# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/501 "2015-07-25T19:28:41Z")
Just to clarify, your reason regarding her votes, not your reason of her contributions being minimal. Because that is indeed very true. Not that I necessarily think your contributions have been all that. You took away a lot of heat on her when deciding to self-vote. And you never really made your case regarding that anyway, in my view seemingly stating you were both for and against, but mostly against because “ **Chronos** ”. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/502 "2015-07-25T20:26:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ve been slightly aggressive, and one of my posts strayed much too far into whimsy (“Milgram’s Experiment” :smack: ), but I ask those voting me > _ **What have I ever done that’s been pro-Scum? What was the Scum motive for my alleged transgressions?** _ Septimus, your first post about how the wolves should handle the tie-vote scheme looked like it could have been a message to your fellow wolves, since without day talk, you would have to communicate in-thread. You laid out the defense to the scheme, and not a bad one either, sacrificing not the alpha wolf, but your most likely to be lynched wolf. > [@](#): > > One second before EOD a Wolf will move his vote to force a misLynch. We Lynch him Day 2 of course, but Day 3 Wolves cause another misLynch. Wolves would take care to expose their scummiest-looking Wolves and Kill the towniest-looking Townies. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/503 "2015-07-25T20:33:06Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Septimus, your first post about how the wolves should handle the tie-vote scheme looked like it could have been a message to your fellow wolves, since without day talk, you would have to communicate in-thread. You laid out the defense to the scheme, and not a bad one either, sacrificing not the alpha wolf, but your most likely to be lynched wolf. 😕 Do you think Wolves needed this explained? Do you think with 18 self-votes, Wolves would have just thought “Our Alpha Wolf is about to be Lynched – oh well, that’s life!” ? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/504 "2015-07-25T20:45:45Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And currently his [vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18542044&postcount=410) is on **Chronos** , apparently because he is in a snit that Chronos was advocating a strategy that he didn’t care for. Not that he argued the strategy was anti-Town, mind you, just that it “wasn’t the game I signed up for”. Actually, **Dante G** did that, too, and I heartily endorse **Chitwood’s** [take on that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18539317&postcount=371) (though not, of course, the end of that post, where he smudges myself and others in a way that still has me quite suspicious of him). I thought I had addressed this point (and **JSexton** ’s similar post) already but I don’t see that post so I guess I never hit submit. The short version is that that post was sloppy, and you and **JSexton** are correct that it’s not totally accurate, so it bears clarifying: **Dante G** actually voted to lynch **Chronos** because he didn’t like the plan (which I note now that **Sario** has also copped to). That, along with the fact that seriously every single one of his posts has been just godawful scummy on average – seriously, reread from the beginning, anyone curious, because in my opinion it’s kept up since I voted – is why my vote is on him. You and **JSexton** are right - you didn’t go after **Chronos** because of that proposal, the way that **Dante** did. What you did was go after **Chronos** in general, whereas I thought **Chronos** was playing pro-Town. In my original post I said “and so,” like the one followed the other, but I just wrote it badly. The other people who have voted for **Chronos** I was somewhat suspicious of because I thought, at that point, that **Chronos** was the closest thing to solid Town that we had. Voting for **Chronos** seems mildly scummy to me because of that, not because I think everyone voted him specifically because of the tiebreak ideas. And, to reiterate, I think voting him because of the tiebreak idea is the worse sin, since I think it’s, at best, not designed to catch scum, and at worst, opportunistic and scummy. I think a Town player might very well complain about the proposal, but I think s/he would be hesitant to try to kill the person who proposed it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/505 "2015-07-25T20:59:12Z")
Yeah, I haven’t said much in my defense against **septimus** because he’s right: I do play this way when I’m Scum. That said, though, I also play this way when I’m Town. Just because it’s not a Town tell doesn’t mean it’s a Scum tell. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/506 "2015-07-25T21:04:02Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Anyway, I agree with my [del]shady[/del] esteemed colleagues **[Mahaloth](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18537510&postcount=319)** and **[Cygnus42](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18545054&postcount=459)** that something ain’t right about **JSexton**. He seems to sow a lot of suspicion ([e.g., recently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18544672&postcount=455)) without going to bat for many posters. I’m uncertain why you think me scumhunting is suspicious. Literally playing the game of mafia here. And why would I be going to bat for other players? I don’t know anyone’s alignment but my own, so if someone’s being attacked, I want to see them defend themselves. > [@](#): > > Up until recently, I don’t think e ever said he thought anyone was OK. Now, true, the recent exception to that is his newfound support of **Chronos** and **Biotop**. As I see it, though, he initially opposed the tiebreaker plan and attacked **Chronos** , and once the plan started to fall apart, and **Chronos** and **Biotop** were getting their consolation high-fives, then JSexton claimed that they were definitely townies and he’s never vote for them. I believe he was using the plan to attack **Chronos** , who he knows is town, but as town support coalesced around **Chronos** and **Biotop** , at least for the time being, **JSexton** decided to back it off a bit. He’s not going to get them lynched today now. So he moved on to **Cygnus42**. You should read those posts again, then. That’s objectively not what happened. I never attacked Chronos for trying to use the tiebreak as a game mechanic. I absolutely backed off him, because _things happened!_ New information came to light! > [@](#): > > I’m probably reading too much into a fluff post, but I have been suspicious of him since [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18532901&postcount=203) early post: Yeah, I don’t think you understood that post at all. I was calling the post I was replying to a very medium-sized post, albeit in a jokey way. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/507 "2015-07-25T21:05:19Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Agreeing with Bayard’s line of thought in #471. Did you re-read any of the posts in question? Or are you taking his version of events 100% at face value? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/508 "2015-07-25T21:06:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Out of Game] I use Chrome to access SDMB. Just starting a day or two ago, it’s become harder to use – sometimes I have to wait a while (for things like “ping.chartbeat” ?) before the scrollbar works. > > My guess is that something changed very recently and AdBlock is no longer working properly. Any others with similar annoyance? Chrome has been very laggy for me in the last two weeks, across multiple PCs. I haven’t been able to figure out why yet. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/509 "2015-07-25T21:08:27Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > The main reason I find JSexton suspicious: > > 1. Biotop et al. came up with a straightforward and mechanistic way to expose all the wolves and win the game. > 2. A number of players howled that this “isn’t Mafia” and begged for the rules to be changed. > 3. JSexton was the loudest of the howlers, going as far as to say he’d quit the game if the plan was implemented. Man, I am so not a fan of this post. It feels really disingenous to use phrasing like “howling” when wolf hunting. Kind of an ad hom attack? Not exactly, I guess. Not sure exactly what to call it. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/510 "2015-07-25T21:11:28Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Just wanted to rear my head up briefly since I’ve gone a bit quiet of late. I kind of ran out of gas during the whole tie-rigging debate because I had nothing to add to the mechanics of it, and because I felt I expressed my feelings for the whole prospect and didn’t want to repeat myself. I see my reticence has earned me my first vote. I didn’t really think I was the most silent player, but go figure; I’m not a voluminous poster at the best of times. Maybe I can work to turn that decision around. Anyway, I’ll be posting my vote too (along with my reasoning, such as it is) I hope later tonight. I’m never a fan of posts that only apologize for not posting. We’re approaching end of day, and I don’t recall anything of substance from you. Why do you think is town? who do you think is scum? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/511 "2015-07-25T21:26:41Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Did you re-read any of the posts in question? Or are you taking his version of events 100% at face value? Yes, I did re-read the posts. No, I’m not taking his version at face value. Mainly I wanted to see how you would respond to the attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/512 "2015-07-25T21:29:24Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Man, I am so not a fan of this post. It feels really disingenous to use phrasing like “howling” when wolf hunting. Kind of an ad hom attack? Not exactly, I guess. Not sure exactly what to call it. I note you attack the phrasing, but not the logic. Nonetheless, there are others more suspicious at the moment, so: unvote JSexton. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/513 "2015-07-25T21:50:49Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I note you attack the phrasing, but not the logic. > Nonetheless, there are others more suspicious at the moment, so: What logic? I’ve been against trying to game that mechanic since before the game started. When I mod games, my rules include a specific prohibition against trying manipulate the rules rather than just playing the game, with the caveat that it will always go against the person trying to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/514 "2015-07-25T21:53:22Z")
