# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/561 "2015-07-26T18:17:26Z")
Lord knows I have no desire to bring up the whole tie breaking storm again, but I would like to know just how ties are going to be settled as we are near Zero Hour. Especially as a tie looks remotely possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/562 "2015-07-26T18:54:55Z")
Yeah, uh, the best case scenario is probably to avoid a tie. Unfortunately, I’m not about to help with that. **unvote Dante G vote TexCat** As it becomes more likely that it will come down to **septimus** and **TexCat** (most of the recent discussion being on that subject), I think it’s better to at least get us back to square one to talk about it. I’ve reread each of them once and come away without a super strong inclination. I still prefer the case against **Dante** as easily the more likely to avoid a wasted lynch, but I’m voting **TexCat** over **septimus** , for two reasons: I don’t understand the case against **septimus** and I do understand his responses to the case[s] against him, and I feel obligated to make the percentage play given that I think it’s pretty likely we’re about to lynch a townsperson if no votes change; and I do think there’s some sense in the arguments against **TexCat** ’s objections to the plan. Most notably, there were at least a couple of objections (#337’s investigating the Alpha and #383’s “how will it kill 2 wolves”) which clearly didn’t have a lot of thought behind them, which is notable in the context of a very analytical discussion in which she had a clear opinion. A wolf would have had a reason to start with a conclusion first and try to gin up the reasoning to support it. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/563 "2015-07-26T19:53:05Z")
Thanks for unvoting me, Jimmy. I am definitely town. A out of practice towni, but a townie all the same. The cases against Texcat and Septimus are both fairly strong. I’m still staying with my vote for SSeptimus mainly because I don’t want to keep flip flopping around. If Septimus turns up town, well then, next Day phase we can go after Texcat unless a better candidate comes along. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/564 "2015-07-26T20:19:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Many still want to adopt a version of Biotop’s plan. I’m willing to go along. I think we should focus on **Biotop** ’s plan _as amended by **Thing Fish** _. (snipped) > In my earlier post I pointed out that Scum can use last-minute vote shenanigans to get misLynches on Days 1, 3, 5, 7. In the late game, if half our Lynches are misLynches we’re likely to lose, but _Wolf are harder to find early in the game_ so I think _a guaranteed Wolf kill on Day 2 is good enough to adopt the Plan toDay_. > > (snipped) This is the main reason I leave my vote on **septimus**. 1. Finds a flaw in the plan which actually might make it more favorable to the Wolves 2. After the “plan” peters out, gives it a jump-start to get it rolling again despite 3. Not having a real argument to discount the flaw he pointed out in the plan Which, basically, amounts to seeing an advantage in the “plan” (for Wolves) and therefore convincing Town to adopt it. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/565 "2015-07-26T20:20:53Z")
OK, time to hunt some wolf. Here are the little buckets I’ve sorted you all into. **Pretty All Right, As Far As That Goes** I don’t wholly trust anyone, but the following have more or less allayed my suspicions for now: **Biotop Chronos** … and, well, that’s it. These cats have posted actively and maintained a consistent enough pro-Town profile that I have no basis to suspect them, nor have they pinged my scum-dar in any particular way. Yet. **Getting the Stink-Eye from Me** **Plumpudding** I don’t get a strong pro-scum feeling from him, actually, but I’ve found some of Plumpudding’s posts confusing and poorly worded, beyond the ones where he admitted he misspoke. (Miswrote?) You can see pages 14 and 15 where I questioned him on this. He’s made no overt scum tells to my mind, but I get leery when I feel I have to decipher vague posts or if there may be a correction/clarification imminent. **JSexton** Came out very quickly against Chronos in the early hours of the tie-breaker plan, for reasons that never felt entirely solid to me. He’s since revised that vote, of course, and I also spoke out against the forced-tie strategy so I’m not dinging him for that. But I felt his quick denunciation of Chronos carried a whiff of something that might be wolf musk, or it might just be the reek of the ol’ tanning shed here in Ceciltown. **DanteG** His original “close to the vest” post felt too obvious to be a scum slip, but since then I’ve found him shifty and quick to blame his ambiguous posts on being a newbie to SMDB. Which, yeah, that could all be true. But it’s starting to feel like it’s something else. **Septimus & TexCat** This is not as cut and dried to me as it seems to be to others. If you’re debating a complex strategy in real time, then of course people are going to poke and prod it for holes, try to refine it, get things wrong and end up suggesting things that might, on balance, be worse. We don’t all play moneyball on the same level, after all. But