# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/281 "2015-07-21T16:11:33Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > You failed to include the part where I explicitly said that this goes for everyone in your quote. As you said, it applies to everyone, because we’re still on Day One. You’re right, you did say that. Sorry, I missed that bit. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/282 "2015-07-21T16:15:16Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > I also wanna say for the record, I’m actually not for engineering ties, I just want people to keep it in mind as a potentially viable tactic So you don’t think we should engineer ties, but we should keep the idea in mind anyway? I swear, the more you post, the more befuddled I get. I guess if an **individual player** wants to vote in such a way as to possibly lead to a tie, that’s his/her choice. That doesn’t mean another player won’t come along and throw a big fat wrench into the works. I suppose Player A in this scenario could then change his vote, with the suspicion that that entails. The more I think about this, the more it just seems like a giant hairball. **Chronos’** reasoning was sound, but I don’t see the idea working in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/283 "2015-07-21T16:25:32Z")
Exactly, I’m not for purposefully engineering ties, but if a situation comes up where it becomes relevant, it’s good that everyone actually knows _what_ is going on. Right now I don’t feel it is relevant, so right now I’m not for engineering a tie. If it does become relevant my opinion may change. I am for discussion, discussion is pro-town, I’m against hampering discussion, and I’m pretty suspicious of people being dismissive about legitimate talking points. Did I make myself more clear? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/284 "2015-07-21T16:36:37Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Well, now I’m confused. I took your inital awkward phrasing a newbie tell. I’ve seen new players think they aren’t supposed to reveal their alignment, even as town, and play coy about it. So that’s what I thought was happening with you, and was prepared to get on the people looking for an easy lynch. > > But you’re well-experienced. And so I have no idea why you would say that, town or scum. Was it a trap? If so, you didn’t let it simmer very long. Was it a breadcrumb? there aren’t any roles in this game that benefit from a hint like that, like a traitor. So I can’t fathom the motivation for a post about not coming down on one side or another. The bottom line is, I screwed up when I said what I said about “tipping my hand.” I was geeked up about playing mafia again and I just blabbered on and said something that at the time in my head, thought would be just filler Day 1 conversation. I didn’t realize it was gonna grab so much attention and even if I had realized when I posted it, I wouldn’t have done anything to try and edit it or change it. I’m used to the rule of strictly NO EDITING posts, so I would have just left it alone. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/285 "2015-07-21T16:39:07Z")
And yes, I see the irony in editing that post after just mentioning about not editing posts. I only did it because my quote brackets that I copied got messed up. Play on! ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/286 "2015-07-21T16:39:48Z")
**Jsexton** , I think you may be reading a bit too much into **Chronos** ’ vote. > [@Chronos](#): > > -snip- > Oh, and just to start off, > **Vote Dante G** > pending an explanation for just what he meant by “not trying to tip my hand in favor of any side just yet”. If he gives a reasonable explanation for what he meant by that, I will unvote him. If he doesn’t give an explanation, or gives an explanation that doesn’t seem reasonable to me, my vote will remain until and unless I see a better candidate. We still haven’t got any explanation from **Dante G** , other than how intimidating we are, but he did state he’d be willing to change his vote if **Dante G** manages to come forth with a reasonable explanation. That to me seems more like a Day One-might-as-well-vote, which _is_ reasonable, certainly more reasonable than for example **Dante G** ’s vote. But I don’t know, maybe I’m not reading enough into it. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/287 "2015-07-21T16:47:17Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Exactly, I’m not for purposefully engineering ties, but if a situation comes up where it becomes relevant, it’s good that everyone actually knows _what_ is going on. Right now I don’t feel it is relevant, so right now I’m not for engineering a tie. If it does become relevant my opinion may change. I am for discussion, discussion is pro-town, I’m against hampering discussion, and I’m pretty suspicious of people being dismissive about legitimate talking points. Did I make myself more clear? You’re opposed to engineering ties when it’s not relevant, but when it is relevant, you might be. In other words, you might be in favor of engineering ties. Got it. I have no problem with discussion, even if I seem to be coming down on a different side of the issue than other people. (And frankly, I’m not even sure that I am.) I just want clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/288 "2015-07-21T16:53:47Z")
I agree and I’m sorry I created confusion. All I want is a healthy discussion, and the more we discuss, the more opportunity for clarity. If we find ourselves in a situation where tie-breaking becomes relevant, it is good for everyone to know how the mechanic works and might be used. To be honest, I’m also not entirely clear on that myself, but to outright dismiss it as a useless discussion smells bad in my book. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/289 "2015-07-21T16:58:22Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > **Jsexton** , I think you may be reading a bit too much into **Chronos** ’ vote. Maybe! I mean, I wouldn’t expect savvy scum to just call for his head right away here. But easing on to the bandwagon and prodding for a “reasonable” response is a smooth move scum can make. Maybe Dante G implodes and starts flailing around, maybe he doesn’t. But since day 1 is kind of a crapshoot, experienced scum can nudge the town towards someone perceived to be an easy lynch. I think Dante has since dispelled that notion, but I want to see if that net caught a fish or not. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/290 "2015-07-21T17:17:37Z")
