# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/441 "2015-07-24T02:50:56Z")
Damn, you mean now I’m going to have to decide by myself who to vote for? I was counting on just following directions and hoping for the best. Oh, alright, if that’s the way we’re going to play: unvote Bayard ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/442 "2015-07-24T02:53:19Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Dude, what the hell did I sign up for. I just wanted to play mafia. I’m glad I’m not the only one turnedoff by all these plans and hypothetical scenarios. > > OK so, Unvote Dante G Pssst, I think you have to unvote with red text. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/443 "2015-07-24T03:22:03Z")
Well, so much for that. Peace and harmony return to Cecilton. Briefly. After **Chronos’** performance during this debate, I no longer think it is especially likely that he is scum. If he is, I will have to see if I can kick myself in the ass and tip my hat at the same time. By my unofficial count, not counting all the people who will presumably soon be unvoting themselves, the current vote count is: **Dante G, Chronos, Sangfroid, and TexCat** 1 \*\*everybody else \*\* 0 **Dante G** has been getting a lot of heat, and I pretty much agree with all of it. Whether through scumminess or lack of familiarity with the culture of this board, he has been sowing anti-Town chaos all Day. If I were a betting Fish, I’d call him the favorite to be swinging at the end of the Day, and I’m totally OK with that. However, I would like to use my vote to put some heat on another deserving candidate. unvote Thing Fish vote Sario Like **Dante G** , he [cast a nonsense vote early on](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18533657&postcount=222) and could offer no explanation of how this was supposed to help Town. When he got heat for that, he unvoted, and at the same time [smudged Plumpudding](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18536505&postcount=296), saying that “much of what he has said is contradictory”. When pressed, all he could point to to justify that was a post in which **Plumpudding** misspoke and then promptly corrected himself in the very next post! And currently his [vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18542044&postcount=410) is on **Chronos** , apparently because he is in a snit that Chronos was advocating a strategy that he didn’t care for. Not that he argued the strategy was anti-Town, mind you, just that it “wasn’t the game I signed up for”. Actually, **Dante G** did that, too, and I heartily endorse **Chitwood’s** [take on that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18539317&postcount=371) (though not, of course, the end of that post, where he smudges myself and others in a way that still has me quite suspicious of him). ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/444 "2015-07-24T03:34:35Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Because, prior to **septimus’** pointing out the flaw, it appeared that this plan involved: > > A 100% chance of catching the Alpha Wolf, at the cost of at most one mislynch of a Townie, who would have the opportunity to claim if he or she was a power role. In addition, there would be about a 25% chance of catching TWO wolves. > > The Wolves identifying the First Mason and narrowing the candidates for the other two down to a field of about ten players. > > A 1 in 16 chance of lynching the Seer, and a 1 in 16 chance of lynching the Doctor. > > That seems to me like a great deal for Town! **Chronos’** revised plan was indeed slightly superior, but the tone of your criticism seemed much less “here are some kinks, can we work them out?” and more like an attempt to shoot the idea down entirely. All kind of beside the point now, but I did want to respond to **TexCat’s** question and acknowledge that I misspoke. It should have read “…at the cost of mislynching at most one or two Townies, one of whom would have the opportunity to claim if he or she was a power role”. **Biotop’s** original plan would have started with an essentially random lynch of one of the 16 non-Masons, which would have had a 12.5% chance of lynching a Town power role, who would not have been able to escape lynch by claiming. But it also would have had a 31.5% chance of lynching a Wolf, which was what I meant when I alluded to the chance of catching two wolves. After that, we would have narrowed the Alpha Wolf candidates down to two, and would have had to pick the scummiest to lynch on Day Two. If the other candidate was a power role, he or she could have claimed at that time. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/445 "2015-07-24T03:58:48Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Good to see the tie breaking rule change. But what DOES NOT change is the responses we have all posted on this topic. This little exercise over the past few days will come in handy now and later in the game when we try to find wolves. I believe these responses ARE fair game. Most definitely. There’s a couple people I’m highly unlikely to ever vote for now, you included. (finding town is almost as good as finding wolves, IMO) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/446 "2015-07-24T04:05:13Z")
I’m glad the rule will be changing. **unvote mahaloth** **Vote Jsexton** ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/447 "2015-07-24T04:37:37Z")