Sorry for lack of posts today. I was busy with my kids. It’s my weekend with them. I will post more tonight after I get a chance to really read through today’s activities. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/515 "2015-07-25T22:06:45Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I note you attack the phrasing, but not the logic. > Nonetheless, there are others more suspicious at the moment, so: > > unvote JSexton. Who? And when did those suspicions arise? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/516 "2015-07-25T22:43:13Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Man, I am so not a fan of this post. It feels really disingenous to use phrasing like “howling” when wolf hunting. Kind of an ad hom attack? Not exactly, I guess. Not sure exactly what to call it. Yes, I agree. It either betrays the poster, **Prof. Pepperwinkle** , as set in his idea of you as scum against reason or logic, or him as taunting you… Or something? It does not betray a rationale behind the opinion. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I note you attack the phrasing, but not the logic. > Nonetheless, there are others more suspicious at the moment, so: > > unvote JSexton. This also doesn’t say much. And to **Nonsuch** ’s defense, **Jsexton** , he may not have been the most active, but I remember at least a few posts earlier with some substance out of seventeen, while **Prof. Pepperwinkle** has had twenty tries and not provided us with anything useful so far. My first vote, **Precambrianmollusc haven’t posted anything with substance at all, and managed to confuse people at the same time, and no one seems to be calling him out on anything. Johnny Bravo** is barely noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/517 "2015-07-25T22:54:35Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Yes, I did re-read the posts. No, I’m not taking his version at face value. Mainly I wanted to see how you would respond to the attacks. What is this? Are you trying out some silent inquisitor type thing? It isn’t working, please change tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/518 "2015-07-25T23:30:17Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I thought I had addressed this point (and **JSexton** ’s similar post) already but I don’t see that post so I guess I never hit submit. The short version is that that post was sloppy, and you and **JSexton** are correct that it’s not totally accurate, so it bears clarifying: > > **Dante G** actually voted to lynch **Chronos** because he didn’t like the plan (which I note now that **Sario** has also copped to). That, along with the fact that seriously every single one of his posts has been just godawful scummy on average – seriously, reread from the beginning, anyone curious, because in my opinion it’s kept up since I voted – is why my vote is on him. > > You and **JSexton** are right - you didn’t go after **Chronos** because of that proposal, the way that **Dante** did. What you did was go after **Chronos** in general, whereas I thought **Chronos** was playing pro-Town. In my original post I said “and so,” like the one followed the other, but I just wrote it badly. The other people who have voted for **Chronos** I was somewhat suspicious of because I thought, at that point, that **Chronos** was the closest thing to solid Town that we had. Voting for **Chronos** seems mildly scummy to me because of that, not because I think everyone voted him specifically because of the tiebreak ideas. > > And, to reiterate, I think voting him because of the tiebreak idea is the worse sin, since I think it’s, at best, not designed to catch scum, and at worst, opportunistic and scummy. I think a Town player might very well complain about the proposal, but I think s/he would be hesitant to try to kill the person who proposed it. I think I have you on my good list. **Dante G** , by the way, is still in my black book. I’m not sure if he’s scummy, or if he just has a very curious way of playing, one that would make games seemingly bizarre to me, but I’m not sure that would really matter this early in the game. If it continues, I’m sure, and I think sooner rather than later he’ll hang so I’m almost sure he can’t be alpha though, but if he turns out to be, I’ll be both dumbfounded and kind of pleased, because that would be an amazing charade to pull in a crowd like this. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/519 "2015-07-25T23:47:35Z")
OOG: Wow, I should really start breaking off my sentences. I remember that thread back a month or so ago about old people just talking on and on, and I’m getting high as a kite. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/520 "2015-07-26T00:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Prof. Pepperwinkle** : > > I note you attack the phrasing, but not the logic. > Nonetheless, there are others more suspicious at the moment, so: > > unvote JSexton. Y’know, if I weren’t already mostly-convinced that **TexCat** is Scum, that post by itself would be enough for a vote. The whole point of unvoting someone because others are more suspicious, is so you can vote for one of those others. I might say that it was just taking you a while to get your new case put together, but it’s been nearly three hours. Really, what it looks most like is a Wolf who wanted to spend some time voting for a teammate for the sake of appearances, but who didn’t want to be stuck on him at the end of the Day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=27)