# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/481 "2015-07-25T12:46:45Z")
Two others that so far have failed to provide me with an answer: **Sario** and **Precambrianmollusc**. It doesn’t look sparkly clean to ignore posters who have an issue with what you post. In **TexCat** ’s case, she’s been selectively answering, and also seemed to be flinging and messing about for a while there, until the self-vote business began. These two haven’t actually answered at all. Something to keep in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/482 "2015-07-25T13:07:05Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Just wanted to rear my head up briefly since I’ve gone a bit quiet of late. I kind of ran out of gas during the whole tie-rigging debate because I had nothing to add to the mechanics of it, and because I felt I expressed my feelings for the whole prospect and didn’t want to repeat myself. I see my reticence has earned me my first vote. I didn’t really think I was **the most silent player** , but go figure; I’m not a voluminous poster at the best of times. Maybe I can work to turn that decision around. Anyway, I’ll be posting my vote too (along with my reasoning, such as it is) I hope later tonight. My part bolded for emphasis… You are not the most silent player; There are seven players more silent than you. This is why I find it handy to keep this list,\* and\* share it publically. Biotop IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII III 43 Plumpudding IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II 42 Thing Fish IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIII 34 Jsexton IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II 32 Chronos IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII 30 Dante G IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II 27 Mahaloth IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII III 23 Texcat IIIII IÌIII IIIII IIIII I 21 Precambrianmollusc IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII 20 Prof. Pepperwinkle IIIII IIIII IIIII IIII 20 Bayard IIIII IIIII IIIII III 18 Nonsuch IIIII IIIII IIIII II 17 Sario IIIII IIIII II 12 septimus IIIII IIIII II 12 DiggitCamara IIIII IIIII II 12 Jimmy Chitwood IIIII IIIII I 11 sangfroid IIIII IIIII 10 Cygnus42 IIIII IIII 9 Johnny Bravo IIIII 5 ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/483 "2015-07-25T14:24:01Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Two others that so far have failed to provide me with an answer: **Sario** and **Precambrianmollusc**. It doesn’t look sparkly clean to ignore posters who have an issue with what you post. In **TexCat** ’s case, she’s been selectively answering, and also seemed to be flinging and messing about for a while there, until the self-vote business began. These two haven’t actually answered at all. Something to keep in mind. I’m actually going to say thank you to **Plumpudding** for this. I have a strong tendency to lurk, and I needed the reminder to put my thoughts out there. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > \ > > However, I would like to use my vote to put some heat on another deserving candidate. > > unvote Thing Fish > > vote Sario > > Like **Dante G** , he [cast a nonsense vote early on](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18533657&postcount=222) and could offer no explanation of how this was supposed to help Town. > > When he got heat for that, he unvoted, and at the same time [smudged Plumpudding](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18536505&postcount=296), saying that “much of what he has said is contradictory”. When pressed, all he could point to to justify that was a post in which **Plumpudding** misspoke and then promptly corrected himself in the very next post! > > And currently his [vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18542044&postcount=410) is on **Chronos** , apparently because he is in a snit that Chronos was advocating a strategy that he didn’t care for. Not that he argued the strategy was anti-Town, mind you, just that it “wasn’t the game I signed up for”. Actually, **Dante G** did that, too, and I heartily endorse **Chitwood’s** [take on that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18539317&postcount=371) (though not, of course, the end of that post, where he smudges myself and others in a way that still has me quite suspicious of him). I feel I explained my reasons for my original vote well here > [@Sario](#): > > My vote for you was a random Day One vote to try and spark off some conversation. As the conversation seems to be going good now, and I have no specific reason to suspect you I will **Unvote Thing Fish**. As for "smudging’ **Plumpudding** , > [@Sario](#): > > Though to be completely honest, some of what I thought was contradiction was actually me misreading some posts. I made an honest mistake, and when I realized it, I admitted my mistake. I’m not sure why you’re trying to make it into an issue. My vote for **Chronos** was made in defiance of a plan that I felt broke the game. I will not apologize for trying keep the game true to what we signed up to play. (OOG: Snit, really? This is a game, there’s no reason the get insulting. /OOG) ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/484 "2015-07-25T14:25:08Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > \*\*Well, this is not going as anticipated. > > I am still personally disinclined to change the ruleset. However, the level of - uh - anger and frustration I’m seeing among players, including among many I have played with in the past, is making me feel like my personal opinions will need to be overridden for the good of the game. > > Thus I will change the tiebreaker rule to something less complicated. I will, however, give anyone who so desires exactly 12 hours to protest the change via private message to me. > > Sorry, guys. \*\* Have you decided on a new tiebreaker yet? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/485 "2015-07-25T14:50:41Z")
> [@Sario](#): > > I’m actually going to say thank you to **Plumpudding** for this. I have a strong tendency to lurk, and I needed the reminder to put my thoughts out there. > [Snip] I also have a tendency to lurk on forums, but town relies on everyone sharing their thoughts. To be honest, if you are town your voting history is only useful if you share your reasons for voting. It also makes it a much more interesting game. Even if your head is spinning and you don’t feel like you have anything to add, it is much more useful and a lot less suspicious for town, to post than to sit silent in the corner. In real life I’m quite hyper-active, so if I’m playing with someone like that, I’ll point and yell so spittle flies until the person reacts, because until that point they’re basically useless. Now, it is still early, so there is still time to wrap your head around everything and amp up your participation. Also regarding the “snit” comment, everyone please remember it is a game. Let’s try to keep those emotions out of it. Sometimes emotions boil over, and now and again some comment will get out. Big deal. Me, I ignore it as it isn’t really relevant to the game. (OOG: Timid, insecure people aren’t very happy to play resistance with me…) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/486 "2015-07-25T15:04:02Z")
I tried to extract a vote count _ **but probably made mistakes** _. (The list ignores rescinded self-votes. It shows two votes by Sario who didn’t unvote.) JSexton (4)- Mahaloth, Cygnus42, Bayard, Prof. Pepperwinkle Dante G (3) - [del]Mahaloth[/del], [del]DiggitCamara[/del], [del]Chronos[/del], JSexton, Jimmy Chitwood, Biotop TexCat (3) - Chronos, sangfroid, Plumpudding septimus (2) - Johnny Bravo, TexCat Sario (1) - Thing Fish DiggitCamara (1) - DiggitCamara Sangfroid (1) - [del]Dante G[/del], Precambrianmollusc Thing Fish (1) - Sario Chronos (1) - [del]Thing Fish[/del], [del]JSexton[/del], [del]Dante G[/del], [del]septimus[/del], Sario (who didn’t unvote Thing Fish?) Precambrianmollusc (0) - [del]Plumpudding[/del] I don’t really like any of the cases and thus am more suspicious of the voters than the votees. I especially don’t like the case against me 😃 and point a big FOS against those voting me. Although I’m near the bottom of the player list, I feel that I’ve been more loquacious and aggressive than usual. When Scum, I’ll be the one pouting in the corner hoping nobody notices me. 🆒 ) I’m not impressed by the case laid out against TexCat by Plumpudding in #369, but I’m suspicious of TexCat for other reasons. Her contributions have been minimal. She was quick to vote herself with little comment and then quick to vote me with little comment. I find both votes Scummy. **Vote TexCat** Among other candidates, I’d prefer to Lynch Dante or Chronos rather than JSexton. JSexton has taken some extreme positions (about tie-breaking ploy, and reversing completely on Chronos) that don’t seem like Scum trying to blend in. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/487 "2015-07-25T15:09:48Z")