it’s not something that can be ignored, and I think the case against TexCat has some weight to it. I think if one were trying to appear to go along with the plan while subtly working against it, that’s more or less how it would look. **No Overt Scum Tells, But No Strong Town Feelings Either** **Bayard Mahaloth sangfroid Sario Thing Fish** **Haven’t Said a Whole Hell of a Lot** **Cygnus42 DiggitCamera Jimmy Chitwood Johnny Bravo Precambrianmollusc Prof. Pepperwinkle** Anyway, unless I pick a random lurker out of the bag — which would not contribute much to the discussion, to say nothing of exposing me to accusations of rank hypocrisy, given my recent absence — I pretty much am stuck climbing on one bandwagon or another. Perils of late voting, I guess. That’s OK, I can accept that. So here goes: vote DanteG ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/566 "2015-07-26T21:24:54Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > YI don’t understand the case against **septimus** Since I’m the one who has made the most detailed case against him, I’ll ask: what parts do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/567 "2015-07-26T22:20:15Z")
I’m not sure that I agree it’s that detailed or multi-faceted. You lay out the case [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18541222#post18541222): > [@](#): > > At the moment, I’m suspicious of Septimus for admitting that the plan is more like “gaming the system,” admitting that it probably won’t work, and then pushing hard for it anyway. Preemptively declaring that anyone reluctant to follow the plan is scummy creates a nice convenient pool of players to point fingers at, even when he has to know that at least a portion of the reluctance is out of a sense of wanting a good game rather than being scum. and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18545239#post18545239): > [@](#): > > This whole thing strikes me as scummy as hell. Septimus has already bounced back and forth across the plan with more flip flops than a south Florida beach in July, and this particular self-deprecating defense of his actions really seals the deal for me. Dude is covering more bases than a… thing that is well known for base covering. Some sort of sportsball player. > > The first Mafia lesson I was ever taught is that you should stand by your actions - not roll over and make a bunch of bullshit excuses the first time somebody shines the light of scrutiny on you. > > vote septimus , I believe. There’s more later, but it’s about things that **septimus** said in response to your vote, not about the things he did that led you to vote. Basically, what I’m reading is that you think he’s trying to have it both ways as far as the tie-breaking scheme is concerned, and he’s flip-flopping. But who has participated in the conversation about the tie-breaker and _not_ gone back and forth to some extent? It’s day one of a Mafia game and a weird tiebreaking scheme that could maybe, or maybe not, have cracked the game open was under discussion… calling it gaming the system and saying probably some things would go wrong is what I would expect pretty much anyone to say. In the course of composing my previous post, where I voted for **TexCat** , I flip-flopped between voting for her, voting for **septimus** , and not changing my vote like seven times. I expect… fluidity… at this point. I don’t read his explanatory post the same way you do, and your response does not delineate, for me, what it is that he’s doing there that you think a wolf would be especially likely to do. From my reading of that post, it isn’t obvious to me what scum **septimus** would be going for. I mean, it’s a bit disjointed and hamfisted, and I don’t _love_ “Because I got high” as an explanation for Mafia behaviors, but it has seemed to me that as between **septimus** and his detractors on the subject of **septimus** ’ actions so far this Day, **septimus** has been reasonably convincing. I would also note that in the post that prompted your vote, he was following up on **JSexton** ’s question to provide more of his thoughts, and then he provided more information about what his own mindset was on a related point. Which are things I would expect Town to want to do. I also think **Dante** is scum, and noted that he latched right onto your case against **septimus** because of “reasons,” which doesn’t lessen my uncertainty about the case. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/568 "2015-07-26T22:38:43Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > There’s more later, but it’s about things that **septimus** said in response to your vote, not about the things he did that led you to vote. 1. No it’s not (not entirely, at any rate). 