# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/521 "2015-07-26T00:39:12Z")
I re-read some of the thread and remembered this weird post: > [@Dante\_G](#): > > Yeah, I was one of those wanderers… sorry about that. Forgot about the > rule. How could a veteran “player” forget about that? Did we ever find out about that? And I agree Chronos, that is an incredibly uninforming vote, on the border of being unhelpful. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/522 "2015-07-26T00:41:01Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sure. Here is what I said when I voted the first time. > > Then I voted, which I’ve removed from the quote. Oh, Mahaloth, do you still have your vote on **JSexton** , **Mahaloth**? I don’t think it’s a great use of a vote, with all the other candidates out there. Could you be persuaded to forgo your vibe-tingle for another candidate? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/523 "2015-07-26T01:21:06Z")
Okay. New players, or players that are “busy, blabla”, could any of you please come forward with at least one substantial explanation for that. One explanation that might shed a bit more light than “I’m with the kids” or “We’re in the process of moving” or “I’m not used to this” or “Vacation”. It is closing in on night, day after day various people ask several times. It’s getting tiring. Apparently I post a lot when playing Forum Mafia, I’ll give you that. I \*talk \*a lot in general. Some people do not like playing with me because I make them feel worthless. What they fail to understand is that I also feel I am just as worthless, \*unless \*I talk. Unless I explain why I believe what I believe. I have made a guy so frustrated that he didn’t want to talk to me afterwards. Guys, it’s just a game, and I never flat out insults someone unless I am one hundred percent sure they are scum. They might not be, but if we’re at the end of a day, or closing in on the late game for that matter, what am I to believe. You’re not giving anything worthwhile to the discussion. Some players, some that right now refuse to provide answers to very direct questions, who also might be scum, try to hide among you. And you’re not helping us catch them unless you’re posting. We have no way of knowing anything about you, but we really need it! **Precambrianmollusc** , **Prof. Pepperwinkle** , **Dante G** , **sangfroid** , **Johnny Bravo** , **Cygnus42** , you all have under fifteen posts so far, some are more stinky than others, and there are posters **WAY** more stinky than \*you \*that posts much more, and thus have much more to answer for. Still, it would be extremely helpful if you chime in an explanation with bit more substance. And please feel free to share any more thoughts that enter your heads! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/524 "2015-07-26T01:53:42Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Okay. > > New players, or players that are “busy, blabla”, could any of you please come forward with at least one substantial explanation for that. One explanation that might shed a bit more light than “I’m with the kids” or “We’re in the process of moving” or “I’m not used to this” or “Vacation”. It is closing in on night, day after day various people ask several times. It’s getting tiring. > > Apparently I post a lot when playing Forum Mafia, I’ll give you that. I \*talk \*a lot in general. Some people do not like playing with me because I make them feel worthless. What they fail to understand is that I also feel I am just as worthless, \*unless \*I talk. Unless I explain why I believe what I believe. I have made a guy so frustrated that he didn’t want to talk to me afterwards. Guys, it’s just a game, and I never flat out insults someone unless I am one hundred percent sure they are scum. They might not be, but if we’re at the end of a day, or closing in on the late game for that matter, what am I to believe. You’re not giving anything worthwhile to the discussion. Some players, some that right now refuse to provide answers to very direct questions, who also might be scum, try to hide among you. And you’re not helping us catch them unless you’re posting. We have no way of knowing anything about you, but we really need it! > **Precambrianmollusc** , **Prof. Pepperwinkle** , **Dante G** , **sangfroid** , **Johnny Bravo** , **Cygnus42** , you all have under fifteen posts so far, some are more stinky than others, and there are posters **WAY** more stinky than \*you \*that posts much more, and thus have much more to answer for. Still, it would be extremely helpful if you chime in an explanation with bit more substance. And please feel free to share any more thoughts that enter your heads! Agreed. And if you are town you win if we win\* even if you are dead!\*! While I suspect most of us want to keep playing, your insight now will help even when you are dead because we will know you were telling the truth once we know for certain you were town. Similarly when scum are dead we will know that their posts were in some way lies, even if it is not clear right away what they were up to. So if you are town POST! Leave a record of your thoughts. You signed up for this game and your town needs you now! And for what it is worth (as a newbie player who signed up expecting to get his ass kicked by experienced players, and still expecting it), I don’t think **Plumpudding** is scum ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/525 "2015-07-26T02:04:47Z")