[Out of Game] I use Chrome to access SDMB. Just starting a day or two ago, it’s become harder to use – sometimes I have to wait a while (for things like “ping.chartbeat” ?) before the scrollbar works. My guess is that something changed very recently and AdBlock is no longer working properly. Any others with similar annoyance? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/488 "2015-07-25T15:26:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I tried to extract a vote count _ **but probably made mistakes** _. (The list ignores rescinded self-votes. It shows two votes by Sario who didn’t unvote.) > > JSexton (4)- Mahaloth, Cygnus42, Bayard, Prof. Pepperwinkle > Dante G (3) - [del]Mahaloth[/del], [del]DiggitCamara[/del], [del]Chronos[/del], JSexton, Jimmy Chitwood, Biotop > TexCat (3) - Chronos, sangfroid, Plumpudding > septimus (2) - Johnny Bravo, TexCat > Sario (1) - Thing Fish > DiggitCamara (1) - DiggitCamara > Sangfroid (1) - [del]Dante G[/del], Precambrianmollusc > Thing Fish (1) - Sario > Chronos (1) - [del]Thing Fish[/del], [del]JSexton[/del], [del]Dante G[/del], [del]septimus[/del], Sario (who didn’t unvote Thing Fish?) > Precambrianmollusc (0) - [del]Plumpudding[/del] > > I don’t really like any of the cases and thus am more suspicious of the voters than the votees. I especially don’t like the case against me 😃 and point a big FOS against those voting me. Although I’m near the bottom of the player list, I feel that I’ve been more loquacious and aggressive than usual. When Scum, I’ll be the one pouting in the corner hoping nobody notices me. 🆒 ) > > I’m not impressed by the case laid out against TexCat by Plumpudding in #369, but I’m suspicious of TexCat for other reasons. Her contributions have been minimal. She was quick to vote herself with little comment and then quick to vote me with little comment. I find both votes Scummy. > > **Vote TexCat** > > Among other candidates, I’d prefer to Lynch Dante or Chronos rather than JSexton. JSexton has taken some extreme positions (about tie-breaking ploy, and reversing completely on Chronos) that don’t seem like Scum trying to blend in. Case? I wouldn’t call that a case… My vote for **TexCat** is because of how she has reacted after that post. She has defended herself without demonstrating why anyone should trust her. Emotional and aggressive posts like [372](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18539499&postcount=372),[379](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18540039&postcount=379),[380](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18540064&postcount=380), [383](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18540221&postcount=383) and [384](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18540227&postcount=384), while ignoring my response to her in post [400](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18541739&postcount=400), combined with the post that prompted my “case”, post [337](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18537868&postcount=337), do not inspire a great deal of faith in me. She seemed to be able to duck away from some heat and gain composure during the self-vote stuff. I’m also not very impressed with her reasons for any of her voting and the last one might look like an attempt to join a wagon. My “case” was to get a reaction, and to me it looks like she has reacted poorly in spades. IMO. And thanks for the attempt at a vote-count! I had one going but got completely lost during the self-vote period. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/489 "2015-07-25T15:27:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Out of Game] I use Chrome to access SDMB. Just starting a day or two ago, it’s become harder to use – sometimes I have to wait a while (for things like “ping.chartbeat” ?) before the scrollbar works. > > My guess is that something changed very recently and AdBlock is no longer working properly. Any others with similar annoyance? OOG: Yeah I had some problems earlier today. I reinstalled AdBlock plus and now it seems fine. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/490 "2015-07-25T15:51:27Z")
First things first **Unvote DiggitCamara** As for my vote, I was unable to connect yesterday and I don’t have that much time right now. So, on a general feel from the current mood in Town, I will **vote septimus** Seems the scummiest of the candidates so far. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/491 "2015-07-25T15:53:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **septimus** : > > I don’t really like any of the cases and thus am more suspicious of the voters than the votees. This is a dangerous road to go down. I don’t agree with a lot of the cases, either (especially not the one against me), but that doesn’t mean that the voters who made those cases are scummy. Maybe they’re just misguided Townies. Heck, maybe they’re smart Townies, and I’m the one who’s misguided. Or maybe we’re both right: After all, there are multiple Scum in the game. But making an effort at finding Scum, and going public with your suspicions, is far better than voting without a stated case, or just staying quiet. Voting randomly is cause for suspicion, and abstaining from voting is cause for suspicion, but voting for reasons that you disagree with should not be cause for suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/492 "2015-07-25T16:22:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I tried to extract a vote count _ **but probably made mistakes** _. (The list ignores rescinded self-votes. It shows two votes by Sario who didn’t unvote.) > > JSexton (4)- Mahaloth, Cygnus42, Bayard, Prof. Pepperwinkle > Dante G (3) - [del]Mahaloth[/del], [del]DiggitCamara[/del], [del]Chronos[/del], JSexton, Jimmy Chitwood, Biotop > TexCat (3) - Chronos, sangfroid, Plumpudding > septimus (2) - Johnny Bravo, TexCat > Sario (1) - Thing Fish > DiggitCamara (1) - DiggitCamara > Sangfroid (1) - [del]Dante G[/del], Precambrianmollusc > Thing Fish (1) - Sario > Chronos (1) - [del]Thing Fish[/del], [del]JSexton[/del], [del]Dante G[/del], [del]septimus[/del], Sario (who didn’t unvote Thing Fish?) > Precambrianmollusc (0) - [del]Plumpudding[/del] > > I don’t really like any of the cases and thus am more suspicious of the voters than the votees. I especially don’t like the case against me 😃 and point a big FOS against those voting me. Although I’m near the bottom of the player list, I feel that I’ve been more loquacious and aggressive than usual. When Scum, I’ll be the one pouting in the corner hoping nobody notices me. 🆒 ) > > I’m not impressed by the case laid out against TexCat by Plumpudding in #369, but I’m suspicious of TexCat for other reasons. Her contributions have been minimal. She was quick to vote herself with little comment and then quick to vote me with little comment. I find both votes Scummy. > > **Vote TexCat** > > Among other candidates, I’d prefer to Lynch Dante or Chronos rather than JSexton. JSexton has taken some extreme positions (about tie-breaking ploy, and reversing completely on Chronos) that don’t seem like Scum trying to blend in. Thanks for the vote count. I unvoted Thing Fish in this [Post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18536505&postcount=296) ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/493 "2015-07-25T17:16:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes! For several reasons. > (1) I’ve seen him act similarly, forming analytic Town strategies, _in games where he was Scum_. > (2) The fact that you (and others?) “can’t imagine myself voting for Chronos” is enormously good for Scum, if that’s what he is. > (3) Because the plan couldn’t proceed unless the number of principled holdouts like you was zero (or at most 1 or 2), the chance of it actually being adopted was zero. Scum was under no real threat. Smart scum would have had an incentive, therefore, to adopt the plan eagerly, to blend in. > (4) The refinement Chronos made to the plan was obvious. I know this because it occurred to me immediately on reading Biotop’s post – I was about to post it but saw Chronos had beaten me to it. > > Expanding on (3), I’m suspicious of those who quickly self-voted. And a Wolf who figured (3) out would have had an incentive to self-vote quickly, thus silently encouraging other Wolves to do the same. > > Why did I self-vote, indeed help instigate the self-voting? Good question! I acted impulsively or compulsively for several reasons: > > - > - If we didn’t do it today, we’d be thinking of doing it tomorrow, etc. It would be a distraction until “we got it out of our system.” > > - > - it set a “trap”, though I’m not sure how the trap worked. Should we be more or less suspicious of those who self-voted? I “knew” the plan wouldn’t come to pass. Nevertheless, if the plan was unsportsmanlike, it was unsportsmanlike to threaten it, and I apologize if I acted improperly. But, again, it seemed expeditious to “get it out of the way.” > > - > - I acted partly on the Imp of the Perverse, I’m afraid, almost doing something like Milgram’s Experiment. :smack: > > - > - and I partly blame the _indica_, which lately seems much stronger than when I was young and foolish. 😉 > > In summary, I still believe **Chronos** is MORE likely than random to be Scum. I don’t expect him to be Lynched soon, however, so want to find another case. I don’t like this post. Why are you so eager to bring meta-gaming to the table? Who cares how **Chronos** has behaved in earlier games? And why are you suspicious of people who self-voted in general? I agree with **Chronos** in post [491](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18547576&postcount=491), this is a slippery slope and in itself not a good reason for suspicion, in my opinion. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > This whole thing strikes me as scummy as hell. Septimus has already bounced back and forth across the plan with more flip flops than a south Florida beach in July, and this particular self-deprecating defense of his actions really seals the deal for me. Dude is covering more bases than a… thing that is well known for base covering. Some sort of sportsball player. > > The first Mafia lesson I was ever taught is that you should stand by your actions - not roll over and make a bunch of bullshit excuses the first time somebody shines the light of scrutiny on you. > > **vote septimus** I wanted to highlight this post. I agree, \*\*Septimus \*\*has been on my list for some time now. Something smells fishy. > [@TexCat](#): > > Hehehe.😛 > > **vote Septimus** > > I agree with Johnny, but as noted earlier, I did not like that Septimus’s first reaction to the scheme was to work out how scum could overcome it. This post, as I mentioned in an earlier post looks a lot like hop on a wagon. Maybe a bus? > [@Biotop](#): > > Mill meal time again. > > ##### > > I just want to strongly encourage all town players to post… and to post a lot. We need your input. > > Also this is important, it seems to me, because \*\* wolves have to lie every time they post. Every damn time!\*\* Even if it is something inconsequential, like a joke it is still a lie because the wolf is pretending to be town. It is hard to lie over and over again, day after day without getting caught. Meanwhile, town players speak the truth so they don’t have to worry too much about inconsistencies. Even if you contradict yourself in error, that’s better than not posting. Trust us to tell the difference. > > Then, when you suspect someone, you can go over post after post after post. Whose posts in total are nothing but a pack of lies? > > So please post NOW, before experienced wolves have a chance to instruct wolf newbies. Another post that deserves to be highlighted in my opinion. Even though I trust no one, **Biotop** looks pretty clean to me. I also believe \*\*Chronos \*\*is clean, although I had a few suspicions earlier on. Bringing in meta seems very uneccessary to me, and \*\*Chronos \*\*has been quite calm in his reponse to that from **Septimus**. **Thing Fish** and **Mahaloth** also seem to have towns best interests in mind. To everyone else, I’m not sure. Could go either way, though some are a bit more stinky than rosy. I’m actually a bit surprised at the case against **Jsexton**. Could anyone provide me with a few thoughts more on why he apparently seem so suspicious? ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/494 "2015-07-25T17:43:23Z")
After re-reading, I find myself agreeing with the case against **septimus**. This could be a problem because if I vote for him now it will look like I’m hopping on the bandwagon. Looks like that’s a risk I’ll have to take **Unvote Chronos** **Vote septimus** ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/495 "2015-07-25T17:44:56Z")
The main reason I find JSexton suspicious: 1. Biotop et al. came up with a straightforward and mechanistic way to expose all the wolves and win the game. 2. A number of players howled that this “isn’t Mafia” and begged for the rules to be changed. 3. JSexton was the loudest of the howlers, going as far as to say he’d quit the game if the plan was implemented. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/496 "2015-07-25T17:56:21Z")
I don’t agree with that case. This is, after all, a game, and the purpose of a game is to have fun. A Wolf or Townie alike could very easily find such a strategy to be unfun. This is distinct from an objection like the one **TexCat** raised: She objected because the plan would supposedly hurt us, even though the only hurt she could come up with was a small chance of lynching the Doctor and/or Detective in exchange for killing multiple Wolves. Such an exchange really would hurt one team, and I’m voting for her because I think it’s the team she’s on. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/497 "2015-07-25T17:56:41Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The main reason I find JSexton suspicious: > > 1. Biotop et al. came up with a straightforward and mechanistic way to expose all the wolves and win the game. > 2. A number of players howled that this “isn’t Mafia” and begged for the rules to be changed. > 3. JSexton was the loudest of the howlers, going as far as to say he’d quit the game if the plan was implemented. He has been vocal about it for a long time. He has also been generally constructive. Being against a meta-tactic doesn’t right off the bat strike me as scummy, per se. How you go about it is where I would look for scumminess. He stated all the way back at the beginning of the thread, way before it was sure it could be useful, that he was against using that as a tactic. Back then I felt his insistence of not wanting to talk about it as annoying, as talking is good, but he clearly stated his motivation as that being a game he didn’t want to play, as many others. Some where willing to go along to see how far it could be pushed, he didn’t. Looks to me like he really wants to play traditional Mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/498 "2015-07-25T18:10:33Z")