2. Even if it were, responses to votes are an important thing to consider. It strikes me as odd that you would dismiss post #531 entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/569 "2015-07-26T23:04:52Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I haven’t put you on ignore, but I am trying to ignore all of your hyperbole. You continue to lie and mischaracterize what I’ve said, and you think I should not be outraged? So you haven’t \*put \*me on ignore, but you are ignoring me? When have I lied? I once made a mistake, I agree, though now I’m unsure if it was. Sorry, I’ve been quite forthcoming during the game. I can’t say the same for you. > [@TexCat](#): > > Evidently my use of the word “whoever” must have confused you. My post was a response to Thing Fish who also used the word “whoever” and yet you haven’t accused him of advocating for random voting or called his statement a lie. If you believe what you and **Thing Fish** said is the same, \*you \*are the one that’s delusional. But I don’t actually think that you are. You are scum. [removed spoiler tags] > [@TexCat](#): > > You say “There weren’t any disadvantages at all.” But there clearly were disadvantages to Biotop’s original plan. Or did you think that the further improvements on it were not improvements? No there weren’t. Some people posited that there was a very small possibility that it might be able for wolves to get our numbers down enough to win, but I wholehartedly believe that that would not actually happen. To many wolves would die early in the game, most likely their most important first, and the information from that would likely give the rest away. > [@TexCat](#): > > I suspect that you are just an over-eager townie who is trying too hard to get his favorite suspect lynched, but you are not doing yourself or town any favors by all of this hyperbole, mischaracterization, and outright lies. I may be eager, and I may be aggressive, but that is just who I am. I have not lied, and so far all I’ve posted is either things I find suspicious and/or my theories around that. I may not be doing myself any favours, but I don’t actually _need_ to. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/570 "2015-07-26T23:05:00Z")
Sure, that’s fair, responses to votes are fair game. They don’t make the original case make more sense, though, is my point. There’s enough heat on **septimus** at this point that he’s co-leading the lynch vote, and what I’m getting at is that the source of the heat doesn’t seem to me to be especially clearly set out. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/571 "2015-07-26T23:25:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But I contrasted my involvement with Pepperwinkle’s to show that a count of _number of words_ rather than _number of posts_ would give a very different answer. Not that even word count is important – as I say, it can only be a starting point. And it is interesting that you, pushing the post counts, now _lead the post count race_! But I don’t suspect you for that; I have you as neutral or townish. > > And the flip side of activity and the flexibility that comes with sincerity is that an active sincere player is likely to make some flip-flops. For example, JSexton flipped 180 degress on Chronos, but _I view that as a Town tell_. It is Scum who are are most likely to cling to old ideas (trying to avoid suspicion). > > I do realize that my flip-flop might seem particularly egregious, but what was the Scum motive? Do you really think I advised Wolves on how to combat the plan, and then later switched to support the plan? Wouldn’t it have been smarter Scum play to just join the plan, hinting at “advice” only later if it appeared necessary? That’s the charge, as I understand it. But if you really find it plausible, please vote to Lynch me. I think you should quote the whole post, and you not doing that makes me feel you slippery to the touch. And why did you put a few dots there, instead of a snip of some sort? I haven’t promoted any tactic using post-counts at all. I am keeping it up there for reasons stated. Go back, read and reply. I made my post to **Nonsuch** to tell him that I felt any case made against him because of his post-count is stupid and that I don’t support it. I’m leaning town on Nonsuch, although I would prefer he post more. I haven’t always agreed with him, although sometimes, and atleast he hasn’t done any harm. He’s also been explaining himself fairly well. You on the other hand, have _not_. **Jsexton** ’s motive for voting **Chronos** was because of meta, the same reason you have been having a problem with him. The difference is he voted because of fun/nofun and you voted on him because of “I’ve played Mafia with him before”. You two are not in the same boat. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/572 "2015-07-26T23:52:35Z")
I want to look at post [456](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18544763&postcount=456) abit closer. > [@septimus](#): > > Yes! For several reasons. > (1) I’ve seen him act similarly, forming analytic Town strategies, _in games where he was Scum_. That is meta, and not relevant. Please leave it outside. This is a new game, whatever he has done, whichever role he has had, it doesn’t matter here and now. > [@septimus](#): > > (2) The fact that you (and others?) “can’t imagine myself voting for Chronos” is enormously good for Scum, if that’s what he is. What he might be, no one knows, but it’s quite likely he is town. If he is not, he’s a damn good canine. > [@septimus](#): > > (3) Because the plan couldn’t proceed unless the number of principled holdouts like you was zero (or at most 1 or 2), the chance of it actually being adopted was zero. Scum was under no real threat. Smart scum would have had an incentive, therefore, to