# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/541 "2015-07-26T04:31:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > [Snip] > Meanwhile, his primary observation of **Thing Fish** is that he’s been involved in a lot of discussion, which is true, and is presumably a point in **Thing Fish** ’s favor. Yeah, but it is one of the laziest point in favor of anyone I’ve seen. Basically filler. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/542 "2015-07-26T04:33:29Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > OK, to answer in regards to a suspicious statement I made earlier about wandering into the out of game thread that is off limits to players - it was a mistake. I am a veteran mafia player, yes. Butnot on Straight Dope. The site I belonged didn’t have strict rules regarding reading the posts in the out of game thread. So I thought nothing of going in this one. Once I got called out on it, I did stop. > > As for my vote, I’m leaning more towards Septimus at this point. Johnny Bravo pointed out some pretty convincing things that lead me think Septimus is Scum. Since it’s still early in the game, information like this is really all we have to go on. > > \*\*Vote Septimus \*\* Fair enough for now. ---
**Author:** ![sangfroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@sangfroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sangfroid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/543 "2015-07-26T04:41:05Z")
[out of game content] Since this is my first game here at the venerable SDMB, I feel the need to point out that my own time online is actually quite limited. I dislike using phones to text and such - just not my thing. Fat fingers, I guess. I don’t have access at work. I drop in, read, post what I feel is relevant at the time, then enjoy life. It was mentioned upthread that posters are begging off due to other issues, life getting in the way, etc. I don’t feel it detracts from the game that much. For my situation, much as I love to play these kinds of games, life and family comes first. I did in fact take my kids to their final track meet two hours away today, and had an awesome time in the beautiful Northeast Kingdom of Vermont. Low eighties, cool breeze, one of mine flat-out won the 80m hurdles, and we got out early. Wonderful day! Then I came home and caught up on some things and checked in to the game here. That’s just how I approach these things. If a lack of incessant posting seems too scummy, y’all can feel free to lynch at will. I agree that sometimes it is indeed indicative of wolfish behavior. I’ve never really liked that play style, though. Fully half of the first Day conversation was about an arcane (albeit important) subset of the rules. I didn’t have much to add to that conversation. I’m having fun. I hope most everyone else is too. Let’s see what happens, hope that the black hats self-destruct, and then we can all have a big party at the _Cecilton Inne_. Then we can argue over who’s buying. And make sure to get away from the keyboard and out into the sunshine. You won’t regret it. Promise. 🙂 [/oogc] ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/544 "2015-07-26T04:45:29Z")
And that is an answer with some substance, which is why I’m not very fired to hunt you at the moment. You have been a bit short of words sometimes, but you’re not sitting out hoping the questions will go away, and that is a good thing in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/545 "2015-07-26T04:46:27Z")
> [@sangfroid](#): > > I am Town. I believe that in the first Day, it is mostly the wolves that tend to cause the most commotion and uproar. They obviously have the most to gain by turning Town against Town. Nope. Wolves would be most likely, I think, to lay low and go with the flow. Year of playing has taught me that lots of folks tend to lynch the loud and suggestive. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/546 "2015-07-26T04:48:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Maybe they sussed all this out before the night was over, or maybe some of the folks making a point of explaining exactly how the plan could be foiled were doing it for the benefit of their fellow canines.\* Catching up on thread in bed on phone and realize I left that asterisk hanging. Just an artifact that got left in after an umpteenth preview/edit. I honestly have no idea what I had put there originally. I think some sort of joke about wolves that would have fallen flat if I’d left it in. