# MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099 "2015-07-14T00:45:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1661 "2015-09-10T12:06:33Z")
And now we are five, but at least it’s four-to-one. ---
**Author:** ![Cygnus42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Cygnus42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cygnus42)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1662 "2015-09-10T12:41:43Z")
Alas, poor Jimmy - I think continuing the tradition of killing the most helpful / vocal. I’ll be back a bit later, to start posting thoughts on who our remaining wolf is. Am I correct in thinking that since it’s 4-1 town now, we have two shots at it? If we guess wrong this Day, we’ll have one more Day at 2-1 - right? Looking way back at the rules on the first page, it looks like Town would have to mis-lynch twice to lose. So, despite the rough start to this game, I like our chances now… ---
**Author:** ![sangfroid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@sangfroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sangfroid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1663 "2015-09-10T12:50:02Z")
Checking in. Sorry to lose you, **Jimmy**. I thought for sure the **Prof** was the top pick. Now rechecking the interactions of the last of us. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1664 "2015-09-10T12:55:49Z")
Actually I was hoping it would be me instead of Jimmy. He’s better at detailed analysis and has the experience (which is why I thought he’d be picked). ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1665 "2015-09-10T13:18:00Z")
Huh. Didn’t expect that. Finish the job, Town! ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1666 "2015-09-10T13:56:32Z")
From my own opinions on who is who, and why JC got knocked off JC and Cygnus were the last remaining likely town, Sangfroid and Prof P slightly less likely town leaving Nonsuch and myself in the possible pool. Both Cygnus and Prof P had said they were probably going to vote for me today, so our wolf would most likely want to leave those alone as they said they were planning on voting for town (me), leaving JC as the likely night kill. Of course , not much can be read into speculations as to if the wolf reacted to ProfP or Cygnus intentions. The wolf could have just as easily killed one of them to smudge me. Still in the interim vote Nonsuch Last of the likely wolves pool also back in post 1320 I made this comment "Interestingly nonsuch is voicing suspicion at me, but not voting, for reasons that JB had a much longer interaction with TF over, yet has JB at the bottom of their list of scum. " If we remember the JB/TF interactions it was over thingfish saying they were voting to protect septimus. I had some suspicion ( hell I think I voted for TF then) but JB carried on the poking , Nonsuch attacked me for my bad logic, yet gives a pass to JB and has them at the bottom of likely wolf list Also in post 510 we have JSexton urging Nonsuch to get a vote out – experienced wolf helping the junior wolf? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1667 "2015-09-10T14:02:53Z")
Yes, it does seem most likely to be either **PMC** or **Nonsuch**. I’m going back over the last Week looking for evidence on either side. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1668 "2015-09-10T14:08:50Z")
Damn. So long, **Jimmy**. OK folks, one more wolf to go. Let’s make the world safe for innocent Ceciltownies! **vote Precambrianmollusc** ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1669 "2015-09-10T14:26:11Z")
PMC, note that Jimmy Chitwood also said he would vote to lynch you toDay. That doesn’t agree with your supposition that that’s why he was lynched, but it seems to me to be that your most recent argument is just the kind of slight distortion that a Wolf would do. You’re still at the top of the lynch list. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1670 "2015-09-10T14:34:17Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > PMC, note that Jimmy Chitwood also said he would vote to lynch you toDay. That doesn’t agree with your supposition that that’s why he was lynched, but it seems to me to be that your most recent argument is just the kind of slight distortion that a Wolf would do. You’re still at the top of the lynch list. post 1622 and 1623 right after final vote and just before the day ended were You and Cygnus ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1671 "2015-09-10T15:40:03Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > It does kinda look like that, from where I’m sitting. > > I haven’t reread on him yet. I have thought up to this point that there were better places to look than at him, because my sense has been the things he’s been taken to task for have seemed more like sort of careless Town commentary than the kind of purposeful misleading that a wolf would want to try. \*\*But having read through on **Nonsuch** and seeing the interactions there, and seeing **Johnny** ’s response, I’m reading the tea leaves the way you just described - **Johnny** saw the possibility of **PCM** getting some static and tried to inject some uncertainty. As of right this second, that’s where I’d vote next, assuming that **Johnny** flips wolf, which I’m confident in. > \*\* > I’ll try to look at it in more detail if I can. With that said, I don’t think I’m the player the furthest above suspicion at this point; my record of actually killing wolves is not as good as yours or **Cygnus** ’. At least, if I were a wolf, I’d think I had a better chance of getting a Town player to lynch me than to lynch one of you two in the endgame. Guess we’ll see! Post 1612. