# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/261 "2015-07-21T06:30:47Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I mostly agree with this, other than the importance of masons, and regular townies in general. > > This I don’t agree with. He has posted a total of seven posts in an already six page thread, not even reasonably explained himself, and five of his posts are in my record-keeping document already. If he’s town, fine, he in my opinion seems very confused _and there’s not a lot lost_, no offense, if he’s not there’s **it’s a kill**. Same goes for everyone right now. I’m keeping my vote for Precambrianmollusc for now, because some of his/her posts have also pinged me and I like to keep things a bit interesting, but I’m very tempted to change that. Sorry, I basically said the opposite of what I was trying to say. At least I give it a try, I guess is the gist of it. (I’m not usually a very active poster, I mostly lurk.) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/262 "2015-07-21T07:53:24Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Sorry, I basically said the opposite of what I was trying to say… Your comment made good sense to me. But now you say you meant the opposite; _that_ confuses me. > [@Nonsuch](#): > > On a purely practical level, trying to engineer ties sounds like herding a bunch of exceptionally willful and stubborn cats. I’m trying to imagine a process that doesn’t end in a morass of finger-pointing, accusations and counter-accusations. Might be terribly fun for the people following along, less so for those of us trying to stay alive and kill scum. I agree with this. We shouldn’t try to enforce any policies on ties. If someone votes or unvotes a Lynch leader near EOD, I’ll just assume they’re hunting scum. But tie-breaking does give us something to talk about, and lets us offer advice to our Masons. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/263 "2015-07-21T12:51:28Z")
Mafia looks like it ought to be a textbook case for Game Theory. But is it in actual practice? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/264 "2015-07-21T13:18:18Z")
Well let me just say that if me not posting daily and hourly is going to be a problem and draw suspicion to me, well then, call me suspect. The site I used to play mafia on was a little more downscaled. We had maybe 12 players at the most and the day and night cycles lasted usually 24 hours a piece - sometimes less if all results were in or a lynch was sealed. I’m not used to this format yet, where we have to post 6 or 10 times a day and the cycles last multiple real days. Its a lot to dive into, having not played a game in a couple years. I will say that the way you guys play is a bit intimidating, but I am here and willing - but I am also working during the day and cant stay on the site reading and posting all day in plain view of my boss. So I will post more if possible and be more active since it seems to be an issue with some. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/265 "2015-07-21T13:32:35Z")
Oh, and in regards to this post… _Originally Posted by Dante G View Post Total Scum move, Jimmy. LOL_ That, was just a joke, hence the “LOL” afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/266 "2015-07-21T14:11:33Z")
If you are curious, we have an ongoing thread called “Let’s Improve how we play mafia”, which you can read if you like. Some of us have discussed our theories of the game and how we think it should be played, etc. [Let’s improve how we play mafia.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=654556) Now a cheap side-point. There is another game in sign-ups if you want to join. It’s on giraffe boards and I’m sure they need people. [Greek History Mafia.](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1196556#post1196556) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/267 "2015-07-21T14:20:01Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Sorry, I basically said the opposite of what I was trying to say. So you’re **not** suspicious of **Precambrianmollusc**? And yet you’re still voting for him? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/268 "2015-07-21T14:48:17Z")
I tried to say if he was town, it isn’t such a big loss, and that if he is wolf, it’s a kill. Instead I said, and I’ll quote only the relevant part: > [@](#): > > If he’s town, fine, he in my opinion seems very confused, if he’s not there’s not a lot lost, no offense. Since him being a wolf is a good thing, it’s true there’s nothing lost, since it’s a gain. I tried to change that to: > [@](#): > > If he’s town, fine, he in my opinion seems very confused and there’s not a lot lost, no offense, if he’s not there’s it’s a kill. in my next post where I quoted myself, but I apparently made it even more confusing. Sorry for that, I hope this clears up the confusion. I should probably stop posting that early in the morning… ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/269 "2015-07-21T15:00:03Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > So you’re **not** suspicious of **Precambrianmollusc**? And yet you’re still voting for him? 