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/547 "2015-07-26T09:42:04Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > … You are not the most silent player; There are seven players more silent than you. This is why I find it handy to keep this list,\* and\* share it publically. > > … > Plumpudding IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII IIIII II 42 > … > Prof. Pepperwinkle IIIII IIIII IIIII IIII 20 > … > septimus IIIII IIIII II 12 > DiggitCamara IIIII IIIII II 12 > Jimmy Chitwood IIIII IIIII I 11 > sangfroid IIIII IIIII 10 > Cygnus42 IIIII IIII 9 > Johnny Bravo IIIII 5 > > [I didn’t look for Plumpudding’s most recent list, just clicked on any to make my point] I agree that some (not all) of the Wolves are likelly to “hide” among the low-activity posters. But the raw post counts do NOT tell the story; indeed publishing them may do more harm than good. For example, I am near the bottom of the list, but the accusations made against me are not for inactivity, if anything they’re for hyperactivity. Contrast that with **Prof. Pepperwinkle** who’s made a lot of single-sentence posts. And his single sentences usually have nothing to do with scum-hunting; they’re easy questions about the mechanics. One can almost hear crocodile tears: “I don’t have Scum friends to ask my easy questions.” **Plumpudding** , post counts are only a starting-point for measuring activity; if you really want to perform a Town service you need to analyze the content. Bragging that you’re number two in raw count gives you no Town cred. **Prof. Pepperwinkle** , you are now my Third-most-likely to be Scum. I’m relaxing my suspicions of Chronos, in part becuase he’s voting for the #1 Most-liley Scum, **TexCat**. I have much more of great importance to say but will wait until a later message, to bump my post count. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/548 "2015-07-26T09:51:28Z")
Very unoffiical vote count. I’ve not double-checked it; there are probably errors. septimus (5) - Johnny Bravo, TexCat, DiggitCamara, Sario, Dante G TexCat (4) - Chronos, sangfroid, Plumpudding, septimus JSexton (3)- Mahaloth, Cygnus42, Bayard, [del]Prof. Pepperwinkle[/del] Dante G (3) - [del]Mahaloth[/del], [del]DiggitCamara[/del], [del]Chronos[/del], JSexton, Jimmy Chitwood, Biotop Sario (1) - Thing Fish Sangfroid (1) - [del]Dante G[/del], Precambrianmollusc Thing Fish (0) - [del]Sario[/del] Chronos (0) - [del]Thing Fish[/del], [del]JSexton[/del], [del]Dante G[/del], [del]septimus[/del], [del]Sario[/del] Precambrianmollusc (0) - [del]Plumpudding[/del] I note that those voting for Townie Septimus are all suspicious sorts! I’d bet even-money _at least_ two of my five voters are Scum, worried that TexCat and/or Dante G is going down. (This is _ **NOT** _ the post of “great importance” alluded to in the prequel, but is just another in my desperate surge to get out of the Seven Most Inactive Posters Club. 😛 :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![Cygnus42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Cygnus42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cygnus42)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/549 "2015-07-26T12:45:45Z")
Quick update via phone, while waiting in an urgent care center. … I’m still comfortable with my current vote of JSexton, but remain suspicious of DanteG. I think DanteG has decided to lay low for a while, to let things cool down for him. I don’t think he’ll be forgotten entirely though. I don’t know where I stand on the Texcat / septimus beef though. Both have made suspicious posts - have to look at these posts more closely, depending on who survives this first Day. Can’t review to easily here - i want to take another look at the one-off vote posts made by a few people earlier too. I’ll be able to check back in tonight, to see where things stand. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/550 "2015-07-26T13:22:44Z")
> [@Cygnus42](#): > > I don’t know where I stand on the Texcat / septimus beef though. Both have made suspicious posts - have to look at these posts more closely, depending on who survives this first Day. :smack: TexCat and I are the Lynch leaders; as you imply one of will be Lynched (or MISLynched) toDay. Wouldn’t Town’s interests be better served if you study the cases NOW, rather than waiting until _after_ the Lynch/MISLynch? _ **I am Town** _. Townies, please help avert my MisLynch. I am not 100% sure TexCat is Scum, but she’s definitely my top candidate. Look at the list of voters and see that TexCat is being voted by the relatively trusted Chronos and Pudding, while my votes come from Bravo (who admits to being on vacation and having little time to study), distrusted and unhelpful Dante G, and (probable Scum) TexCat herself. ---
**Author:** ![Cygnus42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Cygnus42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cygnus42)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/551 "2015-07-26T13:41:17Z")
Septimus - I should have time tonight to read over the case against you tonight. You make a valid point on who’s voting you - I just didn’t get a scum sense from Texcat myself though. I’ll have time to move my vote if necessary - can post from work, and end of day is also lunchtime. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/552 "2015-07-26T14:07:19Z")