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1672 "2015-09-10T15:47:26Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Since the game started, I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet with all players’ names across the top and down the side. Sort of an X-Y axis like those mileage grids you used to see in road atlases. Where players intersect, I colored the squares red or green to show if they voiced support or suspicion of each other. So, it’s pretty crude and only shows current state, not change over time. But it helps me visualize the relationships. It’s sort of a “heat map”. > > Anyway, I figure the wolves most likely won’t talk to or about each other all that much if they can avoid it. If I were a wolf I’d probably try to have the blandest interaction possible with my fellow wolves. (Of course I’m just guessing – I really don’t know how I’d play that side.) Anyway, I looked on my grid for the players that **JSexton** didn’t express much opinion on, and who in return didn’t express much opinion on him. The players who pretty much left each other alone. > > I’m not saying this is really strong proof of wolfitude, but it may be something. And I’m sure my scorekeeping is off. I’m sure I missed some posts and mischaracterized others. But as far as I can tell, the players **JSexton** said very little about, and who said little about him in return are: > > **DiggitCamara > Johnny Bravo > Precambrianmollusc > Sario > Texcat** > > Those five and **JSexton** make 6, so they can’t all be wolves. And I still don’t think **TexCat** is the Alpha. So, to my mind that leaves **DiggitCamara, Johnny Bravo, Precambrianmollusc, and Sario** as players we might want to take a good look at. > > I note that **Precambrianmollusc** has cast doubt on my role claim and has not yet voted for **JSexton**. **Precambrianmollusc** , whose side are you one? Going back over the board, I find Bayard’s post 1009. With the exception of TexCat and Precambrianmollusc, all his other suspects turned up town. I’m guessing some of the more experienced players would have picked up on this if they hadn’t died first. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1673 "2015-09-10T16:20:23Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Going back over the board, I find Bayard’s post 1009. With the exception of TexCat and Precambrianmollusc, all his other suspects turned up\*\* town\*\*. I’m guessing some of the more experienced players would have picked up on this if they hadn’t died first. DG JB and Sario were wolf not town , or am I parsing your comment badly? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1674 "2015-09-10T16:28:39Z")
Gack! Yes, Wolf, not town. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1675 "2015-09-10T19:13:53Z")
So my read on nonesuch, I ended up including some of my interactions with NS and confirmed wolves NS input gets pretty thin on the ground, but they did say they had some real life issues, for which I can sympathize, certainly not going to accuse NS of being a lurking wolf. In summary , still there on the wolf reading , Nonsuch had a similar line of attack on me as , “it looks scummy” 119 strategy on tied votes confusing 139 I say in response to NS the tie mechanism is worth discussing and waffle on 149 responds and says the are new to the game and didn’t think there was a moneyball approach. Agrees with Jsexton saysing hsouldnt look for rule exploits 152 Chronis responds to moneyball 155 plum responds to moneyball comment 167 Jsexton see through me Precambrianmollusc contains S-C-U-M! He also contains M-I-L-L-E-R, though, so that’s probably just a false positive. Maybe his M-A-S-O-N buddy can confirm that for us. Yikes, he’s also the D-O-C and the C-O-P! This role is ridiculously overpowered. 178 Says to Chronos lynch the lurker is not bad for town even if the lurker is town 182 It is hot in portland 186 DC agrees with Jsex that perfect info is a give away, FWIW I pointed this out as well 201 Diggit C goes in with This is one of the scummiest posts I have ever seen (TIOOTSPIHES) 205 Fluff on the tipping hand riffs being made 213 Fluff on what recipies the scum are exchanging 219 Says DanteG breaks out the pack as leader, but post His post was such a tell that I can’t help thinking he’s probably town —if scum gave themselves away that quick, this game would be pretty short. 