# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/861 "2015-08-01T18:45:41Z")
Sorry I’ve been absent, this week has been very busy. I"m catching up now, and will post once I’ve finished. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/862 "2015-08-01T20:06:45Z")
**VOTE COUNT: DAY TWO - SATURDAY** 1. **Dante G** (4 votes) - Prof. Pepperwinkle (703), Diggitcamara (764), Thing Fish (808), Cygnus42 (852) 2. **TexCat** (3 votes) - Biotop (701), Nonsuch (741), Plumpudding (746) 3. **Plumpudding** (1 vote) - Dante G (713) 4. **Thing Fish** (1 vote) - Precambrianmollusc (718) 5. **JSexton** (1 vote) - Mahaloth (730) * * * Day Two will end on Monday, August 3, at noon EST (I will not likely be around to end the Day, however, until closer to 2:00PM). I realize that I never posted the resolution to the tiebreaker issue. So, this’ll be it: at any time, the person who should be the tiebreaker according to the rules may PM the moderator to defer the tiebreaker. If this happens, a tie will be resolved by [random.org](http://random.org). There will be no public indication of how a given tie is resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/863 "2015-08-01T20:34:08Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > [center]\*\*[color=greenI realize that I never posted the resolution to the tiebreaker issue. So, this’ll be it: at any time, the person who should be the tiebreaker according to the rules may PM the moderator to defer the tiebreaker. If this happens, a tie will be resolved by [random.org](http://random.org). There will be no public indication of how a given tie is resolved.[/color] Wow. Very interesting approach — still allows players some agency, but the fact that it’s all done in a black box means even more furious speculation if and when a tie finally does occur. Seems almost sadistic when you think about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/864 "2015-08-01T22:11:35Z")
This means the First Mason can break a tie anonymously, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/865 "2015-08-01T23:15:36Z")
As I understand it, unless the First Mason PMed **storyteller** otherwise, his would be the tie-breaking vote. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/866 "2015-08-02T01:11:26Z")
So, let’s say there’s a tie. The First Mason’s vote breaks the tie UNLESS he PM’s storyteller and says not to, in which case the Alpha Wolf’s vote breaks the tie. The First Mason would then know within a certain range of voters that one of them is the Alpha Wolf. Is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/867 "2015-08-02T01:25:08Z")
No. The tie would be resolved randomly. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/868 "2015-08-02T01:27:57Z")
Oh, right. Thanks, I missed that. So, there’s no way to tell whether or not the First Mason broke the tie or not, which keeps him safer. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/869 "2015-08-02T03:05:09Z")
> [@Dante\_G](#): > > Wow, so some of you seem to think I may be scum because I voted for **Septimus** and because of my at times non-sensical posts. Fair enough, your deductions are not unfounded. I did vote for **Septimus** , true. I was really only going off of rereading posts from others that had done way better research than myself. Sorry if that makes me seem like a weak player, but unfortunately I am a little out of practice. I don’t particularly care if you like that excuse or not, as I have used it many times already, but its true. Besides, I never claimed that I was a great mafia phenom - I simply said I played and moderated many games, so I know how to play, but I’m not an expert like some of you guys portray yourselves to be. > > I am not going to ramble on with any more excuses and craziness that could make me look worse. You wanna vote for me, roll the dice and take your chances. Hate this whole post, but especially the end. Voting for you should not be rolling the dice, at least not from your perspective! You’re either town or you’re scum. **Vote Dante G** ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/870 "2015-08-02T03:12:54Z")
We can not learn anything\* for sure \*from a tie…but we can get …indications. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/871 "2015-08-02T03:17:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Hate this whole post, but especially the end. Voting for you should not be rolling the dice, at least not from your perspective! You’re either town or you’re scum. > > **Vote Dante G** **Dante G.** doesn’t seem to know which side he is on. Why would any townsperson tell us to “roll the dice”? I will not shed a tear if he is lynched this day. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/872 "2015-08-02T12:21:10Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > We can not learn anything\* for sure \*from a tie…but we can get …indications. Hmmm… Sort of. I mean, we would already know if the first mason is dead or not in advance, so we would know for sure who the first mason suspected as scum. And I guess we would know who another remaining mason isn’t, but we wouldn’t get much info. since the first mason is almost as blind as all of us in terms of who scum is. Still, better the first mason picking than a scum. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/873 "2015-08-02T13:52:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Hate this whole post, but especially the end. Voting for you should not be rolling the dice, at least not from your perspective! You’re either town or you’re scum. > > **Vote Dante G** Why do you hate it. I was simply being honest in explaining why I have been voting the way I have as wwell as honest about my playing style. What is there to hate. Yes, you are taking your chances. With any lynch this early on, we as town take our chances. We take a chance in losing town or killing Scum. So sure I was stating the obvious a bit when I paraphrased Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men, but it seems like there is no reason to come down on me for honesty. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/874 "2015-08-02T15:06:15Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sort of. I mean, we would already know if the first mason is dead or not in advance, so we would know for sure who the first mason suspected as scum. And I guess we would know who another remaining mason isn’t, but we wouldn’t get much info. ## We wouldn’t know either of these things for sure. We will never have any reason to know whether the tie was resolved randomly unless the person with tiebreaking authority tells us. So.what I’m wondering at the moment is whether we need to know whether **TexCat** is Town before it makes sense to try to unpack what we have on our hands, or whether we can get to the same place from other directions. The very end of day brouhaha, even from my privileged position of knowing that I, one of the key late Day movers who ended up shifting away from **TexCat** , am Town, is pretty inscrutable. So, cribbing from **Thing Fish** ’ summary from above, I’m trying to imagine different scenarios from this point until the fiasco at the end: > [@](#): > > JSexton 4 (Mahaloth, Cygnus42, Bayard, Pepperwinkle) > TexCat 4 (Chronos, Plumpudding, sangfroid, septimus) > Septimus 2 (JBravo, TexCat) > Dante G 2 (Chitwood, Biotop) > Chronos 1 (JSexton) > Sario 1 (me) > Sangfroid 1 (PCM) > > Then, suddenly septimus gets three more votes, from Diggit, Sario, and Dante G. One obvious thing is that **JSexton** is tied for the lead here, and the danger to him just drains right away from here on out. If **TexCat** is Town, then there’s one person who benefits from what followed. If **TexCat** is Scum, then obviously **TexCat** benefited, and that’s a more straightforward thing to think about from there. **Dante G** , I continue to have no idea what he’s doing and he doesn’t seem interested in explaining. **Prof. Pepperwinkle** has explained what he’s doing, which I guess is accurately summarized as crowdsourcing, which isn’t a great program. Votes on either of those are/would be totally justified, in my opinion. **Plumpudding** has been discussed plenty, and I think I get the **JSexton** vote, too. The problem, as I see it, is that a lot of these cases depend on clumsiness or hamhandedness or weirdness. I’m not sure that we’re making a good ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/875 "2015-08-02T15:13:44Z")
whoops. Submitted in the middle of that post. Finishing up quickly - my concern is that I don’t know that lynching **Dante** right now is going to place us on a good footing for what comes next. It’s not clear to me that it would really be super informative as to any other players. On the flipside, going a different way now could shed some light on a lot of things, **Dante** ’s allegiances included, and if he’s scum he’s not going anywhere. It seems to me that based on the way the last Day ended, there’s no way around the fact that we need to know what’s up with **TexCat** and thus the **TexCat** / **septimus** thing. If anyone’s keeping track, I believe this means I was against this, before I was for it, before I was against it again, but now I’m for it: **Vote TexCat** ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/876 "2015-08-02T15:37:29Z")
Okay, gang. I’m going out of town tomorrow on business and will be back on Thursday. This is important because it means I’ll most likely be on the road for EoD (depends on when my check-in time for the hotel is). I’d like to get my final vote in before that happens. I know the record is out there, but we’re coming up on a thousand posts and I was really focused on septimus at yesterday’s EoD. Could somebody summarize the case on **Texcat** for me? **Jimmy Chitwood’s** point about a **Dante** lynch not giving us much extra data is well taken. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/877 "2015-08-02T16:03:37Z")
**vote Sangfroid** Sangfroid has posted very few opinions about anything, in spite of my asking a few times. He looks too much like scared scum trying to lie low. The complete wall: His posts: [91](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18527932#post18527932) Confirming PM [146](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18529431#post18529431) States the obvious: “Vote switching can be perilous sometimes.”, agrees that a mason for a wolf is a good trade. [171](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18531327&postcount=171) Weekends are slow. [223](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18533792&postcount=223) Reacts, or more precisely, doesn’t react to a vote from Dante. Does say “Pretty quick defense and an abstain from Nonsuch, though.” [253](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18534966&postcount=253) Backs off any opinion on Nonsuch. More statements of the obvious: “Tough call, first day. Gotta lynch somebody” [310](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18537097&postcount=310) “Just checking in before dinner; got a question to post a little later about the game mechanics here.” I never did see this question, although I did ask about it in [452](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18544623&postcount=452) [388](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18540644&postcount=388) “I tend not to post much until I have something of value to add” “Still not quite ready to call out anyone as Scum, but parts of the conversation sure sound like a wolf-fight to me” Septimus asks about “wolf-fight” in [391](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18541155&postcount=391) > [@sangfroid](#): > > I’m willing to self-vote, though I agree that the method is a bit unorthodox. It is what we have to work with however, and our host has quite explicitly restated that the rules will stand as written. > > No issue by me. > I do prefer to observe a bit more before voting though, as we still have ample time left. > > The search for the real truth takes more than just one Day, and over-eager lynching most often takes out a fellow Townie and sometimes a power role in the first round. Not good, but the information gathered certainly can be. > > That