Vote Texcat. Having gone back and re-read large portions, and realizing that I’m screwing up my first game of Mafia, I’m guessing Biotop and septimus are Town. Since I am Town, voting for TexCat, who is suspected by more experienced players than I, seems appropriate at least. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/553 "2015-07-26T15:06:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I agree that some (not all) of the Wolves are likelly to “hide” among the low-activity posters. But the raw post counts do NOT tell the story; indeed publishing them may do more harm than good. > > For example, I am near the bottom of the list, but the accusations made against me are not for inactivity, if anything they’re for hyperactivity. Contrast that with **Prof. Pepperwinkle** who’s made a lot of single-sentence posts. And his single sentences usually have nothing to do with scum-hunting; they’re easy questions about the mechanics. One can almost hear crocodile tears: “I don’t have Scum friends to ask my easy questions.” > > **Plumpudding** , post counts are only a starting-point for measuring activity; if you really want to perform a Town service you need to analyze the content. Bragging that you’re number two in raw count gives you no Town cred. > > **Prof. Pepperwinkle** , you are now my Third-most-likely to be Scum. I’m relaxing my suspicions of Chronos, in part becuase he’s voting for the #1 Most-liley Scum, **TexCat**. > > I have much more of great importance to say but will wait until a later message, to bump my post count. 😛 When have I ever stated that a post/count is evidence of anything other than of in/activity? And when have I been “bragging” about being number two in it? I know a post-count is just one data-point, and I have several times stated why it might be handy to have there for everyone to see, without any actual rebuttal of my points by you or **TexCat**. I’m not posting it to get town-cred, I’m posting it so that people know who’s active and who’s not. Inactivity kills the game. And no, I do not believe publishing them does more harm than good, and you have not demonstrated why I should believe that. Accusations against you have mostly been based on you being a two-face that flips, flops and says both something \*and \*it’s opposite at the same time. Make no mistake, no one is pushing to lynch you for saying too much, they’re pushing for you for saying too much _suspicious bullshit_. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/554 "2015-07-26T15:29:42Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Vote Texcat. > > Having gone back and re-read large portions, and realizing that I’m screwing up my first game of Mafia, I’m guessing Biotop and septimus are Town. Since I am Town, voting for TexCat, who is suspected by more experienced players than I, seems appropriate at least. So why do _you_ believe **TexCat** is scum? And why would you believe **Septimus** is town? It would be helpful if you posted a bit more about why you believe what you believe. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/555 "2015-07-26T15:35:01Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Okay, I wanna highlight what I would call uneccessary dramatic behaviour, misleading advice and useless posting, all on page 6 for everyone to see: > Okay! I’m apparently delusional. All caps WHAT THE FUCK? Really? And then a statement, nothing more. A statement that has nothing to do with what I said. How on earth is this apparent “outrage” justified as a response? And I still haven’t gotten an answer, three pages further in. TexCat, have you put me on ignore? > No you didn’t. There weren’t any disadvantages at all. Yes, that is scummy behaviour. > Misleading and still without any new content. Just parroting. > This just makes no sense. He was quite active in helping to formulate it. This is just bullshit. > And I’ve come to believe yet again that this is a lie to, apart from the woman-stuff. No! They should co-operate and argue and scrutinize every inch of every post. No one should vote just whatever they think! \*\*Whatever \*\*being the key word. This is a “helpful” statement, do not believe her intentions are for the best of town. I haven’t put you on ignore, but I am trying to ignore all of your hyperbole. You continue to lie and mischaracterize what I’ve said, and you think I should not be outraged? > [@TexCat](#): > > I would go so far as to say that ALL townies should vote for whoever they think is the scummiest. (And I wouldn’t mind if the wolves did this as well :rolleyes:) Evidently my use of the word “whoever” must have confused you. My post was a response to Thing Fish who also used the word “whoever” and yet you haven’t accused him of advocating for random voting or called his statement a lie. > [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So, basically, in this game **ordinary Townies should just vote for _whoever_ they think is scummiest**. > > But Masons and Wolves have to balance three competing imperatives: > > 1. Stay out of ties > 2. Don’t be too obvious about doing so > 3. And, oh yeah, try to vote for members of the other team > > This is great for Town! While only one-fifth of