# Mafia--T2: Behind the Scenes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699 "2008-09-02T17:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1541 "2008-10-23T15:03:50Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Just to clarify, you’re talking about the intimidation, not the driving crazy, correct? To answer the question indirectly. The intimidation power was (a) voluntary (in that I did not have to use it every day) and (b) selected (in that I chose of my own will who to affect, and whether to intimidate or protect them). Driving people insane was (a) involuntary (it happened whether I wanted it to or not) and (b) random (in that the list of people to affect was generated by a randomiser). ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1542 "2008-10-23T15:17:01Z")
I think I’m going to have to change my vote. I was just reading through and something struck me about Santo. First off he tried to get himself lynched, which, at the time, I took as a possible Jester move. It obviously wasn’t but what was it; by asking to be lynched he would either remove himself from the lynch pool increasing our chances of hitting the Jester, or he would get lynched and shrink the pool. I don’t think that there is anyway to parse this without the second bit. Santo suggested that we lynch the third scummiest person. This probably would have been a good strategy to follow but it seemed kinda oddball at the time because it would have increased our chances of lynching town (maybe) and only slightly decreased our chances of lynching the Jester. The reason I like the look at these two together is because they are two scummy ideas on the surface but both can be seen as having a townie back. I think that my ideas come across this way which is why I draw so much heat and it seems that the same is happening to Santo. Sorry if this isn’t very clear my brain doesn’t work very well in the mornings. I’ll clarify if anyone wants me to. **Unvote All** **Vote 1: Z Vote 2: CIAS Vote 3: OAOW** Since I don’t think Santo is scum I just replaced him with our last vanilla claimant. I don’t particularly like that because it puts CIAS into the lead and I would rather have Z swing. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1543 "2008-10-23T15:46:25Z")
A question. **Does the death of the Politician void the purchase of the vote they made the Night they died?** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1544 "2008-10-23T15:47:59Z")
**Oredigger** , I’m curious as to whether you can re-articulate your suspicion of me a little more. I’d also like to make a note of the following. When **Oredigger** voted me, **Shadow** , and **OaOW** at the beginning of toDay, **pedescribe** appeared to count it as a fully legitimate vote (see the count in [post 1515](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10337077&postcount=1515). If this was intentional, knowing there are two scum left, it might behoove us to place our third-place votes on a already-dead scum, to reduce the odds of ties and, for example, **Oredigger’s** dilemma above where shifting his lower vote puts someone less than optimal into his top slot. In fact: unvote 3. Rysto vote 3. Shadow Facts Is my vote still valid and complete? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1545 "2008-10-23T16:00:43Z")
Vote Count! Votes: OaOW: 1. Zeriel, 2. Mhaye, 3. CiaS Oredigger: 1. Zeriel, 2. CiaS, 3. OaOW CatInASuit: 1. Santo, 2. Mhaye, 3. Zeriel DiggitCamera: 1. CatInASuit, 2. Mhaye, 3. Santo Rugger Santo: 1. CiaS, 2. Zeriel, 3. Mhaye Mhaye: 1. Santo Rugger, 2. OaOW, 3. Zeriel Incomplete Votes: Zeriel: 1. CatInASuit, 2. Santo, 3. Shadow WARNING: INCOMPLETE VOTES DO NOT COUNT TOWARD DUSK TALLIES! Totals: CatInASuit: (12) (Santo 1st, DiggitCamera 1st, Zeriel 1st, Oredigger 2nd, OaOW 3rd) Zeriel: (10) (OaOW 1st, Oredigger 1st, Santo 2nd, CatInASuit 3rd, Mhaye 3rd) Santo Rugger: (9) (Mhaye 1st, CatInASuit 1st, Zeriel 2nd, DiggitCamera 3rd) Mhaye: (7) (DiggitCamera 2nd, CatInASuit 2nd, OaOW 2nd, Santo 3rd) OaOW: (3) (Mhaye 2nd, Oredigger 3rd) ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1546 "2008-10-23T16:01:46Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > A question. > > **Does the death of the Politician void the purchase of the vote they made the Night they died?** Sorta. The politician has made the purchase, but can no longer direct the vote (due to being dead), meaning the target is still waiting for orders. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1547 "2008-10-23T16:03:02Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > A question. > > **Does the death of the Politician void the purchase of the vote they made the Night they died?** :mad: I was really, really hoping that you guys wouldn’t think to ask that question. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1548 "2008-10-23T16:11:39Z")
