# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 111
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2201 "2007-06-05T21:15:33Z")
**Updated Player List** Alive: 1. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 2. Hal Briston 3. nesta 4. tirial 5. Blaster Master 6. Millit the Frail 7. DiggitCamara Dead: 1. percypercy – citizen (lynched, Day One) 2. NAF1138 – citizen (murdered, Night One) 3. dnooman – citizen (lynched, Day Two) 4. Kyrie Eleison – detective (murdered, Night Two) 5. Projammer – do-gooder (lynched, Day Three) 6. fluiddruid – mafia (lynched, Day Four) 7. Lightnin’ – do-gooder (lynched, Day Five) 8. Lemur866 – mafia (lynched, Day Six) 9. CaerieD – citizen (murdered, Night Six) 10. SnakesCatLady – citizen (lynched, Day Seven) 11. zuma – citizen (murdered, Night Seven) 12. Idle Thoughts – night watchman (collateral damage, Night Seven) 13. Rachm Qoch – mafia (lynched, Day Eight) Seven players left; **four votes needed** to lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2202 "2007-06-05T21:19:54Z")
\*It is dawn. You are standing in the Village Green. Six other townspeople are here. You are carrying: Nothing but a profound sense of paranoia Available Exits: North South East West Down\* The day ends at 5:15 p.m. my time on Saturday. There are seven players left, which means that four votes are needed to lynch. (Reposting from the bottom of the previous page) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2203 "2007-06-05T21:21:13Z")
Aaaaand, there’s the recruitment. Unless, of course, that’s what _they_ want us to think. Which would be mean intentionally no-killing last night in an attempt to throw us off, which would be so monumentally stupid that I’m not even going to entertain it. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2204 "2007-06-05T21:23:34Z")
Oh great. If we didn’t have a recruit before we probably do now. There is another option I can think of, but it seems unlikely. Anyway, to follow on from yesterday, my main scum suspect (after Rachm) is still Diggit, but before I continue I did find one question he asked at night a bit odd. [Quote=Diggit] But, did you flip the coin like you should have, Gadarene? [/Quote] I am afraid I don’t get this **Diggit**. The votes were 4 for Rachm, 3 for Blaster (assuming Rachm’s vote made it in under the barrier), 1 for Diggit. That’s not close enough to flip a coin, and why would a townie want the vote to go to a coin flip if you know we scored a mafia anyway? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2205 "2007-06-05T21:24:58Z")
Ok. So can we lynch **Diggit** now? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2206 "2007-06-05T21:26:50Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] Ok. So can we lynch **Diggit** now? [/QUOTE] Thanks, I knew I forgot something. Vote Diggit ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2207 "2007-06-05T21:28:06Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] )snip) I am afraid I don’t get this **Diggit**. The votes were 4 for Rachm, 3 for Blaster (assuming Rachm’s vote made it in under the barrier), 1 for Diggit. That’s not close enough to flip a coin, and why would a townie want the vote to go to a coin flip if you know we scored a mafia anyway? [/QUOTE] My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2208 "2007-06-05T21:28:44Z")
My assumption is that **Diggit** thought it was four votes each for **Rachm** and **Blaster**. I don’t want to speak for him, but if **Diggit** is of the same mind that I am (that **Rachm** and **Diggit** are both scum), then he may have meant it the way I took it – “they were both scum, so the coin flip was going to lead to lynched mafia either way”. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2209 "2007-06-05T21:30:36Z")
Alrighty then. **Vote Diggit**. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2210 "2007-06-05T21:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Aaaaand, there’s the recruitment. Unless, of course, that’s what _they_ want us to think. Which would be mean intentionally no-killing last night in an attempt to throw us off, which would be so monumentally stupid that I’m not even going to entertain it. [/QUOTE] Well, one thing I was thinking about was what a no-kill might mean, since I think we were all pretty much expecting it. The obvious (and probably likely) answer is that it was the recruit. OTOH, it may have been a no-kill intended to instill paranoia that it just happened when it may have happened some time ago. That is, if they had already recruited and killed someone last night, they would still need a minimum of two wrong lynches to win, which is the same as if they no-killed. What does this mean? That I’m less suspicious that\*\* tirial \*\* was recruited, but, knowing that the mafia might have recruited her knowing we’d think she wasn’t recruited. Oh boy, this is gonna be a long Day… ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2211 "2007-06-05T21:35:36Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] Ok. So can we lynch **Diggit** now? [/QUOTE] Sure, assuming either he or you were the one recruited last night. Otherwise, you’re lynching town. Vote **Blaster Master**. And on preview, looks like you’ve already cast your lot. I’d doubt **tirial** was recruited (too obvious), so with you and he voting **Diggit** , I hope it was you that was recruited. Otherwise, there are still two scum who will happily vote to lynch him. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2212 "2007-06-05T21:40:49Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Aaaaand, there’s the recruitment. Unless, of course, that’s what _they_ want us to think. Which would be mean intentionally no-killing last night in an attempt to throw us off, which would be so monumentally stupid that I’m not even going to entertain it. [/QUOTE] … hey, I’m known for my stupid mistakes, so I will entertain it. I was pretty much expecting it. 1. If we started the game with 4 scum and 3 masons (like most if not all people seem to think), by yesterday we had 2 scum and 3 masons (if recruitment already had happened) (1 and 3 if no recruitment had happened) 2. With a night kill (of a citizen, which with no additional knowledge for scum would be around at 40%) we would stand at 2 scum, 3 masons, 1 citizen. (1-3-2 without recruitment) 3. **tirial** would be out of the question as a potential lynch victim. She might or might not be scum. 4. For masons that would mean that they would have a pool of 2 people amongst whom they would have to choose their lynchee (3 votes to lynch in this case). Whether there had been recruitment or not, they could exclude tirial for the time being and leave that question for the next day. In this scenario the masons would have had a pretty good chance to nail scum (50% at least). Right now, the situation is a bit better for scum: 1. 3 masons, 2 scum, 2 citizens 2. **tirial** is “officially” off the hook, because it’s “obvious” recruitment took place during this night. 3. Masons have to choose 2 scum against a pool of 3. Sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? However, if it’s actually 1 scum against a pool of 3 (nobody’ll suspect **tirial** , remember?), even if the scum is hit, from then on it is easy cruisin’ for scum. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2213 "2007-06-05T21:46:26Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Sure, assuming either he or you were the one recruited last night. Otherwise, you’re lynching town. Vote **Blaster Master**. And on preview, looks like you’ve already cast your lot. I’d doubt **tirial** was recruited (too obvious), so with you and he voting **Diggit** , I hope it was you that was recruited. Otherwise, there are still two scum who will happily vote to lynch him. [/QUOTE] Well, since you’re still so lynch happy on me, do you care to actually make a case, or is this more of the same “just doesn’t feel right” stuff? The only point I’ve seen, which admittedly doesn’t look good at face value, is my vote for **Projammer** , which I’ve already explained, but would be happy to go into again if you’d like. The bottom line is we only get two wrong lynches and, considering that the recruit will probably be hard to track down, we can’t waste lynches on “gut feelings” against townies. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2214 "2007-06-05T21:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] 1. 3 masons, 2 scum, 2 citizens 2. **tirial** is “officially” off the hook, because it’s “obvious” recruitment took place during this night. 3. Masons have to choose 2 scum against a pool of 3. Sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? However, if it’s actually 1 scum against a pool of 3 (nobody’ll suspect **tirial** , remember?), even if the scum is hit, from then on it is easy cruisin’ for scum. [/QUOTE] You seem to be excluding the possibility of a mason recruitment, or am I missing something? If there were three masons, if the scum were targetting a mason, they had a 60% chance of hitting one, even if they had no lead on them. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2215 "2007-06-05T21:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] You seem to be excluding the possibility of a mason recruitment, or am I missing something? If there were three masons, if the scum were targetting a mason, they had a 60% chance of hitting one, even if they had no lead on them. [/QUOTE] Nope. What I’m saying is, their feint right now would make sense only if they already had recruited **tirial** (hence 3-2-2). A great part of their move would hinge on her having no blame from now on. (the scenario you highlighted is the “current” one) ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2216 "2007-06-05T21:58:13Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] (snip) The only point I’ve seen, which admittedly doesn’t look good at face value, is my vote for **Projammer** , which I’ve already explained, but would be happy to go into again if you’d like. (snip) [/QUOTE] Actually, I’d gladly hear that point, since that’s the only reason why I suspect you (as of now, at least). And it was the one that made **Rachm** slip under my suspici-O-meter, since it allowed him to keep **fluiddruid** as his vote on Day 3. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2217 "2007-06-05T22:16:46Z")