our team has to consider voting based on considerations other than lynching the other guys, ALL of their team is laboring under that burden. And of course, if a Mason’s behavior attracts suspicion, s/he just has to claim to avoid being lynched, while a Wolf doesn’t have that option. > > I don’t think we should be overly concerned about trying to protect the Masons. Obviously they should do their best to avoid standing out, and it would be great if they can all survive until the endgame, when their mass reveal could deal a deathblow to the wolves. But that’s very unlikely to happen; given that 15% of all players are Masons, if we assume that lynches and NKs happen at random, there’s about a 50% chance that a Mason will either be killed or forced to claim just within the first two days. In this game, where Mason tells look just like Wolf tells, the odds are probably even worse. So we shouldn’t make ourselves too crazy trying to maximize the chances of an outcome which will always be highly unlikely. > > BTW, I and others have been careful to use non-sexist language like “s/he” so far, but are there actually any women in this game? You say “There weren’t any disadvantages at all.” But there clearly were disadvantages to Biotop’s original plan. Or did you think that the further improvements on it were not improvements? I suspect that you are just an over-eager townie who is trying too hard to get his favorite suspect lynched, but you are not doing yourself or town any favors by all of this hyperbole, mischaracterization, and outright lies. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/556 "2015-07-26T15:49:22Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > When have I ever stated that a post/count is evidence of anything other than of in/activity?.. > > Accusations against you have mostly been based on you being a two-face that flips, flops and says both something \*and \*it’s opposite at the same time. Make no mistake, no one is pushing to lynch you for saying too much, they’re pushing for you for saying too much _suspicious bullshit_. But I contrasted my involvement with Pepperwinkle’s to show that a count of _number of words_ rather than _number of posts_ would give a very different answer. Not that even word count is important – as I say, it can only be a starting point. And it is interesting that you, pushing the post counts, now _lead the post count race_! But I don’t suspect you for that; I have you as neutral or townish. And the flip side of activity and the flexibility that comes with sincerity is that an active sincere player is likely to make some flip-flops. For example, JSexton flipped 180 degress on Chronos, but _I view that as a Town tell_. It is Scum who are are most likely to cling to old ideas (trying to avoid suspicion). I do realize that my flip-flop might seem particularly egregious, but what was the Scum motive? Do you really think I advised Wolves on how to combat the plan, and then later switched to support the plan? Wouldn’t it have been smarter Scum play to just join the plan, hinting at “advice” only later if it appeared necessary? That’s the charge, as I understand it. But if you really find it plausible, please vote to Lynch me. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/557 "2015-07-26T16:57:27Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Nope. Wolves would be most likely, I think, to lay low and go with the flow. Year of playing has taught me that lots of folks tend to lynch the loud and suggestive. I think it depends on the player. Prolofic town players need to be prolific when scum, or it’s just instantly obvious when they fail to be prolific or aggressive. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/558 "2015-07-26T17:01:41Z")
\*\*Mod: \*\*Can we get an official votecount? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/559 "2015-07-26T17:27:51Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Accusations against you have mostly been based on you being a two-face that flips, flops and says both something \*and \*it’s opposite at the same time. And FWIW, _as I did say at the time_, my change of opinion (“flip-flop”) on the effectiveness of the self-vote plan came when I realized we’d only do it for one cycle. One Scum per two Lynches is a bad outcome late in the game, but a good result for Days 1 & 2. ---
**Author:** ![sangfroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@sangfroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sangfroid)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/560 "2015-07-26T18:15:02Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > \*\*Mod: \*\*Can we get an official votecount? Seconded. I too would like to see an official Mod/Host update on the whole game status - votes, Day/Night status, PM update if anyone has actually decided to follow through on dropping out (which has been mentioned, but I hope doesn’t happen - really screws with the game mechanics, IMO), etc… Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=29)