Except, **Plumpudding** , just for my own piece of mind, explain to me your comments about what happens when you play Forum Mafia (from the post I just quoted, and the second post of this entire game when you said you were a newbie. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/526 "2015-07-26T02:17:01Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Except, **Plumpudding** , just for my own piece of mind, explain to me your comments about what happens when you play Forum Mafia (from the post I just quoted) and the second post of this entire game when you said you were a newbie. Thanks. Just fixing for readability. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/527 "2015-07-26T02:20:16Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Agreed. And if you are town you win if we win\* even if you are dead!\*! While I suspect most of us want to keep playing, your insight now will help even when you are dead because we will know you were telling the truth once we know for certain you were town. Similarly when scum are dead we will know that their posts were in some way lies, even if it is not clear right away what they were up to. > > So if you are town POST! Leave a record of your thoughts. You signed up for this game and your town needs you now! > > And for what it is worth (as a newbie player who signed up expecting to get his ass kicked by experienced players, and still expecting it), I don’t think **Plumpudding** is scum I may be scum. You don’t know. You can however read what I say and comment on it. And I leave a track like anyone else. If I say something scummy, be on me, question me, and then determine for yourself if I am scum or not. > [@Biotop](#): > > Except, **Plumpudding** , just for my own piece of mind, explain to me your comments about what happens when you play Forum Mafia (from the post I just quoted, and the second post of this entire game when you said you were a newbie. Thanks. I may seem quite agressive, but that’s because I need discussion to do anything at all. I cannot do anything worthwhile in an echo-chamber, and neither can you. Storyteller’s fluff is wrong, this isn’t a village with an infestation, this is a village of 19 people in the middle of the desert with a limited water-supply. To get anywhere we have to at least try to co-operate, or we will fail. And lastly, OOG: I am a newbie to this. This is quite a different form of communication than what I am used to. Usually when I form an argument, I either say it there and then or I write an essay, usually for school. In Mafia and it’s iterations(as I mentioned before I’ve played a bit of The Resistance face-to-face), a game about arguing, I sometimes seem like a douche, but I am playing a game. And in game I don’t care about your feelings. Out of game I do. In the game I mentioned, that guy slipped before the first vote, barely after we started. He managed to get a look at another players card, then agreed that it wasn’t such a big deal. Which meant he knew it already. I saw that, and yelled at him for an insanely long game, until he finally relented. He tried to change seats, good thing I managed to keep him. So sorry if any of your feelings get hurt, but remember that I don’t carry game stuff out of the game. I’m gonna go over some more of **TexCat** ’s more recent posts, I’ll be back soon. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/528 "2015-07-26T02:29:55Z")
No problem, **Plumpudding**. I don’t think you are scum, but right now it is easy to be a little paranoid so thanks for responding. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/529 "2015-07-26T02:40:24Z")
Okay, I wanna highlight what I would call uneccessary dramatic behaviour, misleading advice and useless posting, all on page 6 for everyone to see: > [@TexCat](#): > > [Snip] > WTF? First and foremost, I never promoted random voting. Where are you getting that? Secondly, as I understood Biotop’s original plan, only the 1st mason would have to claim. But thirdly, if you think that a claimed mason is not more vulnerable to a night kill than an unclaimed mason, you are just delusional. (Perhaps that also explains the random voting fantasy.) Okay! I’m apparently delusional. All caps WHAT THE FUCK? Really? And then a statement, nothing more. A statement that has nothing to do with what I said. How on earth is this apparent “outrage” justified as a response? And I still haven’t gotten an answer, three pages further in. TexCat, have you put me on ignore? > [@TexCat](#): > > I beg your pardon. How was my behavior scummy as hell? I looked at Biotop’s proposal and pointed out the disadvantages to town, that we’d likely expose the masons and that we had a chance of lynching our cop and doc. After I pointed those out, Chronos came up with a better scheme. Why are you (mis)-characterizing that as scummy? No you didn’t. There weren’t any disadvantages at all. Yes, that is scummy behaviour. > [@TexCat](#): > > Take the bait? By pointing out flaws in Biotop’s plan? This is bologna and you know it. > > Did you