# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2141 "2007-06-03T19:47:37Z")
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch] (snip) 1. As many pixels as she pretends to devote to accusing Diggit, she never makes a case against him or votes him – just a lot of hot air. Why would she make a case against a fellow mafia? She keeps harping on how I’m banding together with Diggit, when there’s no evidence of this whatsoever. (snip) [/QUOTE] I simply couldn’t resist. Dude: implicitly you’re saying I’m scum. But you’re saying at the same time “Why would she make a case against a fellow mafia?” If she is scum and I am scum, you might have a point when looking from her to me (and, actually, I have made that point too). But are you seriously saying I am neither voting nor making a case against her? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2142 "2007-06-03T20:02:55Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] In my scenario, the first no-kill night (the third night, if I remember correctly) would have been against **tirial**. After that she would have been recruited (because she revealed her status during the fourth day). [/QUOTE] My status as doctor wasn’t confirmed until Lightnin’ died. Otherwise as Blastermaster thought, there was a good chance I was a Dogooder. Lightnin’ died a few nights after that: Day 3 Projammer lynched night 3 no kill Day 4 My strategy post + fluiddruid lynched night 4 no kill Day 5 Lightnin lynched. night 5 no kill If there was a recruit, Day 5 would have been the obvious time as the mafia then know there are no Dogooders left. I still don’t think there was one. I think the mafia were presented with a choice of two targets they had been blocked from and two possible people who had blocked them. I suspect they went for a confirmation kill, as they could not know which was the Doctor and which was the diversion. Looking at the current votes, I will probably stay with my vote for **Rachm Qoch** as we can’t really split the town vote down and win. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2143 "2007-06-03T20:04:39Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] If, by some chance, it looks like a bandwagon forms toward **Blaster** , then I’d be fine with switching. **Blaster** and **Rachm** are both scum, and it doesn’t matter to me which order they get taken out. We have less than 90 minutes until sunset, however. If things stay as they are, **Blaster** will certainly be voting for **tirial** to tie up the vote and try to save **Rachm** neck (or would be sacrifice fellow scum, maybe?), so there will be quite a bit riding on your vote, **Millet**. I don’t envy you. [/QUOTE] I’m going to try to pull this thing off. Vote Blaster Master. Hal? Nesta? You with me? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2144 "2007-06-03T20:05:47Z")
To remaining townies ask yourself this: If the doctor was recruited why was **Lemur866** making such a strong case to lynch the doctor if the doctor was recruited? Lemur866 wasn’t lynched until DAY 6. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2145 "2007-06-03T20:08:31Z")
Let me restarted that in English? If the doctor was recruited why was Lemur866 making such a strong case to lynch the doctor if the doctor roleclaimed? On Day 6 after the last possible recruit. Millet, sorry I can’t make half the case against Blastermaster I can against Rachm. He’s third on my scum list, but atm I’m not switching. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2146 "2007-06-03T20:09:20Z")
Well, **Millit** now gets a fat FOS and a place in my scum line, right behind Rachm and Diggit. For those of us who think Rachm and Diggit are scum, we really need to pick one and throw all of our votes behind one of them. Hal: you’d be willing to switch votes to **Blaster** but not to **Diggit**? If you are firm about that, then I think our **Rachm** votes should stay where they are, and we need to get nesta to switch his vote from **Diggit** to **Rachm**. And lastly, any and all noise about me needs to be seen by any other town left for what it is as soon as possible: maniplative, scummy, paranoia-inspiring noise. **I. am. town.** ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2147 "2007-06-03T20:10:46Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] I simply couldn’t resist. Dude: implicitly you’re saying I’m scum. But you’re saying at the same time “Why would she make a case against a fellow mafia?” If she is scum and I am scum, you might have a point when looking from her to me (and, actually, I have made that point too). But are you seriously saying I am neither voting nor making a case against her? [/QUOTE] When I posted I saw that the vote was 3-Rachm, 2-tirial, with nobody other than me and you voting for her. A single scum voting for her in those circumstances would be very safe. But, yeah, you’re right. Looking back, at the moment you voted tirial the vote was tied and you put her in the lead. That would be very ballsy indeed. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2148 "2007-06-03T20:15:03Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] Let me restarted that in English? If the doctor was recruited why was Lemur866 making such a strong case to lynch the doctor if the doctor roleclaimed? (snip) [/QUOTE] … you are asking us to use scum as a source? Seriously? After **SnakesCatLady**? I’m going to answer the same thing I answered then: reverse psychology. And the DoGooder scenario would only have worked if: 1. Doctor gets blocked 2. DoGooder screams “here, here, I’m the Doctor” 3. Scum buy his idea However, that’s really unlikely. First: 1. The DoGooder must know the Doctor blocked him on that night 2. Scum must attack the DoGooder that night (for one reason or another) And at that point there is NO WAY any of that information had been exchanged under the noses of the scum. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2149 "2007-06-03T20:17:49Z")