said, the two others who’ve dropped my name, **Dante G** and **Precambrianmollusc** have done so under the guises of “just because”, and that I suspect a diversionary wolf fight (which I do), respectively. I’ve yet to actually name any names myself. > > Somebody here could use the spotlight treatment, but it isn’t me. This is the post that first raised my suspicions. It appears that Sangfroid might have suspects, but is unwilling to name them? What good does that do town? Why is Sangfroid so reluctant to share with town? [473](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18546307&postcount=473) “Need to reread a bit more and assess.” > [@sangfroid](#): > > Ok, so now a couple of random votes/questions have drifted my way for no real reason whatsoever. > Wolf darts? > I have questions about all of them that only the Night will resolve, but I’m going with the most recent for now. > > vote TexCat > I will be away all day today at my kids’ track meet so I will check in tonight EST. I usually prefer to watch all the last-minute stuff up close, but I gotta run. Can anyone detect a reason for this vote? [538](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18548983&postcount=538) “Based on my own readings and interpretations, as well as those of others here that are a lot more experienced on this board than I, my vote stands.” Hmmkay. Although we still have no clue what those readings and interpretations are? [543](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18549036&postcount=543) OOG [560](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18549957&postcount=560) Seconds request for vote count. [667](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18553226&postcount=667)"D’OH!" [684](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18555593&postcount=684) [685](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18555645&postcount=685) Night fluff. [732](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18559716&postcount=732) Says he was following Chronos’ vote for me. Talks about the crafty wolves relishing their victory. My comments in [794](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18562586&postcount=794) [739](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18560015&postcount=739) Disagrees with Biotop that the wolves were just lucky. “I am taking a very close look at those who put a whole lot of effort into adding to that big 'ol pile of churn” [856](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18565636&postcount=856) OOG followed by “I have more to sort through. I will try to engage more, and ask questions of those I have questions about.” ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/878 "2015-08-02T19:27:10Z")
That’s an interesting post from TexCat. It shows genuine work. More importantly, though, I would expect scum to push for the other vote leader (Dante g) or at the very least another player under suspicion (me or plum pudding). Which makes the likelier cases for TexCat either town, or Co scum with danteg. Which in either case makes me want to vote Dante G. His continued ambivalence about his own alignment is very unusual. Clearly the play style on his usual board is very different. I knew one group who considered lying in mafia to be borderline cheating, and thus it was common for everyone to waffle when asked their alignment. I wonder if that’s what’s going on here? Dante G, what is your alignment? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/879 "2015-08-02T19:59:01Z")
> [@Cygnus42](#): > > Thing Fish seems likely town to me - good analysis of the first day. I’m not sure how \*\*Texcat \*\*and I got tied together in his book. I said back in Day 1 that I didn’t get a scum sense from her - which is still the case. So, I know I’m Town, and would say she’s likely town, so I can’t really argue. Unless she gets lynched, and turns up wolfy - then I’d have to argue. 😕 With five minutes to go, you changed your vote to break a tie between **TexCat** and someone we now know to be Town. Do I really need to draw you a picture of why this is going to look very bad for you if **TexCat** turns up scum? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/880 "2015-08-02T20:07:10Z")
**sangfroid** , the good news is that I thought your OOG content on post 856 seemed very heartfelt and sincere. I can certainly remember asking “WTF did I get myself into??” in my first game here. The bad news is that the sincere part sounded like it was written by a completely different person than the one who has been writing all your posts, which all seem to follow the same basic three-part structure as this one: **Paranoid Defensiveness** > [@](#): > > All that said, I do have serious reservations about those who have darted me so far, starting with Dante G. > > My vote will likely fall to one of them soon enough. If you’re wanting to vote for someone who thinks you’re acting scummy, please feel free to vote for me. **Vague, unsubstantiated “suspicions” which don’t name names.** > [@](#): > > Day One always sucks for Town - we know nothing and can be easily goaded into cannibalizing each other. Others have mentioned that the black hats like to lay low early, but as much as I understand that thought process, as well as having seen that behavior before, I do not believe it to be the case here. > > I am trying, best as I can, to figure out just who the wolves have set up as their sacrificial lamb in the Town conversation, because I really believe there is one. By that I mean one of the more vocal players. > > Hey, maybe I am flying way out in the breeze here - this is very new to me, on this board - but I remain skeptical that only Townies were posting the bulk of substance on Day One. > > We’ll see. **Empty Promise to return soon with real analysis** > [@](#): > > I have more to sort through. I will try to engage more, and ask questions of those I have questions about. That is starting to sound very, very familiar. If you’re Town, please start playing the game or you’re going to get lynched. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=45)