adopt the plan eagerly, to blend in. He proposed it in the first place. He gave the first push that made the snowball into an avalanche. He was also with us along the way all to the end. > [@septimus](#): > > (4) The refinement Chronos made to the plan was obvious. I know this because it occurred to me immediately on reading Biotop’s post – I was about to post it but saw Chronos had beaten me to it. Here you say something that no one can actually confirm. I didn’t see it at once. Many others probably didn’t. And your say so is not enough to convince me. > [@septimus](#): > > Expanding on (3), I’m suspicious of those who quickly self-voted. And a Wolf who figured (3) out would have had an incentive to self-vote quickly, thus silently encouraging other Wolves to do the same. You were the first to self-vote, and I’ve outlined why I find that suspicious in earlier posts. Why the rest are supposedly suspicious, I don’t know. Could you explain that. Remember, I self voted, and I don’t think I’m acting very suspiciously. Maybe you disagree. > [@septimus](#): > > Why did I self-vote, indeed help instigate the self-voting? Good question! I acted impulsively or compulsively for several reasons: > > - > - If we didn’t do it today, we’d be thinking of doing it tomorrow, etc. It would be a distraction until “we got it out of our system.” Why did you, who haven’t contributed at all to the discussion of the plan, feel like instigating it? > [@septimus](#): > > - > - it set a “trap”, though I’m not sure how the trap worked. Should we be more or less suspicious of those who self-voted? I “knew” the plan wouldn’t come to pass. Nevertheless, if the plan was unsportsmanlike, it was unsportsmanlike to threaten it, and I apologize if I acted improperly. But, again, it seemed expeditious to “get it out of the way.” For whom did it set a trap? The plan was mostly dead in the water when you acted “impulsively” or “compulsively”? > [@septimus](#): > > - > - I acted partly on the Imp of the Perverse, I’m afraid, almost doing something like Milgram’s Experiment. :smack: **Johnny Bravo** covered this bit. [531](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18548844&postcount=531) > [@septimus](#): > > - > - and I partly blame the _indica_, which lately seems much stronger than when I was young and foolish. 😉 I think more than you can blame that. Me included! > [@septimus](#): > > In summary, I still believe **Chronos** is MORE likely than random to be Scum. I don’t expect him to be Lynched soon, however, so want to find another case. No dice! You don’t expect to be able to lynch him, so you go out looking for a comfortable wagon to sit on while hoping to not have to explain why, while at the same time still not giving a satisfactory explanation for why you think \*\*Chronos \*\*is scum. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/573 "2015-07-27T00:13:05Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > [Snip] > > You say “There weren’t any disadvantages at all.” But there clearly were disadvantages to **Biotop** ’s original plan. Or did you think that the further improvements on it were not improvements? > > [Snip] Backpedalling? I never stated which iteration of the plan I supported, apart from my own interpretation, which would have exposed all masons eventually. I’ve been for discussing the plan all along. The plan got progressively better and, using it having a much greater chance at being an advantage for town than scum, has been my position all along. In it 's final stages it would have been, in my opinion, to great for scum to play around. Too much of an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/574 "2015-07-27T00:30:24Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > [Snip] > You can see pages 14 and 15 where I questioned him on this. > [Snip] We’re on page 12. What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/575 "2015-07-27T00:41:48Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > We’re on page 12. What are you talking about? I forget that not everyone’s view of the boards breaks down the same. See [my post here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18535574&postcount=267), and then [this one here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18535995&postcount=282). ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/576 "2015-07-27T01:06:32Z")
I answered thhe first one with post [269](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18535728&postcount=269), please read it again, and the second one, with post [283](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18536031&postcount=283) and [288](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18536125&postcount=288), in which I tried to say I’m for discussing it, even if it may benefit town or not. As I said, and that’s a direct quote: > [@Plumpudding](#): > > it’s good that everyone actually knows _what_ is going on. Do you not understand this? Is this hard to understand? It doesn’t really matter anyway, if you think I stink, do that. I think we have more important stuff to think about. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/577 "2015-07-27T01:14:25Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So, basically, in this game ordinary Townies should just vote for whoever they think is scummiest. > [@TexCat](#): > > I would go so far as to say that ALL townies should vote for whoever they think is the scummiest. > [@Plumpudding](#): > > If you believe what you and **Thing Fish** said is the same, \*you \*are the one that’s delusional. But I don’t actually think that you are. You are scum. They are awfully close. And besides, I don’t find either of our statements scummy. What’s up with that? > [@Plumpudding](#): > > Backpedalling? I never stated which iteration of the plan I supported, apart from my own interpretation, which would have exposed all masons eventually. I’ve been for discussing the plan all along. The plan got progressively better and, using it having a much greater chance at being an advantage for town than scum, has been my position all along. In it 's final stages it would have been, in my opinion, to great for scum to play around. Too much of an advantage. > [@Plumpudding](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by TexCat View Post > > I beg your pardon. How was my behavior scummy as hell? I looked at Biotop’s proposal and pointed out the disadvantages to town, that we’d likely expose the masons and that we had a chance of lynching our cop and doc. After I pointed those out, Chronos came up with a better scheme. Why are you (mis)-characterizing that as scummy? > > No you didn’t. There weren’t any disadvantages at all. Yes, that is scummy behaviour. Yes, but I was clearly referring to Biotop’s plan, in this response not to you, but to Thing Fish. I was pointing out the disadvantages before Chronos chimed in at all. And here you clearly say that there were not any disadvantages at all, when there clearly were. I find this continued lying and mischaracterization intolerable. \*\*unvote Septimus vote Plumpudding \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/578 "2015-07-27T01:19:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > :smack: TexCat and I are the Lynch leaders; as you imply one of will be Lynched (or MISLynched) toDay. > Wouldn’t Town’s interests be better served if you study the cases NOW, rather than waiting until _after_ the Lynch/MISLynch? > > _ **I am Town** _. Townies, please help avert my MisLynch. I am not 100% sure TexCat is Scum, but she’s definitely my top candidate. Look at the list of voters and see that TexCat is being voted by the relatively trusted Chronos and Pudding, while my votes come from Bravo (who admits to being on vacation and having little time to study), distrusted and unhelpful Dante G, and (probable Scum) TexCat herself. I believe septimus. No huge reason why, but I do. And if he has me fooled, good for him. I think septimus is Town. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Since I am Town, voting for TexCat, who is suspected by more experienced players than I, seems appropriate at least. Dude, we’re kind of guessing and always are. Your suspicions are as good as ours. Don’t let experienced people guide you in your votes. > [@JSexton](#): > > I think it depends on the player. Prolofic town players need to be prolific when scum, or it’s just instantly obvious when they fail to be prolific or aggressive. Meeko, who can be very prolific, is quieter when scum. I think even prolific people can be found to quiet down or shorten their explanations in order to appear calm and collected. Except peeker, who did whatever no matter what. A truly unreadable player. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/579 "2015-07-27T02:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Jimmy Chitwood** : > > Yeah, uh, the best case scenario is probably to avoid a tie. Unfortunately, I’m not about to help with that. > > unvote Dante G > vote TexCat Unless I miscounted, you did help that. By my count, **septimus** and **TexCat** were tied before your vote, and so you broke the tie. It looks like **TexCat** is currently ahead by 2, with **TexCat** 6, **septimus** 4, and **Dante** and **JSexton** each at 3. ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/580 "2015-07-27T02:11:04Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > They are awfully close. And besides, I don’t find either of our statements scummy. What’s up with that? Yeah, you forgot the entire rest of **Thing Fish** ’s post. > [@TexCat](#): > > Yes, but I was clearly referring to Biotop’s plan, in this response not to you, but to Thing Fish. I was pointing out the disadvantages before Chronos chimed in at all. And here you clearly say that there were not any disadvantages at all, when there clearly were. > > I find this continued lying and mischaracterization intolerable. > > \*\*unvote Septimus > vote Plumpudding > > \*\* You have been arguing about the same “disadvantages” in some kind of way ever since Biotop posted his plan, and you’ve never explained **WHY** you believe that, even after many posters have posted substantial posts arguing why that is not true. To be honest, you still are choosing to not respond to the meat of my posts, continuing to pick pieces here and there. Why would you do that, instead of being forthcoming? I’m not lying, I’m asking you questions you refuse to answer. If you feel it as untolerable, answer my questions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=30)