228 Comments that engineering a tie is like hearding cats - I agree 253 Sangfroid commenst on Nonsuch 267 Nonsuch questions Plumpuddings vote or not vote on me 272 Jsexton comemnst of Plumpuds mangled thinking 282 Nonsuch beffuddle by plum, I cant disagree, doenst think the engineering a tie will work 287 continues 292 reads Jsextons case on Chronos, thinsk too complex? Doesn’t vote chronos but says chronos is a super play and could be pulling a jedi mind trick 347 deosnt want to play the game chronso and biotop explained - I agree 417 agrees with malhoth on the game mechanics - not liking the plan 470 explains been quiet, says will vote later 510 Jesexton to nonsuch I’m never a fan of posts that only apologize for not posting. We’re approaching end of day, and I don’t recall anything of substance from you. Why do you think is town? who do you think is scum? 565 long post Trusts Bio and Chronos, stinkeye on Plum, Septimus, DanteG and Jsexton, votes DanteG because it’s a bandwaggon 575 Clarifies post numbers in case/ssupicion of PlumP Day 2 740 interesting bit half way down - in 575 NS says Danteg had a bandwaggon, yet in 740 says they were voting for who they thought was most scummy. Inconsistant 741 gets on the Texcat lynch thing 743-744 back and forth with Bio 751 Repsonds to my question of Malahoth vote for Jsecton saying they were suspicious of jSexton 752 Jsexton thinsg Sangfroids post smacks of perfect information 780 Thingfish agrees with nonsuch (nonsuch thinks plum not that scummy) 784 wants to circle back to my post on Thingfish protecting Septimus, says my attemt to cast suspicuon seams forced 786 I expalain “his statement of protecting Septimus really jumped out to me as smacking of too much knowledge and retroactively applying reasoning for his vote” 790 Thinks I am undercutting ThingFish 793 Jsexton takes issue with my logic 807 I clarify again what I found odd about TFs comment 810 NS clairfies voting for Texcat because wolves were saving Texcat in the septimus clusterfuck 812 asks for TF clairfication 863 discussion of new tiebreak 866 discussion of new tiebreak 900 continues with Texcat being saved case, mentiosn itmay be due to saving Jsexton, but why not texcat 918 supplies vote count 920 I vote sangfroid 922 Says dante has checked out 925 corrects vote count Day 3 980 says makes sense for wolves to kill experienced players 1001 My post suggesting we examin the claim more closely and float the idea of keeping Jsexton in the bag to keep conversation going today and if bayard tuned up dead we would know he was the seer, highlight downside that it leaves Jsexton alive 1010 A wolf (DC) thinks it is a scummy idea and continues for several posts 1015 Jsexton calls an end to discussion 1022 discusses case on texcat 1029 responing to ProfP on tie break 1033 I discuss my skepticism that TEXcat is the alpha, state id vote for Diggit tomorrow Day 4 1110 Corrects Storey on the day number 1117 Agrees with TF case on Plum, hedges with “I think he was town” 1120 My brilliant spotted flaw that Plum had cut and pasted his roled claim from Storeys role claim - except it wasn’t 1129 DC votes for me for one of the scummiest ideas ever 1131 Some support for me from TF 1132 And from JC who then folows up with a vote on DC 1139 Cygnus also disagrees with DC 1159 Biotops run down on me 1160 nonsuch brings up my comment of TF defending septimus, continues with the case 1172 votes for me beacause, SCUMDAR! Or maybe just to see if I get any more traction (already have one from DC) 1176 Thanks biotp 1185 Prof P looks at my posts 1208 Teccat has a vote count 3 or sario (Prof, bio and cyg) 2 on me (DC and NS) two on plum (TF JB) 1217 I vote DC along with JC 1220 I stay on DC and not move to sario as I think DC more likely wolf 1253 Day end with sario lynched. God knows what wolves were up to 1281 Dawn day 5 1284 I continue case against DC 1285 Wolf JB joins me 1294 I Highlight Plu, DC, NS AND JB are the best pool to go hunting in 1312 NonSuch posts!leaning twon on TF Bio, ProfP and Cygnus, the rest of us leaning scum also back on my case has JB twoards bottom of tehir list of possible scum 1322 my post analysis of JB and JC 1327-1330 me and bio back and forth on questioning bayard and leaving a wolf alive 1386 NS votes Plum, says DC botes make sense 1410 we are 4 and 4 on DC and Plum 1444 ends with Plum being lynched 1468 Start of day 6 1473 I vote DC, I have little imagination 1479 So does JB 1479 DC votes JB 1480 Nonsuch says will vote DC or me 1494 I post NS JC DC as likely wolves - admittedly though elimination rather than dedcution 1503 Nonsuch says they will reread the game 1555 nonsuch votes for a tie between DC and JB , two wolves, votes DC 1588 Dawn day 7 1605 JC reread on nonsuch 1608 JB votes for me ( he has 3 votes on him) 1616 NS votes for me 1628 JB Lynched 1659 And here we are ---