read Septimus’s response? Why don’t you mention that? He didn’t point out flaws in the plan from the town side, he showed how scum could counteract it. Misleading and still without any new content. Just parroting. > [@TexCat](#): > > How would the power roles be able to claim? And how would we catch 2 wolves? One of us didn’t understand the plan I guess. This just makes no sense. He was quite active in helping to formulate it. This is just bullshit. > [@TexCat](#): > > I would go so far as to say that\*\* ALL townies should vote for whoever they think\*\* is the scummiest. (And I wouldn’t mind if the wolves did this as well :rolleyes:) > > And I am a woman and prefer she, but am not bothered at all by being called he/him on the interwebs. And I’ve come to believe yet again that this is a lie to, apart from the woman-stuff. No! They should co-operate and argue and scrutinize every inch of every post. No one should vote just whatever they think! \*\*Whatever \*\*being the key word. This is a “helpful” statement, do not believe her intentions are for the best of town. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/530 "2015-07-26T02:43:48Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > No problem, **Plumpudding**. I don’t think you are scum, but right now it is easy to be a little paranoid so thanks for responding. I know. We just need to keep a level head, and try to be as contructive as we can. The game began as an educational psychological experiment/party game. It is very reasonable to be paranoid! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/531 "2015-07-26T02:45:14Z")
Okay! 13 hours in the car, but I am home now and will contribute. > [@septimus](#): > > 😕 Do you think Wolves needed this explained? Do you think with 18 self-votes, Wolves would have just thought “Our Alpha Wolf is about to be Lynched – oh well, that’s life!” ? I don’t know. I don’t have access to the scum boards, after all. Maybe they sussed all this out before the night was over, or maybe some of the folks making a point of explaining exactly how the plan could be foiled were doing it for the benefit of their fellow canines.\* There’s a lot of WIFOM there, though. I’d prefer to focus on reasons why I think you’ve been scummy that I can back up with something approaching data. > [@septimus](#): > > When did anyone shine the light of scrutiny on me, and what were the bullshit excuses I made? 1. If you weren’t feeling scrutinized, you wouldn’t have posted that long screed defending yourself, right? Or were you just feeling pre-emptively defensive? Either way, scummy. You were also clearly responding to Biotop’s excellent post explaining why he did not like where the plan was going. 1. I’ve already pointed out your really shifty list of reasons why you were acting “impulsively or compulsively,” but I will focus on a particular line from it (post #456). > [@septimus](#): > > I acted partly on the Imp of the Perverse, I’m afraid… Let’s look up the definition of “Imp of the Perverse” for those of us unfamiliar with the concept. [The Imp of the Perverse is a metaphor for the urge to do exactly the wrong thing in a given situation **for the sole reason that it is possible for wrong to be done**.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imp_of_the_Perverse) Bolding is mine. I submit that taking a course of action that one **knows to be the wrong one** is scummy play and is an _excellent reason_ to draw a Day 1 vote. I’d also like to point out something you said in post #486: > [@septimus](#): > > . I especially don’t like the case against me 😃 and point a big FOS against those voting me. Pointing a FOS at people **solely** for voting you on Day 1 is scummy. Nobody is safe from being voted on Day 1, and it is **not scummy** to vote on Day 1 and see how people react. It’s all we have, really. In this case, your reaction is going “nuh uh, you!” without any analysis or logic. It’s one thing to enact a defense against your accusers, but it’s quite another to try and shift blame if you don’t have any evidence beyond saying that your own innocence is, well, self-evident. More pings on my scumdar. * * * That’s what I have on **septimus** for now. I know that analysis of the other extant cases is important, but I am quite sleepy. That will be forthcoming, I hope, tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/532 "2015-07-26T03:00:47Z")
Great to hear from you! Sounds tiring! I’m not sure about your first point, I think it could swing either way. I agree with all your other points though, he is scum. Also don’t forget **TexCat** ’s vote. It may be a diversion, creating a precedent to vote her instead of him. A reverse bussing of sorts, creating a situation where some might believe a “poor oppressed victim of baseless attacks” ploy. Your post is legit in my opinion. Get to sleep! I’m looking forward to seeing more from you tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/533 "2015-07-26T03:19:08Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > [Snip] > septimus I agree with post 360 – scum can screw with us and get mis lynch and things rapidly go sideways, sure we get a would, but we lose the masons pretty quickly, **then again like texcat, I can see it as a scum move** , depends on motivation, which we cant know > Texcat had I have pretty much agreed from night zero that the coordinated lync is problematic to town. I could see a wolf not liking the scheme, I know I don’t but then , I know I am town, **I don’t know what tex cat is. Slight scum lean for now** > Thing - **lots of discussion** > > I think I will vote > > vote sangfroid Okay. This is starting to look really suspicious. So He’s for and against both \*\*Septimus \*\*and **TexCat** , then rounds of his analysis with “lots of discussion”? And then he votes \*\*sangfroid \*\*for no stated reason! Why?! And why am I the only one even talking about it? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/534 "2015-07-26T03:45:29Z")