**Has Night fallen yet?** ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1549 "2008-10-23T16:12:43Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > **Has Night fallen yet?** Uh…no? That happens tomorrow at noon. Why would you think otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1550 "2008-10-23T16:18:33Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Uh…no? That happens tomorrow at noon. Why would you think otherwise? Somehow I got it into my head that Dusk was today at 5pm, not tomorrow. Sorry. No _wonder_ everything was so quiet. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1551 "2008-10-23T16:20:06Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > :mad: > > I was really, really hoping that you guys wouldn’t think to ask that question. why? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1552 "2008-10-23T16:37:00Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > why? Do you not remember the Night Six Plan? Almost Human was to buy Rysto’s vote. Rysto was to use his power as the Bus Driver to redirect that action onto another, one of the vanilla pool members. Because AH was killed last Night, we were unable to confirm that she sent anything to Pedescribe about her purchase (it was _possible_ that she might have forgotten, after all). And if she did, it might have been that the Politician’s action was nullified by death. We now know that if AH remembered to PM Pedescribe with her purchase, that (a) the player would be unable to vote without AHs instruction, and (b) AH, being dead, can’t issue instructions. _Therefore_. whoever has had their vote bought, can’t vote Today. Rysto is the only person who has not voted. Therefore, if anyone has had their vote bought, it is Rysto. But Rysto was supposed to redirect AHs action onto one of the Vanillas. He didn’t. Why not? Either he forgot, or he can’t. In other words, it makes Rysto a viable candidate for having been recruited. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1553 "2008-10-23T16:59:07Z")
So you’re saying Rysto is scum? But that doesn’t make sense, because why would the scum kill AH on a Night that would implicate one of their members? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1554 "2008-10-23T17:51:48Z")
On the other hand, Rysto’s reaction is … not exactly townlike. Thanks for the backhand answer, pedescribe. **unvote 3. shadow facts** **vote 3. Rysto** ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1555 "2008-10-23T17:52:37Z")
Rysto isn’t implicated ebcause AH was killed. He is implicated because he didn’t redirect the vote buying. AH was killed because scum hoped to hide the fact that Rystro was no longer a bus driver **unvote 1.zeriel** **vote 1. Rysto** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1556 "2008-10-23T17:52:57Z")
Hey, Rysto, why don’t you explain for us your “I hoped you guys wouldn’t notice” comment. Take your time. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1557 "2008-10-23T18:12:35Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > So you’re saying Rysto is scum? But that doesn’t make sense, because why would the scum kill AH on a Night that would implicate one of their members? It’s been well summarised while I was out buying tea, but here’s my take. The Politician bought a vote at Night, so the subject can’t vote without instruction from AH. AH is dead, so that instruction will not be forthcoming. Therefore the Politician’s subject can’t place a valid vote. Seven players out of eight have placed valid votes - see [post=10348705]this vote count[/post]. Rysto was the only non-voter, therefore Rysto is the only candidate for the Politician’s Night action. [post=10350628]Rysto’s reaction[/post] makes it clear that he cannot vote. (He could have claimed the power was not used on him, but the lack of valid votes appearing in the votecout would undermine that like it did NAF’s claim on Day 5). The Day 6 plan was for AH to buy Rysto’s vote, and Rysto to redirect it. Rysto did not redirect. Why not? There are only two feasible answers.[ol][li]He forgot to send the PM in.[/li][\*]He can’t use his power.[/ol]Which do you think it was? IN the light of Rysto’s reaction? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1558 "2008-10-23T18:25:20Z")
I just thought it through–the only close-to-plausible way out for the scum in this instance would have been for the scum in the vanilla pool to have claimed to be unable to vote. Of course, that would risk someone noticing, as you did anyway, that Rysto also didn’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1559 "2008-10-23T18:42:46Z")
\*\*Unvote All 1. Vote Rysto 2. Vote Catina 3. Vote Zerial\*\* So, as long as you guys don’t lynch me, we’re guaranteed to win this one! ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699/1560 "2008-10-23T18:57:58Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > **Oredigger** , I’m curious as to whether you can re-articulate your suspicion of me a little more. Umm . . . Well, not really. My suspicion of you has been one of those things in the back of my mind for a while. I have no basis for it and in fact until I started my read through you were second on my list of candidates to lynch in the vanilla pool mainly because CIAS has been vanilla and I’m not getting much of a read there one way or another. But after I thought through Santo’s actions I came to the conclusion that he is probably not scum. Since I know one of the three of you are scum, I think that it is most likely you. My comment about wanting to lynch you over CIAS has more to do with the fact that I have to move him to number 2 to replace Santo which is essentially wasting my first place vote for you. But none of that matter and after we get scum today I’ll give you a full reread and see if I come to the same conclusion. In the mean time: **Unvote All** **Vote 1: Rysto Vote 2: Z Vote 3: CIAS** I can’t believe that was a slip by our ‘bus driver’. What should have come out was I forgot to send it my choice not I hoped you wouldn’t notice I can’t imagine a protown motive to hide it if he made a mistake so into the molten metal he goes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=77) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-t2-behind-the-scenes/461699.md?page=79)