So how many of you think that **tirial** was recruited prior to last night, and her involvement in getting **Rachm** lynched was just a con? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2218 "2007-06-05T22:21:55Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Well, since you’re still so lynch happy on me, do you care to actually make a case, or is this more of the same “just doesn’t feel right” stuff? [/QUOTE] Hardly. The latest tip-off I got was you going along with the “Hal vs. nesta” ploy. But, I knew there were other things, so I decided to do a readthrough of all your recent postings. But something told me to take a look at your voting history first… Wow…just, _wow_…of the remaining players, there are only two who voted for **fluiddruid** , **Lemur** and **Rachm** the day they each swung – **tirial** and yourself. _“Well **Hal** ”_, you say, _“doesn’t that exonerate **Blaster**? If he were scum, would he have voted for **every** one of his teammates?”_ Bet’cher butt…take a look at how known mafia voted the day we lynched scum: Day 4: **fluiddruid** swings, **Lemur** and **Rachm** both vote for her. Day 6: **Lemur** swings, **Rachm** votes for him. **Blaster** , your name slips right in there perfectly, and also goes in when **Rachm** swung. It seems pretty damn clear that the scum have a “vote for our own” policy going on. It makes sense, when you use it _sometimes_. Where they screwed up is in doing it _each and every time one of them fell_. Sorry **Blaster** , I’ll still do by background research, but it’ll take an unbelievably strong case to get my finger off of you. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2219 "2007-06-05T22:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Actually, I’d gladly hear that point, since that’s the only reason why I suspect you (as of now, at least). And it was the one that made **Rachm** slip under my suspici-O-meter, since it allowed him to keep **fluiddruid** as his vote on Day 3. [/QUOTE] Okay, I’ll go through my thought process in that vote switch as best as I can. That said, I’m not going to bother to reiterate my points about why I thought **dnooman** was the likeliest crumb. Why? Simply because I’ve already wasted enough posts rehashing that. If there’s a part of my reasoning you don’t understand, I’ll take it on that way. Going into the third day, IIRC, my general suspicions, in no particular order, were **fluiddruid, Projammer, CaerieD,** and **Lightnin’** ; that list was actually fairly consistent with the general town sentiment at the time. Based on the breadcrumb discussion, prior to going back and doing my own re-read, the idea that **fluiddruid** was a scum crumb was enticing and looked solid enough, which was enough to boost her above the other three, so I voted for her; however, I made it clear that I was still VERY suspicious of **Projammer**. Then came discussion about whether **fluiddruid** was being framed, so I unvoted her while I reconsidered. When I revoted for **fluiddruid** , I also made my point clear that, while I was actually less suspcious of her overall, I could not ignore the potential breadcrumb and I figured we’d get her that day, and lynch **Projammer** the next. So far, so good, right? Well, thanks to her silver tongue (which almost got her saved the next day, even), I was filled with self-doubt about whether it was or was not the right vote and decided to go back and re-read all of **Kyrie** ’s posts and look at the potential crumbs and I was surprised by what I saw. I wish I’d done that in the first place, because it never would have brought this up. As I’d stated in my vote, that it was the crumb potential the pushed **fluiddruid** above **Projammer** , with that compelling evidence lost, I corrected my “icky” feeling by voting for **Projammer** , whom I now had the strongest suspicion of being scum. What I DIDN’T account for, was **CaerieD** following my vote and that I would get blamed for that. So here’s my thoughts. If I were scum, why would I make such a bold and obvious attempt to save **fluiddruid** that would, at best, result in a coin toss and result in a massive amount of suspicion to be cast upon me? Why am I being “held to task” for switching my vote when I provided reasoning (even if you don’t agree with it), while several others plainly ignored the crumb and voted earlier (much like **Lemur** )? Look at the results of the witchhunt from the Projammer bandwagon… **Lightnin’** and _almost_ **CaerieD** if not for **Idle** ’s persistence on **SCL** (…I still can’t figure out why she was night-killed). The scum have been playing us, using the fact that \*\*Projammer \*\* was up against scum to try and put blame on various people which resulted in one townie lynch ( **Lightnin’** ) and almost that of **CaerieD**. Interesting that when **Lemur** was up and **Millit, Hal,** and **Cookies** didn’t vote for him, there’s no push to get them lynched in the way that those “responsible” for Projammer’s death have been pursued. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2220 "2007-06-05T23:17:15Z")
No night kill again? I’d be happy about it, but I can’t see any likely scenario other than recruitment. I think it would be very stupid for them to choose not to kill someone, even if **tirial** was previously recruited. The only other possibility I see is if they haven’t recruited **tirial** and tried to kill her again, but that makes no sense because if they killed someone else **tirial** would still be likely to get lynched for possibly being recruited earlier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=110) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=112)