But, my ideas are gaining me no support. So: unvote **tirial** vote **BlasterMaster** (Like I said before: I am willing to switch my vote to someone whom I can support. And **BlasterMaster** ’s vote switch on day 3 contributed largely to save **fluiddruid** at that time) ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2150 "2007-06-03T20:30:24Z")
[Game off] Apologies, I’ve been having internet trouble, this is the first I’ve been able to get on since Friday.[/game on] [QUOTE=Millit the Frail] **Blaster** : Same thing as before. I posted a lot of details on his role in Projammer’s lynch/fluid’s save, and it gets worse and worse going back. For example, he worries about a Mason victory early on and starts talking about killing Masons. WTF? And later, he keeps pushing for the breadcrumb to be Projammer, specifically. [/QUOTE] 😕 You need to double check your facts, because that is all patently untrue. One, I was not the one concerned with the Mason discussion earlier I was, however, contributing my thoughts to it. Second, I never pushed that **Projammer** was the breadcrumb, I thought, and still think that dnooman was the crumb. Does it matter? Not particularly, since everyone it could have been (other than me) is dead. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2151 "2007-06-03T20:34:43Z")
Welll, yeah Diggit its hard to overlook a scum who’s not high on the radar or in danger of lynch at the time he posted pushing this hard for a doctor lynch if the doctor roleclaims: P1626 - Diggit posts about the recruitment possibility P1628 - Lemur866 argues doc must be lynched. P1649 - Lemur866 > [@](#): > > The only take away from this is that anyone who role-claims doctor is gonna get a big old {} from me. It’s possible the doctor wasn’t recruited, it’s possible no one was recruited, but that’s the way I’d play the odds. P1655 - Lemur 866 > [@](#): > > But basically my analysis of the situation would make me MORE likely to vote for someone who made an unchallenged doctor role-claim, whereas before I’d have to take it under consideration. P1656 Diggit > [@](#): > > 1. Our (Idle-Diggit-tirial) exchange pretty much told them we’d lynch the doctor as soon as (s)he is forced to roleclaim First: which Diggit- tirial-Idle exchange? and second: somehow I don’t think I would ever vote to lynch the doctor if the doctor roleclaimed, strangely… Please explain why scum would push that hard to get me lynched if I roleclaimed, if I were recruited? SCL was lynched because Idle Thoughts didn’t like the fact she’d voted against them consistantly. I’m pointing out that the scum worked pretty hard to get me lynched if I ever roleclaimed - AFTER the last possible night recruitment, and by scum that weren’t in immediate danger of lynching. Thanks for the vote switch Diggit - you are actually making Blastermaster drop down my scum list, you know. And your scenario in your post doesn’t hold. Reread my strategy post from the time, reread Blastermaster’s post where he says he thought I was the Dogooder until Lightnin got lynched, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2152 "2007-06-03T20:39:23Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] But, my ideas are gaining me no support. So: unvote **tirial** vote **BlasterMaster** (Like I said before: I am willing to switch my vote to someone whom I can support. And **BlasterMaster** ’s vote switch on day 3 contributed largely to save **fluiddruid** at that time) [/QUOTE] This is _really_ the most damning evidence against me? Does no-one pay attention to reasons behind voting. Besides, if I was trying to save **fluiddruid** , why was I one of the first to jump on lynching her the next day? Surely, if we’re going to lynch another townie, we can come up with less flimsy reasoning than this. It looks like a last minute attempt to speed lynch me when I’m not able to respond, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it is being pushed by scum. I was pretty sure you were town, **Diggit** , but now… I don’t know. Seriously, I keep seeing “oh, I think he’s scum”, but I haven’t seen any kind of case against me other than that. How am I supposed to defend myself against that? Especially with our doctor’s half claim. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2153 "2007-06-03T20:44:05Z")