I think \*\*Septimus \*\*may have envisioned a village where the tie-breaker might have been used by town as a threat and maybe one lynch, at best. It would give maybe a slight bump, if we could have continued to lynch at least some wolves the traditional way. But that would have required us to keep our numbers. The topic itself is diverting people already, and there’s ample opportunity to cofuse people, both veteran and newbie. Both him and \*\*TexCat \*\*have objected to revealing a mason or two, without ever explaining why. Both him and \*\*TexCat \*\*openly suggested to wait using the mechanic itself several times. How would that help town? And how is casting suspicions both ways at the same time helpful for the discussion? When prompted for an opinion they both seem to display a double-standard, saying both for and against in the same post. I think he got anxious, and needed a diversion for some heat on **TexCat** , who rode silently under most of it, and still hasn’t rebutted any points made against her. Now he seems to try to backpedal, and see if he can sow a little extra confusion while trying to stay out of heat. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/535 "2015-07-26T03:52:05Z")
OK, to answer in regards to a suspicious statement I made earlier about wandering into the out of game thread that is off limits to players - it was a mistake. I am a veteran mafia player, yes. Butnot on Straight Dope. The site I belonged didn’t have strict rules regarding reading the posts in the out of game thread. So I thought nothing of going in this one. Once I got called out on it, I did stop. As for my vote, I’m leaning more towards Septimus at this point. Johnny Bravo pointed out some pretty convincing things that lead me think Septimus is Scum. Since it’s still early in the game, information like this is really all we have to go on. \*\*Vote Septimus \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/536 "2015-07-26T03:54:17Z")
It’d be a lot clearer if you quoted the entire post, including the part that talked about **sangfroid** : > [@](#): > > sangfroid kind of smudging those ( I think he was aiming at Chronos and Texcat) by calling the disagreements a wolf fight So he’s saying that he sees points both in favor of and against both **septimus** and **TexCat** , which is hardly uncommon in this game. And he also sees a point against **sangfroid** , which he clearly stated, and which he presumably considers the best basis for a vote. Meanwhile, his primary observation of **Thing Fish** is that he’s been involved in a lot of discussion, which is true, and is presumably a point in **Thing Fish** ’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/537 "2015-07-26T04:02:14Z")
Yes, but has sangfroid really done that? I’m not sure I agree. And I’m not saying it’s uncommon, but I’ve asked for clarifications for most of the thread already. I’m just adding stuff that might be interesting to get an answer for. To me it looks like he’s doing exactly the same as both \*\*Septimus \*\*and **TexCat** ; blathering while avoiding to answer. ---
**Author:** ![sangfroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@sangfroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sangfroid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/538 "2015-07-26T04:03:44Z")
**Precambrianmollusc’s** casually random vote for me (as was **Dante G’s** , very early in the game) almost made me switch from **TexCat**. There’s so much churn going on now that things are finally starting to get fun! I am Town. I believe that in the first Day, it is mostly the wolves that tend to cause the most commotion and uproar. They obviously have the most to gain by turning Town against Town. Hence my initial restraint at counter-voting **Dante G**. That said, I don’t usually post a crap-ton of content until I actually have something to go on. As mentioned, wolfies love to stir the sh\*t, IMHO. I would. So, where from here? Based on my own readings and interpretations, as well as those of others here that are a lot more experienced _on this board_ than I, my vote stands. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/539 "2015-07-26T04:11:57Z")
You think so? If anything, I expect wolves to lay low more. Discussion is, after all, how we catch wolves, and so fostering discussion is pro-Town. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/540 "2015-07-26T04:22:57Z")
I don’t know, it’s hard to know when they flat out ignore to provide answers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=28)