**Author:** ![Cygnus42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Cygnus42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cygnus42)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1676 "2015-09-10T20:48:30Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Going back over the board, I find Bayard’s post 1009. With the exception of TexCat and Precambrianmollusc, all his other suspects turned up town. I’m guessing some of the more experienced players would have picked up on this if they hadn’t died first. I referenced that \*\*Bayard \*\*post a little while back too. Almost prescient, very Seer-like. I still am leaning to PCM as that final wolf, but I want to investigate a bit more. If he is the wolf, he’s been doing a good job of setting himself up to look somewhat less guilty. He has a couple posts I’ve seen so far, such as #1494: > [@](#): > > The last part about the certainty of the 3 Sario voters being town is certainly hazardous , and sangfroid is not confirmed , lots to puzzle there, but I think that hunting in the nonsuch , digggit and Johnny b pool is going to produce some results and maybe clarify some of the interactions. Pointing to two fellow wolves (now confirmed) would be a bold move, but maybe just what is needed to try to deflect suspicion. Those names weren’t completely out-of-the-blue, though - both Diggit and JB were gaining in suspicion by that point. My earlier read through from the beginning gave me a town lean on Nonsuch. I think it’d take something pretty significant to overcome that for this Day. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1677 "2015-09-11T13:01:43Z")
I’ll be posting more rationale for this vote later this weekend, but for now: **Vote Precambrianmollusc.** Nonsuch’s biggest scum tells appear to me to be some serious lurking and late votes. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1678 "2015-09-11T14:58:06Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I’ll be posting more rationale for this vote later this weekend, but for now: > > **Vote Precambrianmollusc.** > > Nonsuch’s biggest scum tells appear to me to be some serious lurking and late votes. And voting for me for the same opportunistic reasons as Diggit Camera ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1679 "2015-09-11T15:06:30Z")
Also , JSexton was specific in urging Nonsuch to get a vote out, why would scum urge a town to get a vote out, non-voting townies are often more likely to get lynched for lurking, to me this is a clear message to nonesuch to get a vote on record to avoid suspicion. Looking back at Nonsuch, they were also very careful, the posts, in a similar vein to Diggit C , were mostly on game mechanics type things, stuff that people often agree with, but not controversial. When it came to actual accusations and case building, it was often using someone else’s case, or carefully phrased " I think X is scummy, but maybe not" One further point to reiterate, Nonsuch had me fingered as scum because of my questioning of Thingfish over the "I protected Septimus " statement. Johnny B (Of the lupine persuasion) also had a long exchange with ThingFish over that same thing, yet Nonsuch didn’t say a word, and put Johnny B very low on their list of possible scum. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1680 "2015-09-12T03:00:40Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > One further point to reiterate, Nonsuch had me fingered as scum because of my questioning of Thingfish over the "I protected Septimus " statement. Johnny B (Of the lupine persuasion) also had a long exchange with ThingFish over that same thing, yet Nonsuch didn’t say a word, and put Johnny B very low on their list of possible scum. Um, yeah, **Bravo** did have a “long exchange” with **Thing Fish** over the [“Anatomy of a Massive Clusterfuck” post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18558712&postcount=715), because **Thing Fish** (more or less) accused him of making a scummy vote. What would you expect? Any player, Town or Wolf, would have stepped up to justify their vote, and so I found nothing especially shifty about it. But he did NOT immediately denounce **Thing Fish** as scum. The exchange fizzled out to little effect, and **Bravo** ended up claiming to [find nothing suspicious](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18565466&postcount=853) in **Thing Fish’s** argument. Obviously, **Bravo’s** protestations and subsequent vote (for **Dante G** , same as **Thing Fish’s** ) seem like a wolf tell in retrospect — but they certainly didn’t at the time, since no one voted him or even really remarked on it. You, on the other hand, were the one who immediately [voted Thing Fish](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18558832&postcount=718) based on an extremely spurious conclusion that **Thing Fish** was betraying perfect knowledge of **Septimus** ’ townhood in his Day 1 vote, when he was doing no such thing. You subsequently changed your vote, either because you came to your senses or you realized you’d failed to start a bandwagon against **Thing Fish**. * * * OK, heading out for the evening. More later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=83) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099.md?page=85)