, Diggit Camera 1st, AH 1st, Rysto 2nd, CatInASuit 2nd, OaOW 3rd, Shadow Facts 3rd, Mhaye 3rd) CatInASuit: (7) (Zeriel 1st, DiggitCamera 2nd, Santo Rugger 2nd) Mhaye: (3) (Zeriel 3rd, Rysto 3rd, CatInASuit 3rd) Rysto: (1) (Oredigger 3rd) ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1471 "2008-10-17T13:40:27Z")
**unvote 2 Santo** **vote CIAS** because I want to promote a zeriel lynch ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1472 "2008-10-17T13:41:29Z")
**vote 2 CIAS** EBWOP ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1473 "2008-10-17T14:21:35Z")
As I know I’m town, I prefer to not die. unvote: 1. CatinASuit 2. Santo Rugger 3. Mhaye vote: 4. Santo Rugger 5. CatinASuit 6. Mhaye ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1474 "2008-10-17T14:24:26Z")
I will change my vote near the deadline at noon in whatever way I can, even if it means voting for myself, in order to make sure we do not have a no-lynch–as I understand it, that would screw up our pattern of scum-killing and deny us much of what the mass roleclaim was meant to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1475 "2008-10-17T14:28:06Z")
Is my count off, or do we have a three-way tie here? These last-minute vote switches are shady as hell. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1476 "2008-10-17T14:41:35Z")
Yes, a no lynch would be terrible. Basically gives the scum a free night kill when we have a 50% (or more) chance of lynching one. Sadly, **AH** has my vote and she’s gone, so there’s not a damn thing I can do about it but sit and watch. **Rysto** , the vote switches started happening after everyone voted and there was a tie. How is it shady to get us out of a tie? Get real. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1477 "2008-10-17T14:45:01Z")
Vote Count! Complete Votes: Zeriel: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Mhaye Santo Rugger: 1. Shadow Facts, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Zeriel Oredigger77: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Zeriel, 3. Rysto DiggitCamera: 1. ShadowFacts, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Zeriel Almost Human: 1. ShadowFacts, 2. Santo Rugger, 3. Zeriel Shadow Fact: 1. Zeriel, 2. Santo, 3. Shadow Facts OaOW: 1. Zeriel, 2. CatInASuit, 3. Shadow Facts Mhaye: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Zeriel, 3. Shadow Facts Rysto: 1. Zeriel, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Mhaye CatInASuit: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. Shadow Facts, 3. Mhaye Totals: Santo Rugger: (16) (Zeriel 1st, CatInASuit 1st, Mhaye 1st, Oredigger 1st, Shadow Facts 2nd, AH 2nd) Zeriel: (16) (Rysto 1st, Shadow Facts 1st, OaOW 1st, Oredigger 2nd, Mhaye 2nd, Santo Rugger 3rd, AH 3rd, Diggit Camera 3rd) Shadow Facts: (16) (Santo Rugger 1st, Diggit Camera 1st, AH 1st, Rysto 2nd, CatInASuit 2nd, OaOW 3rd, Shadow Facts 3rd, Mhaye 3rd) CatInASuit: (8) (Zeriel 2nd, DiggitCamera 2nd, Santo Rugger 2nd, OaOW 2nd) Mhaye: (3) (Zeriel 3rd, Rysto 3rd, CatInASuit 3rd) Rysto: (1) (Oredigger 3rd) You’ve got an hour and 15 min. before the deadline, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1478 "2008-10-17T14:46:50Z")
We have a three way tie. If it stays this way, at 11:45 I’ll switch my #1 vote to ShadowFacts. If it changes, I will switch my votes in whatever way necessary to lynch someone, even if I have to vote for myself (as would be the case if Shadow loses votes but Santo and myself remain tied.). ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1479 "2008-10-17T14:48:48Z")
After OaoW’slynch there was a two-way tie between Zeriel and ShadowFacts. With Zeriel’s vote it’s a three-way tie, with Santo Rugger added. OaOW _said_ that he wished to promote a Zeriel lynch, but in fact he created a tie. He had the power to avoid creating a tie since he also has a vote on ShadowFacts, which he could have removed at the same time, but did not. I consider self-preservation voting a null tell, especially in the current gamestate. Thus, this does not increase my suspicion of Zeriel. It does put OaOW on the radar as a possible recruit though. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1480 "2008-10-17T14:51:15Z")
Correction to the first sentence, which is a bit garbled. For “After OaoW’slynch there was a two-way tie between Zeriel and ShadowFacts.” read “After OaOW’s **vote** , there was a two-way tie between Zeriel and ShadowFacts.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=75)