I have to give the Mafia players credit, I have no idea what’s going on or who to trust. I think they’ve done a very good job of sowing disinformation. Anyone have an accurate vote count? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2154 "2007-06-03T20:45:09Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] Welll, yeah Diggit its hard to overlook a scum who’s not high on the radar or in danger of lynch at the time he posted pushing this hard for a doctor lynch if the doctor roleclaims: P1626 - Diggit posts about the recruitment possibility P1628 - Lemur866 argues doc must be lynched. P1649 - Lemur866 P1655 - Lemur 866 P1656 Diggit First: which Diggit- tirial-Idle exchange? and second: somehow I don’t think I would ever vote to lynch the doctor if the doctor roleclaimed, strangely… Please explain why scum would push that hard to get me lynched if I roleclaimed, if I were recruited? SCL was lynched because Idle Thoughts didn’t like the fact she’d voted against them consistantly. I’m pointing out that the scum worked pretty hard to get me lynched if I ever roleclaimed - AFTER the last possible night recruitment, and by scum that weren’t in immediate danger of lynching. (snip) And your scenario in your post doesn’t hold. Reread my strategy post from the time, reread Blastermaster’s post where he says he thought I was the Dogooder until Lightnin got lynched, etc. [/QUOTE] Two points: 1. You say SCL was lynched because “ **Idle Thoughts** didn’t like the fact she’d voted against them consistently”. False. SCL’s got into most pools of shame because she was the first in **fluiddruid** ’s defense list. He (and many others) took this to be an important data point. Which I fought against, constantly, consistently, from the first (look at the posts) and which earned me my FOS from **Idle Thoughts** 2. The scenario doesn’t hold? Seriously? C’mon. Look, a DoGooder has no extra information about blocks than anyone else. If a DoGooder claimed, at any time, he was the Doctor and had blocked the previous attack, it would hold no water (in the eyes of scum, at least) because SCUM KNOW whom they attacked. (Unless he guessed correctly). Conversely, when the Doctor claims she has been protected by someone else, scum have a way to know they targetted her and that she had been, indeed, protected. At the time they had been blocked they had no way of knowing who had blocked them (NightWatchMan or Doctor), but when the victim KNOWS she was the target, they have much more certainty as to the role of the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2155 "2007-06-03T20:46:55Z")
So even though I’m convinced **tirial** was recruited, it looks like my only chance at saving someone I KNOW to be town is to agree with her? Why are we paying any heed to her role-claim? It’s not something that hasn’t been patently obvious since about the fourth day, and yet she acts like its some kind of revelation? Even worse, if all she’s been doing is self-protecting, she’s no better than a vanilla citizen, as far as lynching is concerned. Oh my… Well, regardless, as I said, I’m fairly sure that there’s scum between **nesta** and **Rachm** , and I’ve been saying that for a while. But now I don’t have much choice, so vote **Rachm Qoch**. God, I hope you’re right, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t \*\*tirial \*\*setting up a “oh, if she’s scum why would she have pushed that so hard?” if he does come up scum. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2156 "2007-06-03T20:51:26Z")
[QUOTE=nesta] I have to give the Mafia players credit, I have no idea what’s going on or who to trust. I think they’ve done a very good job of sowing disinformation. Anyone have an accurate vote count? [/QUOTE] Working from 2123 - Current 4 – Rachm Qoch (tirial, Hal Briston,ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies,BlasterMaster) 2-- BlasterMaster (Millit, Diggit) 1 – tirial (Rachm Qoch) 1–Diggit(nesta) Unvotes nesta voted Diggit Millit voted BlasterMaster Diggit unvoted tirial, voted BlasterMaster ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2157 "2007-06-03T20:52:07Z")
Working from 2132 - (votes after that time have post number against them.) Current 4 – Rachm Qoch (tirial, Hal Briston,ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 2130, Blastermaster 2155) 1 – tirial (Rachm Qoch,) 1 – Diggit (nesta 2133) 2 – Blastermaster (Millet 2143, Diggit 2149) [Quote=Blastermaster] God, I hope you’re right, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t tirial setting up a “oh, if she’s scum why would she have pushed that so hard?” if he does come up scum [/Quote] And Blastermaster, actually nope - I’m hopefully setting up a “get the other original scum” lynched tomorrow and then if the game goes on we know we had a recruit, or there were more than 4 to start. I expect to be strung up at that point, but I win if the town does, so as long as it gets the scum down to one the rest of you should be able to find them. And even a mason win is better than a scum win. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2158 "2007-06-03T20:53:56Z")
Good grief Diggit we can actually agree on something - even if it is only the vote count. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2159 "2007-06-03T20:55:39Z")
Looks like the vote count is: 4 - Rachm Quoch ( tirial, Hal Briston, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCook, Blaster Master ) 2 - Blaster Master ( Millit the Frail, DiggitCamara ) 1 - tirial ( Rachm Qoch ) 1 - DiggitCamara ( nesta ) Bah. I’m going to leave my vote where it is. I don’t think Rachm is scum, so I feel like the game is pretty much lost. Oh well. There’s still a few minutes for a couple of you to switch over to Diggit with me… ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2160 "2007-06-03T21:00:10Z")
unvote tirial vote blastermaster [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=107) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=109)