My updated stats of participation so far, as of post 290. Bayard IIIII IIIII II 12 Biotop IIIII IIIII IIIII III 18 Chronos IIIII IIIII IIIII I 16 Cygnus42 IIII 4 Dante G IIIII IIIII II 12 DiggitCamara IIIII II 7 Jimmy Chitwood IIIII IIIII 10 Johnny Bravo II 2 Jsexton IIIII IIIII IIIII III 18 Mahaloth IIIII IIIII I 11 Nonsuch IIIII IIIII III 13 Plumpudding IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII I 31 Precambrianmollusc IIIII IIIII III 13 Prof. Pepperwinkle IIIII IIII 9 sangfroid IIIII 5 Sario IIIII I 6 septimus IIIII I 6 Texcat IIIII I 6 Thing Fish IIIII IIIII I 11 ---
**Author:** ![Cygnus42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Cygnus42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cygnus42)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/291 "2015-07-21T17:20:09Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > The bottom line is, I screwed up when I said what I said about “tipping my hand.” I was geeked up about playing mafia again and I just blabbered on and said something that at the time in my head, thought would be just filler Day 1 conversation. I didn’t realize it was gonna grab so much attention and even if I had realized when I posted it, I wouldn’t have done anything to try and edit it or change it. I’m used to the rule of strictly NO EDITING posts, so I would have just left it alone. This seems plausible to me. A mafia vet wouldn’t toss out such an obvious mis-step like that, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/292 "2015-07-21T17:21:50Z")
Finally got around to reading **JSexton’s** rationale for his **Chronos** vote. I think it’s premature, but I will allow this: Chronos took control of the discussion almost immediately, making some very forceful pro-Town arguments, and while I think they’re not workable in the end, he obviously knows his shit. He’s as safe a Town call as I can probably make now, so I’m not voting Chronos. Yet he’s also a player with the experience and skill to pull off a Scum Jedi Mind Trick on that scale. So … yeah. We’ll see. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/293 "2015-07-21T17:34:01Z")
> [@Cygnus42](#): > > This seems plausible to me. A mafia vet wouldn’t toss out such an obvious mis-step like that, I think. To me his post seems like an awfully weird thing to say at all. I just don’t see any motivation for it at all. And just to be clear, we don’t have any evidence of **Dante G** being a mafia vet, other than his own words. Most of his own words hasn’t really portayed him as a vet, IMO. This isn’t ment as a stab at you, nor a personal attack **Dante G** , it’s just something to keep in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/294 "2015-07-21T18:04:36Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > I’ve played about 40+ games and moderated about 20 myself, all on another site. > > I explained more about this in my recent post in The Game Room/How To Improve Mafia thread. OK, if you are not a newbie, then I’m _really_ interested in hearing your explanation of why voting someone for “no reason” is helpful to Town. Still waiting on your response too, **Sario.** ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/295 "2015-07-21T18:18:48Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > OK, if you are not a newbie, then I’m _really_ interested in hearing your explanation of why voting someone for “no reason” is helpful to Town. In my past experiences, Day 1 votes almost always went no where. We very rarely lynched on Day 1, its just how we played. Day 1 votes were more or less filler talk and a means for players to check in and prove that they were present and playing the game. Real game strategy and evidence didn’t usually start being prevalent until after Night 1. My reasoning behind a Vote for “no reason” was, like I said, a way to instigate chatter amongst the players. The “no reason” aspect meant that I had no evidence for or against the votee. ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/296 "2015-07-21T18:42:12Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > OK, if you are not a newbie, then I’m _really_ interested in hearing your explanation of why voting someone for “no reason” is helpful to Town. > > Still waiting on your response too, **Sario.** My vote for you was a radom Day One vote to try and spark off some conversation. As the conversation seems to be going good now, and I have no specific reason to suspect you I will **Unvote Thing Fish**. Speaking of conversation, ours currently seems to be dominated by **Plumpudding** , but much of what he’s saying seems to be contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/297 "2015-07-21T18:47:49Z")
**VOTE COUNT!** 1. **Dante G** (3 votes) - Mahaloth (214), DiggitCamara (216), Chronos (229) 2. **Chronos** (2 votes) - Thing Fish (240), JSexton (280) 3t. **Sangfroid** (1 vote) - Dante G (217) 3t. **Precambrianmollusc** (1 vote) - Plumpudding (254) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/298 "2015-07-21T19:23:39Z")
Hi. A couple of you have wandered into the Forbidden Thread. Please don’t do that. (Note for Future Forbidden Threads: We should probably start the thread title with “Forbidden” and bury the word ‘mafia’ deeper in the thread title) ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/299 "2015-07-21T19:30:12Z")
Yeah, I was one of those wanderers… sorry about that. Forgot about the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/300 "2015-07-21T19:50:03Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > On a purely practical level, trying to engineer ties sounds like herding a bunch of exceptionally willful and stubborn cats. I’m trying to imagine a process that doesn’t end in a morass of finger-pointing, accusations and counter-accusations. Might be terribly fun for the people following along, less so for those of us trying to stay alive and kill scum. Lunch break at the mill… The tie rule seems favorable for the good guys. You are probably right about orchestrating a tie early in the game. The idea does seem challenging and likely to fail. However, if the opportunity arises… That said, tie strategy could be of great importance to our town later in the game. With fewer players and a tight game, those “stubborn cats” might have to explain why they will not let themselves be herded. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=16)