**septimus** , please don’t take this the wrong way…you are probably a good town soul and a gentleman of the highest order. **But:** When I was driving the horse & buggy to the mill this morning, I had a nagging feeling something was out of sorts. Hard to put my finger on it. I had just gone along with the rebirth of the self vote plan. I had voted for myself and was wondering how it was all going to turn out. I was worried some folks might quit the game for honest reasons and I would not want that, especially as I would feel somewhat responsible. I was concerned because I had voted quickly this morning without thinking it all through again. I am not a wolf, but I tried to think about how a wolf might respond to all the tie breaking discussion of the previous two days. Not how a panicky wolf would respond, but how a smart wolf with leadership qualities might. How wolves could communicate indirectly because the wolves know who the other wolves are. How wolves would look to each other for how to respond…knowing they would have to be stealth wolves. Sure this is probably crazy talk. I’m just a poor miller who has never dealt with wolves before. But when I looked at the plan, based on something I had proposed, it just felt wrong. I had thought the plan was pretty much dead. But here it was back. You had proposed trying it again. I agreed. I self voted. Oh boy! I was getting what I thought I wanted before… And then I had this image from a movie. You’ve probably seen it. The movie is called _It’s a Wonderful Life_. There’s this scene where Potter calls George into his office. You’ve beaten me George. So here’s everything you want. A big house. A nice car. And travel. Yes, you and your wife will get to travel. George is excited. He’s happy. He reaches across the table and shakes Potter’s hand. But then he looks at that handshake. He looks at Potter, who is grinning like… well grinning like a wolf. And suddenly he knows something is wrong. “No, now…wait a minute.” Don’t take offense, but that’s why I unvoted myself this morning at a moment when I really didn’t have time to post my reasons why. I felt like I had been shaking hands with a wolf. Anyway, just wanted to say that in case someday soon I am dead and can’t post it at all. Nothing but intuition. Silly, really… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/448 "2015-07-24T04:53:45Z")
I think we all love Biotop a little more for that last post. I’m glad he’s on board playing here. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/449 "2015-07-24T08:14:32Z")
I’m glad we’re abandoning the Plan, which was annoying some, and may have even been unsportsmanlike. **Unvote septimus** I still believe Chronos is a good enough player to play exactly this way when Wolf, but I don’t get enough scum sense to re-vote him at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/450 "2015-07-24T12:47:07Z")
Unvote Plumpudding. I’m glad to see the plan abandoned. Even if it would have worked, it didn’t seem like a fun way to play, as I said some posts earlier. I’m gonna read through the last pages a couple of more times, think a little and come back to you guys later today. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/451 "2015-07-24T14:44:55Z")
Thanks for the heads up there, Bayard. Unvote Dante G Ok, well after going through the entire thread, I’ve tried to look to see who has posted the least amount. The top contenders for low post count and could possibly be lurkers, which\* could\* indicate Wolf/Scum are :\*\* NonSuch\*\*, **Cygnus** and **Johnny Bravo**. **Johnny** said earlier he was on vacation, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. **Nonsuch** and **Cygnus** , well, they have posted a little lately, but overall, not much. Seeing as how this is Day 1 and we really have no other leads to go on aside from finger pointing, I will vote for one of these two. Which one, I will vote for, I’m not sure yet. Any others want to chime in with more theories. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/452 "2015-07-24T14:53:28Z")
**unvote Texcat** **Thing Fish** , Thanks! and I now see how 2 wolves could get killed. :smack: > [@sangfroid](#): > > Dinnertime at the no-longer-stylish but aging reasonably well _Cecilton Inne_, and there’s an animated conversation going on at the bar about just what that extra “e” is all about in the name of this place. > While dinner simmers in the back, the talk turns from letters to numbers. _Something_ just doesn’t add up around here… > > Just checking in before dinner; got a question to post a little later about the game mechanics here. Did we ever see this question? > [@sangfroid](#): > > I’m willing to self-vote, though I agree that the method is a bit unorthodox. It is what we have to work with however, and our host has quite explicitly restated that the rules will stand as written. > > No issue by me. > I do prefer to observe a bit more before voting though, as we still have ample time left. > > The search for the real truth takes more than just one Day, and over-eager lynching most often takes out a fellow Townie and sometimes a power role in the first round. Not good, but the information gathered certainly can be. > > That said, the two others who’ve dropped my name, **Dante G** and **Precambrianmollusc** have done so under the guises of “just because”, and that I suspect a diversionary wolf fight (which I do), respectively. I’ve yet to actually name any names myself. > > Somebody here could use the spotlight treatment, but it isn’t me. Who is it? Is it a secret? Observing is all well and good, but if you think someone deserves a spotlight, you should shine it. And why the reluctance to name names?? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/453 "2015-07-24T15:02:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I still believe Chronos is a good enough player to play exactly this way when Wolf, but I don’t get enough scum sense to re-vote him at this time. You really think so? It’s not just playstyle, it’s pushing (and refining!) a plan that would have almost certainly killed scum-Chronos. I mean, yes, until we see a body, anyone COULD be scum. But I can’t imagine myself voting for Chronos again this game. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/454 "2015-07-24T15:03:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Vote Jsexton Remind me why you’re doing that? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/455 "2015-07-24T15:07:10Z")
> [@Cygnus42](#): > > I didn’t count up the number of people who are opposed and didn’t go along, honestly. I saw a series of posts questioning the plan, but going along with it anyway. I think that the way things are trending, there will be heavy scum-suspicion on the people who abstain for any reason. You don’t really need to count them, exactly, just be aware that there are at least 3. And one person specifically said “Thirded” which right there means 17 of 19 was not going to happen. And again, what does town-you care if there is scum suspicion on you? You know what makes me suspicious? When someone intentionally goes along with the crowd _solely_ because they don’t want to draw attention to themselves. You know who does that? Scum. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/456 "2015-07-24T15:32:48Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > You really think so? It’s not just playstyle, it’s pushing (and refining!) a plan that would have almost certainly killed scum-Chronos. I mean, yes, until we see a body, anyone COULD be scum. But I can’t imagine myself voting for Chronos again this game. Yes! For several reasons. (1) I’ve seen him act similarly, forming analytic Town strategies, _in games where he was Scum_. (2) The fact that you (and others?) “can’t imagine myself voting for Chronos” is enormously good for Scum, if that’s what he is. (3) Because the plan couldn’t proceed unless the number of principled holdouts like you was zero (or at most 1 or 2), the chance of it actually being adopted was zero. Scum was under no real threat. Smart scum would have had an incentive, therefore, to adopt the plan eagerly, to blend in. (4) The refinement Chronos made to the plan was obvious. I know this because it occurred to me immediately on reading Biotop’s post – I was about to post it but saw Chronos had beaten me to it. Expanding on (3), I’m suspicious of those who quickly self-voted. And a Wolf who figured (3) out would have had an incentive to self-vote quickly, thus silently encouraging other Wolves to do the same. Why did I self-vote, indeed help instigate the self-voting? Good question! I acted impulsively or compulsively for several reasons: - - If we didn’t do it today, we’d be thinking of doing it tomorrow, etc. It would be a distraction until “we got it out of our system.” - - it set a “trap”, though I’m not sure how the trap worked. Should we be more or less suspicious of those who self-voted? I “knew” the plan wouldn’t come to pass. Nevertheless, if the plan was unsportsmanlike, it was unsportsmanlike to threaten it, and I apologize if I acted improperly. But, again, it seemed expeditious to “get it out of the way.” - - I acted partly on the Imp of the Perverse, I’m afraid, almost doing something like Milgram’s Experiment. :smack: - - and I partly blame the _indica_, which lately seems much stronger than when I was young and foolish. 😉 In summary, I still believe **Chronos** is MORE likely than random to be Scum. I don’t expect him to be Lynched soon, however, so want to find another case. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/457 "2015-07-24T16:32:54Z")
Another question: the first Day is a week long, give or take. Is this likely to be the case for all Days or just the first one? ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/458 "2015-07-24T16:39:36Z")
From what I’ve heard, Professor, the days usually last that long throughout the entire game. I prefer shorter Day and Night cycles, but that’s just me being a Unsung Heroes mafia guy and stuck in my old ways. ---
**Author:** ![Cygnus42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Cygnus42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cygnus42)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/459 "2015-07-24T16:57:42Z")
I’ll likely be busy the rest of the day, so I want to get some stuff out there before the end of lunch here… First: unvote Cygnus42 I’m glad the mass-tie concept is dead. I was a bit interested in seeing how it turned out if it worked, but I thought it didn’t seem like a great gameplay idea overall. Second, it looks like I’m attracting some attention, coincidentally from the two people I’m currently most suspicious of. **Dante G** for his early slips and confusing follow-up messages, and \*\*JSexton \*\*- just a feeling of being a bit too loud and aggressive, trying hard to seem pro-town, but maybe trying to throw suspicion away from himself. Plus, I find it odd that JSexton has named two players that he’d basically never consider voting for as scum. Seems odd to declare that on Day 1 - indicates maybe trying too hard for townie cred. > [@](#): > > And again, what does town-you care if there is scum suspicion on you? I’m not too concerned about scum suspicion on me, really - I joined in the self-vote because it seemed like it suddenly became inevitable. You’re right in that I should have noticed that there were enough people not going along with it to make it useless anyway. As far as lurking in-game…I have lurker tendencies for message boards in general, which I’m trying to put aside for the game. vote JSexton - for a general sense of scumminess and trying to loudly deflect attention elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/460 "2015-07-24T17:49:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Why did I self-vote, indeed help instigate the self-voting? Good question! I acted impulsively or compulsively for several reasons: > > - > - If we didn’t do it today, we’d be thinking of doing it tomorrow, etc. It would be a distraction until “we got it out of our system.” > > - > - it set a “trap”, though I’m not sure how the trap worked. Should we be more or less suspicious of those who self-voted? I “knew” the plan wouldn’t come to pass. Nevertheless, if the plan was unsportsmanlike, it was unsportsmanlike to threaten it, and I apologize if I acted improperly. But, again, it seemed expeditious to “get it out of the way.” > > - > - I acted partly on the Imp of the Perverse, I’m afraid, almost doing something like Milgram’s Experiment. :smack: > > - > - and I partly blame the _indica_, which lately seems much stronger than when I was young and foolish. 😉 This whole thing strikes me as scummy as hell. Septimus has already bounced back and forth across the plan with more flip flops than a south Florida beach in July, and this particular self-deprecating defense of his actions really seals the deal for me. Dude is covering more bases than a… thing that is well known for base covering. Some sort of sportsball player. The first Mafia lesson I was ever taught is that you should stand by your actions - not roll over and make a bunch of bullshit excuses the first time somebody shines the light of scrutiny on you. **vote septimus** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=24)