By the way, I messed up the participation-count by one post made by **Prof.Pepperwinkle** , he was on 19 posts and is **now** on 20 posts. It is fixed and hopefully the rest should be correct. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/499 "2015-07-25T18:54:59Z")
I’ve been slightly aggressive, and one of my posts strayed much too far into whimsy (“Milgram’s Experiment” :smack: ), but I ask those voting me _ **What have I ever done that’s been pro-Scum? What was the Scum motive for my alleged transgressions?** _ Here’s the “case”: [QUOTE=Johnny Bravo] Dude is covering more bases than a… thing that is well known for base covering. Some sort of sportsball player. The first Mafia lesson I was ever taught is that you should stand by your actions - not roll over and make a bunch of bullshit excuses the first time somebody shines the light of scrutiny on you. [/QUOTE] When did anyone shine the light of scrutiny on me, and what were the bullshit excuses I made? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/500 "2015-07-25T19:25:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Snip] > > **I don’t really like any of the cases and thus am more suspicious of the voters than the votees.** [Snip] This, > [@septimus](#): > > Yes! For several reasons. > (1) I’ve seen him act similarly, forming analytic Town strategies, _in games where he was Scum_. > (2) The fact that you (and others?) “can’t imagine myself voting for Chronos” is enormously good for Scum, if that’s what he is. > (3) Because the plan couldn’t proceed unless the number of principled holdouts like you was zero (or at most 1 or 2), the chance of it actually being adopted was zero. Scum was under no real threat. Smart scum would have had an incentive, therefore, to adopt the plan eagerly, to blend in. > (4) The refinement Chronos made to the plan was obvious. I know this because it occurred to me immediately on reading Biotop’s post – I was about to post it but saw Chronos had beaten me to it. > > Expanding on (3), I’m suspicious of those who quickly self-voted. And a Wolf who figured (3) out would have had an incentive to self-vote quickly, thus silently encouraging other Wolves to do the same. > > Why did I self-vote, indeed help instigate the self-voting? Good question! I acted impulsively or compulsively for several reasons: > > - > - If we didn’t do it today, we’d be thinking of doing it tomorrow, etc. It would be a distraction until “we got it out of our system.” > > - > - it set a “trap”, though I’m not sure how the trap worked. Should we be more or less suspicious of those who self-voted? I “knew” the plan wouldn’t come to pass. Nevertheless, if the plan was unsportsmanlike, it was unsportsmanlike to threaten it, and I apologize if I acted improperly. But, again, it seemed expeditious to “get it out of the way.” > > - > - I acted partly on the Imp of the Perverse, I’m afraid, almost doing something like Milgram’s Experiment. :smack: > > - > - and I partly blame the _indica_, which lately seems much stronger than when I was young and foolish. 😉 > > In summary, I still believe **Chronos** is MORE likely than random to be Scum. I don’t expect him to be Lynched soon, however, so want to find another case. combined with your insistence of\*\* Chronos\*\*, of all people, being scum without providing a better reason than “because he has played this way before”, which is irrelevant, > [@septimus](#): > > I’m not impressed by the _case_ laid out against TexCat by Plumpudding in #369, **but I’m suspicious of TexCat for other reasons. Her contributions have been minimal. She was quick to vote herself with little comment and then quick to vote me with little comment. I find both votes Scummy.** > > **Vote TexCat** > [Snip] combined with voting on **TexCat** , the reason being exactly what you have been doing all game regarding **Chronos** , is why I find you a bit fishy, and a tad hypocritical. You harping on things not relevant here and now is why you where added to my list, by the way. Not as smelly as **TexCat** of course, which is why she is my vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=26)