😕 I’m suspicious about him, the opposite was reffering to **Dante G** where I suddenly found myself saying there wouldn’t be a loss if he where to be a wolf, which sounds weird. That is a gain, not not a loss! Again sorry for this confusion. I hope I’ve made myself and my position a bit clear, and just for completeness sake, I’ll repost my correction of my own statement: > [@](#): > > This I don’t agree with. He has posted a total of seven posts in an already six page thread, not even reasonably explained himself, and five of his posts are in my record-keeping document already. **If he’s town, fine, he in my opinion seems very confused and there’s not a lot lost, no offense, if he’s not there’s it’s a kill.** Same goes for everyone right now. I’m keeping my vote for Precambrianmollusc for now, because some of his/her posts have also pinged me and I like to keep things a bit interesting, but I’m very tempted to change that. I’ve bolded the part where I had to correct myself. Sorry for the clutter, as I’ve said, I’m not a very active poster, as most people on SDMB have more interesting things to write than I do. I’ll try to be more careful in the future regarding making myself clear and formatting better. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/270 "2015-07-21T15:29:55Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Well let me just say that if me not posting daily and hourly is going to be a problem and draw suspicion to me, well then, call me suspect. The site I used to play mafia on was a little more downscaled. We had maybe 12 players at the most and the day and night cycles lasted usually 24 hours a piece - sometimes less if all results were in or a lynch was sealed. How many games of mafia have you played? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/271 "2015-07-21T15:30:49Z")
I’m not going to venture a vote till a bit later in the game Day. I gather that Day One votes are often somewhat arbitrary, but right now I’m still taking it all in and hoping to see something that sways me one way or the other before the end of the Day. I think **Dante G** is probably a townie. I tend to believe that his earlier posts were just offhand chatter and that he’s not accustomed to the nitpicky SDMB culture. I made a couple early offhand posts that people jumped on as well, so I can see where **Dante G** is coming from. I may, of course, be persuaded otherwise, but for now I think he’s probably OK. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/272 "2015-07-21T15:33:52Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I tried to say if he was town, it isn’t such a big loss, and that if he is wolf, it’s a kill. This is the sort of fake-analysis that scum tend to do. It looks relevant and thoughtful, but it’s actually a bland statement that literally applies to everyone in the thread so far. Worse, lynching townies is in fact a big loss. Not an insurmountable one, of course, but we don’t have an unbounded supply of warm bodies here. So why post such a vague bit of nonsense as a justification for a vote? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/273 "2015-07-21T15:35:23Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > If you are curious, we have an ongoing thread called “Let’s Improve how we play mafia”, which you can read if you like. Some of us have discussed our theories of the game and how we think it should be played, etc. > > [Let’s improve how we play mafia.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=654556) > > Now a cheap side-point. There is another game in sign-ups if you want to join. It’s on giraffe boards and I’m sure they need people. [Greek History Mafia.](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?p=1196556#post1196556) Thank you. I’ll study that when I get the time. It looks very helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/274 "2015-07-21T15:35:47Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > How many games of mafia have you played? I’ve played about 40+ games and moderated about 20 myself, all on another site. I explained more about this in my recent post in The Game Room/How To Improve Mafia thread. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/275 "2015-07-21T15:39:58Z")
So, basically, in this game ordinary Townies should just vote for whoever they think is scummiest. But Masons and Wolves have to balance three competing imperatives: 1. Stay out of ties 2. Don’t be too obvious about doing so 3. And, oh yeah, try to vote for members of the other team This is great for Town! While only one-fifth of our team has to consider voting based on considerations other than lynching the other guys, ALL of their team is laboring under that burden. And of course, if a Mason’s behavior attracts suspicion, s/he just has to claim to avoid being lynched, while a Wolf doesn’t have that option. I don’t think we should be overly concerned about trying to protect the Masons. Obviously they should do their best to avoid standing out, and it would be great if they can all survive until the endgame, when their mass reveal could deal a deathblow to the wolves. But that’s very unlikely to happen; given that 15% of all players are Masons, if we assume that lynches and NKs happen at random, there’s about a 50% chance that a Mason will either be killed or forced to claim just within the first two days. In this game, where Mason tells look just like Wolf tells, the odds are probably even worse. So we shouldn’t make ourselves too crazy trying to maximize the chances of an outcome which will always be highly unlikely. BTW, I and others have been careful to use non-sexist language like “s/he” so far, but are there actually any women in this game? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/276 "2015-07-21T15:45:46Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > On the discussion of ties, why would the first mason be worried about NK’s? Yeah, maybe the first mason dies, but so what? Who cares, apart from the eventual super-enthusiastic beginner? He’s a vanilla town with a small portion of information, certainly more than most, it’s still galaxies away from a wolf. They can’t strategize hidden away from all of us, and they have no powers. We, the general public of our village may even learn some of what the masons know, for the benefit of us all. _If_ it ever comes up… Have to disagree on this one. During the endgame the weight of the individual votes might make the remaining wolves very dangerous and the survival of the Mason(s) would be extremely important. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/277 "2015-07-21T15:48:51Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Similarly, I must have missed the post where Chronos said “we should engineer a tie”, or anything that could reasonably be interpreted as such. He literally used those words. [quote=“Thing\_Fish, post:240, topic:725099”] Eh, I guess he did kind of say that, albeit for some hypothetical future in which the First Mason is verified. Sorry,\*\* JSexton.\*\* Ah, and then you went back and looked and found them. Thing Fish gets townie points here. Open-mindedness and research. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/278 "2015-07-21T15:55:12Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > This is the sort of fake-analysis that scum tend to do. It looks relevant and thoughtful, but it’s actually a bland statement that literally applies to everyone in the thread so far. Worse, lynching townies is in fact a big loss. Not an insurmountable one, of course, but we don’t have an unbounded supply of warm bodies here. So why post such a vague bit of nonsense as a justification for a vote? You failed to include the part where I explicitly said that this goes for everyone in your quote. As you said, it applies to everyone, because we’re still on Day One. Also, I’m not using this as justification to vote for **Dante G** either, I’m still keeping my vote on **Precambrianmollusc** , so I’m not sure where you are getting that from. Right now, we have no more information to go on than whatever blunders people have managed to submit to the thread and some posters, me included, have blundered a bit more than others. That is, I’m not very sentimental about loosing a townie Day One, especially if there’s some information to gain by it later in the game. I also wanna say for the record, I’m actually not for engineering ties, I just want people to keep it in mind as a potentially viable tactic, and the more we discuss it, the more people will come to understand the ways it may be used. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/279 "2015-07-21T16:04:44Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Have to disagree on this one. During the endgame the weight of the individual votes might make the remaining wolves very dangerous and the survival of the Mason(s) would be extremely important. I would imagine the chances for the Masons to stay hidden until the endgame is quite slim? How likely would a scenario with uncomfired masons and the wolves in a tight race towards the endgame actually be? I’m asking out of curiosity, as I have no idea! ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/280 "2015-07-21T16:10:30Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > I’ve played about 40+ games and moderated about 20 myself, all on another site. > > I explained more about this in my recent post in The Game Room/How To Improve Mafia thread. Well, now I’m confused. I took your inital awkward phrasing a newbie tell. I’ve seen new players think they aren’t supposed to reveal their alignment, even as town, and play coy about it. So that’s what I thought was happening with you, and was prepared to get on the people looking for an easy lynch. But you’re well-experienced. And so I have no idea why you would say that, town or scum. Was it a trap? If so, you didn’t let it simmer very long. Was it a breadcrumb? there aren’t any roles in this game that benefit from a hint like that, like a traitor. So I can’t fathom the motivation for a post about not coming down on one side or another. I don’t like it, but I can’t really assign a scum motivation to it, either. So lets treat it as a trap and see where that takes us. Here are the people that attacked you for the statement, in order: Jimmy Chitwood (weakly) Mahaloth (vote) DiggitCamara (vote) Chronos (vote #3) Plumpudding (series of attacks) And those that either were ok with it or attacked those attacking you Nonsuch (ended up calling you town, despite it being a “tell”) TexCat (attacked your attackers) Septimus (calls it a nontell with no scum motive) I’m pleased that Chronos ended up as #3, as I’m already unhappy with him for several reasons. Proposing manipulating votes and gaming the mod for dubious benefits, for one thing. Misrepping my posts and ignoring me calling him out for it is another. And now vote #3 on what looked at the time like an easy bandwagon? Vote Chronos [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=15)